i always dig stories in video games, even if the gameplay is shit, i still stick through just for the story, which includes all the japanese grindy random battles, i remember just wall clipping through the last few levels of doom to see the ending

To the moon and dear esther had no gameplay or double barrel shotgun but awesome atmosphere and story

Probably the latter; I was seriously burned out yesterday, forgetting words (steeped) and everything. Basically, I saw someone bring up the "why plays games for the story when you could read a book or watch a movie because games are all about gameplay" argument that I've seen a few times before, and I disagreed with the idea that stories aren't important since a good story can carry a game—and better an already-good game—just as well as good mechanics can.

It really seems like we're talking past each other and having two completely different conversations here. I'm not even 100% sure what you're confused about, to be honest. You definitely seem to be confused about my gaming preferences, though, which are more varied than my posts probably indicate. I've finished something like 220-230 games over the past 3 and a half years from all kinds of genres, some focused on stories (Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons, 80 Days, various adventure games) and others focused on gameplay (Terraria, Hitman Go, various puzzle games), so I have plenty of experience with both sides of this and can appreciate games that excel at either. Claiming that games are only about gameplay requires completely ignoring games that aren't, so I felt compelled to disagree, just as I would if someone claimed games are only about their stories. It just strikes me as elitist, "only the things I like are important in games" posturing.

Seems like most people here are just talking about preferences, but you can't base an argument on preferences. Hedwards statement was: A good game can stand on it's own, it can profit from a good story, but doesn't need to. Then most are disagreeing with him on the basis that they like games with good stories and dislike games with bad stories. Hedwards never stated that the perception of games can't be influenced by the story. In fact one of points was that a bad story can diminish the enjoyment of otherwise good gameplay.

I didn't read all the messages, but I fully agree with that statement. So as I said, it is like the music in games. Not necessarily needed (depending quite much on the genre though), but when applied correctly, it can really add to the game.

Like Starcraft. A RTS game with a story? Yet, somehow it worked wonderfully, at least for me, even if most RTS games don't seem to care much for any story, and still they can be great RTS experiences. Starcraft's predecessor was Warcraft 2, and while their gameplay reminds each other quite a lot (even though the setting is different), I don't recall WC2 having any meaningful story either. It was mostly a string of unrelated missions getting progressively harder.


Ps. I sometimes see many suggesting that e.g. RPGs are heavy on the story and really need one to be RPGs. I guess this again how you define an RPG, or what do you think of as a story. I recall Darklands doesn't have much of a story, and I also consider e.g. ADOM as a RPG (of a rogue-like RPG type), and I don't recall it having any meaningful story either. If someone argues roguelikes are not RPGs, then I hit you in the head with Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike

Nowadays though, it seems RPGs normally are quite heavy on the story. They wouldn't necessarily have to be, as examples above show, but they choose to be. In many cases it can make the RPG much more interesting if the story is good, true.

Adventure games... They also usually have detailed stories, but look where they started: ADVENT. What was the story? Find the pirate treasure from the caves, that's it. Is that a story, or merely an objective? Isn't ADVENT an adventure game, because it doesn't have a meaningful story?

It didn't have music either, for that matter. Pretty much all RPGs and adventure games have music nowadays, but that is not really what makes them RPG or adventure games.

Strange wording. :) Hey, hedward is himself talking about his preferences. That doesn't automatically mean he can't enjoy the game with a story, just that he prefers the ones without.


And about comparing Super Mario with anything. That's a non-argument. You can't compare 80's arcade game to the modern games. Unless you are comparing it with a retro nostalgic game. 30 years of technological advances make a large difference. It's pretty natural that we today have the other genres beside arcade. Although, there are still a modern arcade games for those that prefer them.

Anyways, it's not fair to present you preference as a rule. A lot of us enjoy stories in the games and genres we play. A lot of you don't. That's all ok. That's why there are so many different genres and different games. There's a place for everyone of us "under the sun". And your word is not holly, neither are you hollier than others.

You should not have replaced the quote of what I said with dots, as I had too look up my most recent post in this topic (which wasn't even on the same page) to figure out what you were saying.

Then what should our argument based on?

Links to adventure games like Monkey Island / Planescape Torment metacritic rating and say stories can carry the game even thought there gameplay department is lacking.

Then Links to Supreme Commander / C&C / Temple of Elemental Evil metacritic rating and says gameplay can carry the game even though the story department is lacking.

So can we state as fact FOR MANY MANY PEOPLE that Either story or gameplay can carry the game alone, and will be better when both department excel?

We can, but it all depends on the personal preferences. :) Some are not really interested in story at all, the others don't care much about gameplay if the story is good.

And, there are some games and genres with hardly any gameplay. And of course, some games and genres that contain hardly any story.

^This. Games is just an incredibly diverse medium.

Good examples.