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synfresh: I don't worry about Valve's downfall, I have more important things to do like play games that I like.
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PookaMustard: But the games that you bought from Steam are tied to Valve's lifetime. If Valve dies, so do your games.
Like I said, I give zero shits about Valve dying. Can I play any game in my library right this minute? The answer is always yes. So in that respect I'm not losing sleep on if Valve dies.

It's also an assumption on your part that my games will die when Valve dies.
Post edited November 24, 2015 by synfresh
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nightcraw1er.488: I was playing it on the PS3 the other day, as far as I can tell, and didn't get far in just to the first boss quest, its pretty average. Didn't see any level up choices, linear, no real interesting story. It may get better of course, but I canned it a that point as I have too much of a backlog.
Well, playing Diablo and expecting non-linear and rich story it's like playing Need For Speed and expecting an strategy game. Diablo does only one thing and it does it great. In a simple setup, it lets you search for that better piece of gear. That's all there was with all the Diablo games and i can't tell another game that do it as well.

Try playing Path of Exile if you want "level up choices". After you spend 200 hours messing up your 5th champion as what you were thinking that will work it actually does not, you end up mindlessly getting the build that other people recommend.

And trust me, i'm a sucker for DRM-free thing as much as the other guy, but these two games that i just mentioned would be dead without heavy online support.
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PookaMustard: But the games that you bought from Steam are tied to Valve's lifetime. If Valve dies, so do your games.
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synfresh: Like I said, I give zero shits about Valve dying. Can I play any game in my library right this minute? The answer is always yes. So in that respect I'm not losing sleep on if Valve dies.

It's also an assumption on your part that my games will die when Valve dies.
But can you predict whether the future will stay nice and great with Valve still alive to let you play your games? One day, the service may wither and die, and future OSes will not even support whatever outdated stuff Valve uses (if they aren't already outdated) for their DRM.

Its not an assumption. Its based on the fact that Valve had to come out and say that your games will still run after they die. If this was not a worry as you say it is, then they wouldn't have come out and said that. After they die, who knows how you're going to react to that, whether you're going to torrent the dead games or wait till their publishers update them or not, but still.
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PookaMustard: If by chance Windows 14 breaks installers, isn't it feasible that some Steam files 'as is' have a big chance to also break? Just think of it. Installers are more ideal than the mess we have going for today, sure it may not be as really ideal as a zipped file, but its more ideal than relying on servers that could die to install our games.

Confuse? Sorry, but DRM affects installers. Actually stop confusing yourself first.
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PookaMustard: If by chance Windows 14 breaks installers, isn't it feasible that some Steam files 'as is' have a big chance to also break? Just think of it. Installers are more ideal than the mess we have going for today, sure it may not be as really ideal as a zipped file, but its more ideal than relying on servers that could die to install our games.

Confuse? Sorry, but DRM affects installers. Actually stop confusing yourself first.
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amok:
What's the point you're trying to deliver? Even bolding the parts you're so suspicious of isn't doing anything useful for anyone.
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synfresh: Like I said, I give zero shits about Valve dying. Can I play any game in my library right this minute? The answer is always yes. So in that respect I'm not losing sleep on if Valve dies.

It's also an assumption on your part that my games will die when Valve dies.
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PookaMustard: But can you predict whether the future will stay nice and great with Valve still alive to let you play your games? One day, the service may wither and die, and future OSes will not even support whatever outdated stuff Valve uses (if they aren't already outdated) for their DRM.

Its not an assumption. Its based on the fact that Valve had to come out and say that your games will still run after they die. If this was not a worry as you say it is, then they wouldn't have come out and said that. After they die, who knows how you're going to react to that, whether you're going to torrent the dead games or wait till their publishers update them or not, but still.
You don't understand. I'm not trying to predict the future. The future will happen when it happens. The simple fact of the matter is that games that I own and have owned for many years on the platform are still playable today. And also as of today I haven't seen anything that indicates that Valve is going bankrupt say.....tomorrow, next week, next month or even next year. What happens after that will happen. I've got better things to do with my time then tinfoil hat the idea that Valve may or may not go under and Steam may or may not go under and then access to my library may or may not be possible. I own an iphone, do you think every time I put an app on my phone that I'm contemplating the pros and cons on if Apple decides to implode?

What I'm also trying to tell you is my way of thinking, that's how most people think. It's about now. It's about enjoying the hobby. I can say without question that I am enjoying my hobby now, just like I enjoyed by hobby 10 years ago and even 20 years ago, despite the fact I own games (and systems) that cannot and will not run now for a variety of reasons. And I'm ok with that.
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nightcraw1er.488: I was playing it on the PS3 the other day, as far as I can tell, and didn't get far in just to the first boss quest, its pretty average. Didn't see any level up choices, linear, no real interesting story. It may get better of course, but I canned it a that point as I have too much of a backlog.
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mindblast: Well, playing Diablo and expecting non-linear and rich story it's like playing Need For Speed and expecting an strategy game. Diablo does only one thing and it does it great. In a simple setup, it lets you search for that better piece of gear. That's all there was with all the Diablo games and i can't tell another game that do it as well.

Try playing Path of Exile if you want "level up choices". After you spend 200 hours messing up your 5th champion as what you were thinking that will work it actually does not, you end up mindlessly getting the build that other people recommend.

And trust me, i'm a sucker for DRM-free thing as much as the other guy, but these two games that i just mentioned would be dead without heavy online support.
Well, both Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 had far better stories than the third, and felt more open than this one. So it was squares, arranged differently in D2, this is really a path through, very little in the way of exploration. D1/2 allows you to customise your character by choosing skills and putting points in, I didn't see this at all in D3, just a note saying I had advanced a level. So in my opinion D3 is a step back from the previous two. I don't play anything online so don't know this Path of Exile.
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synfresh: And I'm ok with that.
Sorry, but I'm in disagreement of plastering your way of life onto everything in life. There are some things that we enjoy until its over, and some that we worry about for its death no matter when it will descend, and Valve's Steam is one of these things I worry about when trying to 'enjoy' it, if not for the service's own downfall then for the service's reliance on the internet which I lost for a solid 5 months due to a replacement in the infrastructure and then my woes with the telephone company themselves.

I got a library full of games, and suddenly during that period, I was unable to repair, or properly play the titles as intended, and then later, the games were just unable to be played because of the DRM its tied to. That's how I'm more invested into GOG.com now. I tried enjoying what little good I have felt was there in Steam despite the updates being not actually useful improvements to the systems but more like new floors for a collapsing building with poor pillars, but then the internet went off. Boom. Games I could perfectly play before on as many a system, were suddenly not working on said systems. That's why thinking to live ALL of life out is not the way to go. You enjoy some stuff till its end, and you avoid others because of that. In gaming, why should I be afraid of a service's death if the old way allows me to enjoy it as long as I can maintain it for future operating systems?

It may be that my gaming content will be available today. But it might disappear tomorrow, and not because of carelessness on my part or anything, but because a factor I have no control of can disappear. Besides my own life, I better have control of what can appear and what can disappear, and in gaming, this is possible if I avoid Steam and the likes. Why should I leave control to a factor I can't control when I can otherwise control my content?
Post edited November 24, 2015 by PookaMustard
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synfresh: And I'm ok with that.
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PookaMustard: Sorry, but I'm in disagreement of plastering your way of life onto everything in life. There are some things that we enjoy until its over, and some that we worry about for its death no matter when it will descend, and Valve's Steam is one of these things I worry about when trying to 'enjoy' it, if not for the service's own downfall then for the service's reliance on the internet which I lost for a solid 5 months due to a replacement in the infrastructure and then my woes with the telephone company themselves.

I got a library full of games, and suddenly during that period, I was unable to repair, or properly play the titles as intended, and then later, the games were just unable to be played because of the DRM its tied to. That's how I'm more invested into GOG.com now. I tried enjoying what little good I have felt was there in Steam despite the updates being not actually useful improvements to the systems but more like new floors for a collapsing building with poor pillars, but then the internet went off. Boom. Games I could perfectly play before on as many a system, were suddenly not working on said systems. That's why thinking to live ALL of life out is not the way to go. You enjoy some stuff till its end, and you avoid others because of that. In gaming, why should I be afraid of a service's death if the old way allows me to enjoy it as long as I can maintain it for future operating systems?

It may be that my gaming content will be available today. But it might disappear tomorrow, and not because of carelessness on my part or anything, but because a factor I have no control of can disappear. Besides my own life, I better have control of what can appear and what can disappear, and in gaming, this is possible if I avoid Steam and the likes. Why should I leave control to a factor I can't control when I can otherwise control my content?
That's great for you, everyone enjoys their hobby differently. Doesn't mean I have to agree to it or even follow it though. You said yourself that you had a negative experience where DRM caused you to not be able to access your games. I'll admit if I had the same experience over that length of time (5 months) I might view things as you. But I haven't. I've never had any issue accessing my games on Steam, even in the times when I had no internet (offline mode). A vast majority of people who use Steam also have not had those problems. If they did guess what, most people wouldn't use Steam because it wouldn't be reliable. People (including myself) deal with Steam if for nothing else because it's DRM has not negatively affected us. What happens down the road is what happens. Something you bought (could be anything) could become non-functional 10 years from now with no support and you would have no control over it. Will that still stop you from buying anything?

Again I bring up the iphone example. The phone (and it's app store) will probably be replaced by something newer and better 10-15 years from now and you won't have the ability to use it. It's not stopping anyone from buying Iphones. Doom and Gloom and 'what-if' scenarios aren't going to stop people from buying on Steam. Negative experiences will. You had one. Others have too. But understand that is a small minority, smaller than even the DRM-Free crowd itself.
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amok: This has no impact om DRM or DRM free.

A step forward for game preservation, though.
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dewtech: THIS!

Somewhat reminds me the promise Valve gave people, that if Steam went down they would give owners of the games "cracks" that enabled to play the games if Steam would fail.
Steam went down multiple times. I did not see any "".
Maybe Newell is a "".
Post edited November 24, 2015 by AlienMind
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PookaMustard: Valve still alive to let you play your games? One day, the service may wither and die,
More likely are total vendor lock-in and stranglehold of customers liberties and data mining and pricing due monopolization. But sheep will only not like it when it's too late and even on the way to the guillotine will not run away and say it's alright because it's investment is already too large to bail now.
But I will stand in the crowd and cheer when the head rolls, because it's the least I can do.
Mwahahahaha
Post edited November 24, 2015 by AlienMind
I wonder if there are people that are sitting on an box, warning others about the Steam's Judgement Day.

This kind of paranoia it's not justified. I have 1100 games on Steam and i don't worry about these things. I would be no safer if i would keep the games on HDDs, those pieces of equipment can broke much faster than Steam servers. And even if i do backups to backups, i might lose them in the next earthquake, flood or locust invasion. Not to mention aliens or vampires. In any case, i prefer enjoying the games right now instead of thinking about tomorrow. I own games on almost all platforms, Steam, GOG, Uplay, Origin, Desura, Battle.net, and i don't think about them going down, yea, not even Desura.

As long as Steam will generate profits, unless something really bad happens, like war (but then who the hell cares about games anymore?), it will exist. Even if Valve files for bankruptcy tomorrow, another company will buy them, because Steam can generate profit.
Imho it should not only be legal to crack it, the companies should be obligated to release a patch that removes the DRM if it breaks the game completely (including the case of offline servers).
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PookaMustard: Valve still alive to let you play your games? One day, the service may wither and die,
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AlienMind: More likely are total vendor lock-in and stranglehold of customers liberties and data mining and pricing due monopolization. But sheep will only not like it when it's too late and even on the way to the guillotine will not run away and say it's alright because it's investment is already too large to bail now.
But I will stand in the crowd and cheer when the head rolls, because it's the least I can do.
Mwahahahaha
You keep waiting for Judgement day, meanwhile I'll keep playing the games I want to play when I want to play them.
Sitting on a box? No. Feeling good about not being part of the problem? Hell yeah!