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General discussionUpcoming update to GOG.com policies(465 posts)(465 posts)
(465 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted January 06, 2015
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shmerl: rather than suggesting that nothing should be changed, including GOG's own rules.
And I never suggested anything like that; like I said a gazillion and a half times now : nothing wrong with asking as long as it is done rationally and calmly.
Posted January 06, 2015
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Tomkel:
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Cavalary: And again: "Folks have been conned into thinking they can't change the world, have to accept what is. I'll tell you something my friends. The world is changing every day, the only question is who's doing it."

What you said will be the result if we'll accept it, and it currently is the direction things are heading in because most do just that.
I completely agree with you, and my observation also serves as a warning.

I blog about this stuff on other sites using a different screen name, but I try not to get too political on GOG because this is where I come to have fun. I don't like to stir the hornets nest here.

Changing things is hard to near impossible.

The west, which includes USA, western Europe, Australia, Canada, and all of their allies is a farce of the democratic/republic system of government. It is really a corporate plutocracy. Basically a capitalist dictatorship and the primary means of control is mind control by the media and economic terrorism.

The East, namely China and Russia, is more heavy handed and cruel, but more honest. They are just a dictatorship by dicks! They control people at gun point.

The developing and third world all fall under the boot of oppression of one of the other two systems.

So no matter where you live, you will suffer from some kind of injustice.

We average working class living under the capitalist dictatorship of the west can fight the trend, but our politicians have already found ways to circumvent the people. Take the USA for example. We passed healthcare for everyone, and the rich paid their lobbyists and politicians to rewrite the law and twist it so much that it is doomed to fail. Instead of being a benefit, the rich have turned it into a disaster so now the people it was meant to help will shout for the law to be repealed.

The same thing happened with the market reforms after 2008. Many laws were passed to make the financial markets better for most Americans, but the big money people got in with their lobbyists and paid politicians to rewrite the laws. Things today are just as screwed up as before, nothing has changed.

From what I read, the EU is just as bad if not worse. The will of the people is always ignored and twisted by the people with the money and the power.

We can and should fight it, but unless more people wake up to the truth we are fighting a losing battle.
Posted January 06, 2015
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Tomkel: The same thing happened with the market reforms after 2008. Many laws were passed to make the financial markets better for most Americans, but the big money people got in with their lobbyists and paid politicians to rewrite the laws. Things today are just as screwed up as before, nothing has changed.
People can't blame the system alone that it happened if they didn't pay attention. Paying attention is hard however, especially with tons of pundits spreading nonsense on purpose. Here is a very good comic about it: http://economixcomix.com/home/tpp/
Post edited January 06, 2015 by shmerl
Posted January 06, 2015
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Tomkel: From what I read, the EU is just as bad if not worse. The will of the people is always ignored and twisted by the people with the money and the power.
It's not that bad, there is hope everywhere, also (or especially?) in the EU. The EU court strengthened the user rights by a ruling that ownership is transferred also on "digitally only" software sales, despite what customer unfriendly EULAs mumble about "licensed, not sold" & would like to suggest. The court noted that if it accepted Oracle's argument, then "suppliers would merely have to call the contract a ‘license’ rather than a ‘sale’ in order to circumvent the rule of exhaustion and divest it of all scope." "From an economic point of view, the sale of a computer program on CD-ROM or DVD and the sale of a program by downloading from the internet are similar," the court ruled. "The on-line transmission method is the functional equivalent of the supply of a material medium."
Post edited January 06, 2015 by shaddim
Posted January 07, 2015
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Tomkel:
Sure, probably a losing battle, but one not fought is lost by default.
And things aren't (yet) as bad in the EU as in the US. They are getting there though, and (also referring to shmerl's link) the TPIP would sure speed things along that route, but there's definitely a better starting point here still...
(Incidentally, this also makes it... interesting to note how this agreement says that it's governed by US laws for US users, and Cyprus laws for the rest.)
Post edited January 07, 2015 by Cavalary
Posted January 07, 2015
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Cavalary: And things aren't (yet) as bad in the EU as in the US. They are getting there though, and (also referring to shmerl's link) the TPIP would sure speed things along that route, but there's definitely a better starting point here still...
To clarify, that comic was about TPP (Trans Pacifc treaty), not about TPIP, but it's not very far off - a lot of the same garbage is in both.
Posted January 07, 2015
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Cavalary: And things aren't (yet) as bad in the EU as in the US. They are getting there though, and (also referring to shmerl's link) the TPIP would sure speed things along that route, but there's definitely a better starting point here still...
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shmerl: To clarify, that comic was about TPP (Trans Pacifc treaty), not about TPIP, but it's not very far off - a lot of the same garbage is in both.
Ah, yeah, sorry about that, results of quick reading sometimes...
Posted January 07, 2015
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Tomkel: The same thing happened with the market reforms after 2008. Many laws were passed to make the financial markets better for most Americans, but the big money people got in with their lobbyists and paid politicians to rewrite the laws. Things today are just as screwed up as before, nothing has changed.
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shmerl: People can't blame the system alone that it happened if they didn't pay attention. Paying attention is hard however, especially with tons of pundits spreading nonsense on purpose. Here is a very good comic about it: http://economixcomix.com/home/tpp/
I loved the comic, awesome!

Everyone should check it out.
Posted January 07, 2015
So this is starting to turn into kind of a shitstorm it seems. This thread has been linked on reddit without proper context and timeline being explained and it sounds like gog.com is doing this all at once recently, and that it is foreboding as part of some change in gog's methods.

The TOS change was ages ago, and more influenced by Galaxy than anything.

The new installers were already explained, and already worked around for linux users, and gog has said it doesn't have major plans to undo those workarounds.
Posted January 07, 2015
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johnnygoging: So this is starting to turn into kind of a shitstorm it seems. This thread has been linked on reddit without proper context and timeline being explained and it sounds like gog.com is doing this all at once recently, and that it is foreboding as part of some change in gog's methods.

The TOS change was ages ago, and more influenced by Galaxy than anything.

The new installers were already explained, and already worked around for linux users, and gog has said it doesn't have major plans to undo those workarounds.
I guess the more GOG will ignore this, the more likely it can turn into an outrage.

And this wasn't ages ago - it was proposed in November. That's pretty recent, and as far as I know it's not in effect yet. Even if it is, it's not a reason not to point out to GOG what is wrong about it.

Installer thing was explained completely unsatisfactory. Nothing official was said by GOG about it (i.e. in light of its DRMness), just reasoning of the packaging team developer. Workaround which is a positive thing technically is still forbidden by the combination of this TOS + anticircumvention laws. While I agree that there is no reason to expect GOG to go after anyone who would apply that, again it's not a reason not to ask to fix all this mess. Especially since any number of similar issues can come up later. I.e. it's a bout fixing a bad potential.
Post edited January 07, 2015 by shmerl
Posted January 07, 2015
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johnnygoging: So this is starting to turn into kind of a shitstorm it seems. This thread has been linked on reddit without proper context and timeline being explained and it sounds like gog.com is doing this all at once recently, and that it is foreboding as part of some change in gog's methods.

The TOS change was ages ago, and more influenced by Galaxy than anything.

The new installers were already explained, and already worked around for linux users, and gog has said it doesn't have major plans to undo those workarounds.
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shmerl: I guess the more GOG will ignore this, the more likely it can turn into an outrage.

And this wasn't ages ago - it was proposed in November. That's pretty recent, and as far as I know it's not in effect yet. Even if it is, it's not a reason not to point out to GOG what is wrong about it.

Installer thing was explained completely unsatisfactory. Nothing official was said by GOG about it (i.e. in light of its DRMness), just reasoning of the packaging team developer. Workaround which is a positive thing technically is still forbidden by the combination of this TOS + anticircumvention laws. While I agree that there is no reason to expect GOG to go after anyone who do that, again it's not a reason not to ask to fix all this mess.
I thought you were after the installers being restored to their original form. I see you're after almost unprecedented legal terms for a software company. With Galaxy on the horizon, and hopefully newer games along with it, there's a lot of food for thought in what the kind of changes you're asking for will mean.
Posted January 07, 2015
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johnnygoging: I thought you were after the installers being restored to their original form
Yes, after that too. Not necessarily original form though - just any DRM-free form, preferably in accessible interoperable formats.

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johnnygoging: I see you're after almost unprecedented legal terms for a software company. With Galaxy on the horizon, and hopefully newer games along with it, there's a lot of food for thought in what the kind of changes you're asking for will mean.
Not really. The amount of garbage EULAs around which take away users' rights doesn't make it unprecedented to ask fixing the mess, and it's related to DRM issues as was explained in this post in detail. So it's not any more "unprecedented" than being DRM-free in general. In the current sick legal climate, being DRM-free requires some effort.
Post edited January 07, 2015 by shmerl
Posted January 07, 2015
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johnnygoging: So this is starting to turn into kind of a shitstorm it seems. This thread has been linked on reddit without proper context and timeline being explained and it sounds like gog.com is doing this all at once recently, and that it is foreboding as part of some change in gog's methods.

The TOS change was ages ago, and more influenced by Galaxy than anything.

The new installers were already explained, and already worked around for linux users, and gog has said it doesn't have major plans to undo those workarounds.
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shmerl: I guess the more GOG will ignore this, the more likely it can turn into an outrage.

And this wasn't ages ago - it was proposed in November. That's pretty recent, and as far as I know it's not in effect yet. Even if it is, it's not a reason not to point out to GOG what is wrong about it.

Installer thing was explained completely unsatisfactory. Nothing official was said by GOG about it (i.e. in light of its DRMness), just reasoning of the packaging team developer. Workaround which is a positive thing technically is still forbidden by the combination of this TOS + anticircumvention laws. While I agree that there is no reason to expect GOG to go after anyone who would apply that, again it's not a reason not to ask to fix all this mess. Especially since any number of similar issues can come up later. I.e. it's a bout fixing a bad potential.
Why not? It's worked for them in the past. I think it was the region pricing they came in made a few condescending remarks making the thing blow up in their face and just waiting for a couple months for things to cool down without any replies or indication that they were even reading the thread.

I largely stopped buying games after that. I think I bought a handful, but enough people were willing to allow pirates in Russia to dictate Russians getting preferential treatment as people in Eastern Europe got lumped in with wealthier countries in Western Europe that they were able to get away with it.

I think that's why they're having to limit gifts, but it's complete bullshit that Mr. Gog keeps lying to us and treating us like children.

I'm not sure I'm going to be buying any more games here regardless of whether or not they fix the mess. It's pretty clear that if they clean it up now that they'll likely reinstitute them after the outrage is over. They have precisely no credibility or integrity left. Valve doesn't either, but Valve was never pretending to be on the side of gamers.
Posted January 07, 2015
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hedwards: Why not? It's worked for them in the past. I think it was the region pricing they came in made a few condescending remarks making the thing blow up in their face and just waiting for a couple months for things to cool down without any replies or indication that they were even reading the thread.
GOG answered the request about RAR passwords, and they'll remove them and will use something that's not DRM to address Gowor's concerns.

Regarding the TOS - since it's a legal matter (and as GOG reps pointed out they just returned to work today) it will probably require them to consult with their legal team. So don't be hasty.
Posted January 07, 2015
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shmerl: Regarding the TOS - since it's a legal matter (and as GOG reps pointed out they just returned to work today) it will probably require them to consult with their legal team. So don't be hasty.
I'm just thinking, if the best approach could be if the community would give to GOG a consensual counter-proposal of a TOS with reasonable formulations where the issues are addressed already ....

How we could organize that? We have already some proposals floating around for some parts...
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionUpcoming update to GOG.com policies(465 posts)(465 posts)
(465 posts)