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EverNightX: I don't know of anything comprehensive. Off the top of my head I think Rayman Origins, Pathfinder, cuphead, Mimimi games (like Desperados III), and Solasta.
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neumi5694: Here are some: House Party, Beat Saber, Death's Door, Pillars of Eternity, Superhot, Kerbal Space Program, Ghost of a Tale, Return Of The Obra Dinn, Cuphead, Hollow Knight, 99 Levels to Hell, FAR Lone Sails, My Friend Pedro
Thanks! Some of those I really like, it would be a shame if developers got negatively impacted by people wanting to enjoy those games a few more times, so long after the purchase. Heck, if this had happened with a game like Bloodlines 1, I might have sunk Ubisoft by myself. XD XD XD
Well, I am not going to lie, this situation made me very very sad. :/

I would like to receive some personal guidance "what now?" for the game project I'm working on but I'm not sure if I should ask about it here (as it can be easily buried under other subject-related posts) or maybe posting separate topic will be much better idea.
Post edited September 15, 2023 by Lexor
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dtgreene: Do you have a better source for that news? One that doesn't auto-play video, and preferably one that's text-focused rather than video-focused?
Not really sure what you mean. If it's ads that bother you, just use adblock or something like NewPipe on a phone. It's just a video talking about the latest features in version 5.3 with in-engine demonstrations.

If you want it in text form, here is their roadmap which briefly describes the new additions in 5.3:
https://portal.productboard.com/epicgames/1-unreal-engine-public-roadmap/tabs/88-unreal-engine-5-3

Or if you want it all, here's the release notes:
https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.3/en-US/unreal-engine-5.3-release-notes/
Post edited September 15, 2023 by idbeholdME
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dtgreene: Do you have a better source for that news? One that doesn't auto-play video, and preferably one that's text-focused rather than video-focused?
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idbeholdME: Not really sure what you mean. If it's ads that bother you, just use adblock or something like NewPipe on a phone. It's just a video talking about the latest features in version 5.3 with in-engine demonstrations.

If you want it in text form, here is their roadmap which briefly describes the new additions in 5.3:
https://portal.productboard.com/epicgames/1-unreal-engine-public-roadmap/tabs/88-unreal-engine-5-3

Or if you want it all, here's the release notes:
https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.3/en-US/unreal-engine-5.3-release-notes/
Text form is what I was looking for.

Thing is, I really prefer text over videos for most things. (About the only exception is watching videos of video games being played.)

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Lexor: Well, I am not going to lie, this situation made me very very sad. :/

I would like to receive some personal guidance "what now?" for the game project I'm working on but I'm not sure if I should ask about it here (as it can be easily buried under other subject-related posts) or maybe posting separate topic will be much better idea.
Might be better for a separate topic, but my default recommendation would be Godot.
Post edited September 15, 2023 by dtgreene
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dtgreene: Do you have a better source for that news? One that doesn't auto-play video, and preferably one that's text-focused rather than video-focused?
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idbeholdME: Not really sure what you mean. If it's ads that bother you, just use adblock or something like NewPipe on a phone. It's just a video talking about the latest features in version 5.3 with in-engine demonstrations.
Totally get it since I very rarely click on youtube links posted in this forum.
That said, just want to add that NewPipe is available for Windows and Linux and most Browsers have a setting to block autoplay videos.
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amok: 1 -

2 -

3 -

4 -

5 -
6 - Now that Unity is taxing per installation, the devs themselves, might want to know how many installs have been done. Games that had no reason for telemetry and data collecting will start to implement it and send to several parties.
GOG will do as the cool kids do and take the chance to implement such a feature as well.

Wouldn't be nice to install a game, launch it, just to have 3-5 prompts of TOS walls of text from different parties?

How would that work? First you phone home, only then you show the TOS?
Post edited September 15, 2023 by Dark_art_
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amok: 5 - Games may be removed from player accounts.
I am praying for it to happen.

Valve, ironicaly, might get involved in this one.
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amok: which gives you a key to unlick the full game.
Sorry for being that guy, just couldn't resist :P
Post edited September 15, 2023 by Dark_art_
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eric5h5: That's...not how any of this works, at all, for any engine. There's no "internal Unity format" or anything.
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rtcvb32: You've obviously never done programming before.
ROFL!

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eric5h5: When considering compressed textures <snip>
They likely store blobs of data (textures, graphics, videos, animations, etc, if you use SQL databases you'd understand Blobs) that would probably be copied verbatim. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about absolutely huge files that compress to like 20Mb. Not textures, or data.
So what do you think these files store if not textures or data? Why don't you look inside?

So trying to find a good example here i found The order of 12. 530Mb big, but i have it stored as 46Mb in a 7z file. Even recompressing as a zip (so each file has it's own compression ratio data unrelated to others, weaker compression but still relevant) you can see a huge amount of... likely empty unused space. Why can't that unused space just get removed to reduce the game to say 100Mb? I don't know.
How did you arrive to the conclusion that they are storing empty unused space as opposed to textures, normals, audio, or whatever data?

It doesn't sound like you have any idea about what they store but you sure like to criticize..

And it doesn't sound like you understood eric5h5's explanation at all. HInt: if you want to stream textures in a format the GPU understands -- directly from the HD -- DON'T COMPRESS THE TEXTURE with 7z or anything else. Yes, storing textures in a format that the GPU can directly use does typically result in files that could be compressed further with entropy coding. It's a tradeoff.

Same goes for everything else. I might want to make levels that you can directly mmap. Wastes HD space? Yes. Is simple to implement and fast? Usually yes.
Post edited September 15, 2023 by clarry
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Lucian_Galca: Gog is already having trouble getting some games, and even getting devs to keep them updated with content and bugfixes. This will make that worse for sure.
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EverNightX: Why would it effect GOG any different than any other seller?
Because a lot of games simply don't sell as much here as on Steam. We've already had some games pulled, not getting updated, or just outright not released here because of that alone, and with devs now facing Unity's "install tax", some will probably drop gog rather than spend the extra time and resources releasing and maintaining the gog versions.
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Lucian_Galca: Because a lot of games simply don't sell as much here as on Steam.
I don't think that would matter. There's no additional work to be done just because Unity charges more. And I really doubt GOG takes more than the 30% Valve does on sale. It's probably the same. So I think the calculus would simply be is it still profitable to continue selling the game with a Unity Engine or not regardless of where it is sold.

So if you were not going to release on GOG that would still be the case, but if you were, I don't think Unity's change would alter that.
Post edited September 15, 2023 by EverNightX
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amok: 5 - Games may be removed from player accounts. The retroactive fees means that after January, sucessful indie games will be punished and we may see them removed before then.
Most contractual agreements between the publisher and distributor (Steam / GOG, etc) don't just give the publisher the right to randomly demand the distributor force delete the games from people's accounts (who've paid for it) purely because they have separate billing issues with another partner. The only time I've ever seen that happen was when the publishing contract was deemed void for fraud (I can't remember the name but there was one game on Steam that got removed and deleted because the people who uploaded it didn't have the rights to sell / publish it). A billing disagreement between the publisher and whatever game engine licenser doesn't mean the publisher gets to break a completely separate publishing contract to 'compensate'.

The correct way of publishers dealing with this is a class action lawsuit vs Unity with the goal of having the court declaring the combination of "charge per install, retroactive installs included" billing + lack of transparency in how Unity claim to be 'counting' them as an "unfair contract". Then they can just legally refuse to pay and Unity would have no choice but to go back to the drawing board.
Post edited September 15, 2023 by AB2012
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clarry: So what do you think these files store if not textures or data? Why don't you look inside?
Well taking a raw look, there's an awful lot of zeros. About what i expected.

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clarry: How did you arrive to the conclusion that they are storing empty unused space as opposed to textures, normals, audio, or whatever data?
Because data tends not to be so highly compressible. What's highly compressible is long strings of identical characters.. like 0's, or heavy repeats of sequences.

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clarry: ROFL!
Ever written your own huffman code, store and load it and compress/decompress data on the fly?
Attachments:
level0.png (13 Kb)
level15.png (10 Kb)
Post edited September 15, 2023 by rtcvb32
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AB2012: The correct way of publishers dealing with this is a class action lawsuit vs Unity with the goal of having the court declaring the combination of "charge per install, retroactive installs included" billing + lack of transparency in how Unity claim to be 'counting' them as an "unfair contract". Then they can just legally refuse to pay and Unity would have no choice but to go back to the drawing board.
Yes, but I imagine the plan for Unity at the current juncture is to go bankrupt before any real legal disputes happen.
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mdqp: Is there a list of which games here on GOG use Unity? Perhaps I should download the installers now, and make a list so I can check if they connect onlne, and block them if they do.
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neumi5694: Here are some: House Party, Beat Saber, Death's Door, Pillars of Eternity, Superhot, Kerbal Space Program, Ghost of a Tale, Return Of The Obra Dinn, Cuphead, Hollow Knight, 99 Levels to Hell, FAR Lone Sails, My Friend Pedro
I suspect that they don't dial home during the GOG install process necessarily but at the point in time they write registry data ( or it's other OS equivalent ) for the first time because it records at least some pirate installs and those don't usually use an installer. So you'd probably have to block the Program executable or whatever DLL Unity uses to call home for each game
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neumi5694: Here are some: House Party, Beat Saber, Death's Door, Pillars of Eternity, Superhot, Kerbal Space Program, Ghost of a Tale, Return Of The Obra Dinn, Cuphead, Hollow Knight, 99 Levels to Hell, FAR Lone Sails, My Friend Pedro
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Kalanyr: I suspect that they don't dial home during the GOG install process necessarily but at the point in time they write registry data ( or it's other OS equivalent ) for the first time because it records at least some pirate installs and those don't usually use an installer. So you'd probably have to block the Program executable or whatever DLL Unity uses to call home for each game
Most Unity games I got in my library will try to open a connection to servers that belong to Unity (according to the IP) every time they start.
Many do so when they crash too.

For some you can turn it of in the options, for some not.
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EverNightX: I know this is CRAZY, but hear me out.

What if the people who made games actually...knew how to make games? Then they would not have to use someone else's engine.
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rtcvb32: Because building an engine is difficult. Kinda like asking to start a taxi service, but you don't want to buy a car for it, so just build it... go ahead, back yard, get to it....

I don't know about you, but writing using trigonometry to get 3D graphics, adding textures, as well as bounds checking, writing your own interrupts to handle sound and music, then attaching that to work with Vulcan DirectX and OpenGL, then on top of that making a game to go with it, aka sounds, music, models, animations, and then the core logic, AI reactions, etc. And if you really want to build from scratch, write your own compiler and own language(s) to go with it, and your own libraries and toolkits.

These common 'engines' are at this point considered part of 'the wheel' i would think at this point. They say don't reinvent the wheel. Even in the mid 90's there were software packages including 80% of basically the DOOM engine to get your started to make your own FPS games.

edit: You know i'd agree with you if it was back in the MS-DOS days. You didn't need special hardware drivers to switch to graphics modes, or anything to handle timing. It literally set a few registers, call specific interrupt, the BIOS would take over and switch graphics, then you are given an address (B0000-CFFFF if i remember right) and you write your pixels onto the screen memory buffer and it would automatically copy to the screen on the next refresh. You set a timer to go off on a counter which would be your timer, which at it's slowest was like 16hz (i'd have to check).

Most models like in Mechwarrior likely had mech models with like 30-40 polygons, and checking if a hit had to be considered was just a box around the mech before getting into more detailed checks. And you could forego or include some textures and it wasn't a big deal.

I think you seriously underestimate what is needed just to get the framework working, before actually working on a game. And if you have to spend 1-2 years building an engine before you start on your game, you likely will get burned out LONG before you finish it.
Personally I lament a lot of the skillset that has been lost that many WESTERN devs. don't have. They are used to working on a standardized PC framework, not the RISC custom stuff on consoles and arcades. They're going to have learn to work on RISCV architecture soon enough so we can really eek out the most performance.
Sadly many don't know how to make an arcade game that really hits the spot and the garbage that Raw Thrills puts out doesn't count.
edit: Someone reminded me here. Given that CDPR is moving to UE, please leave Lumen OFF or figure out a way to turn it off in our options menu. Use Nanite and RT together instead as there is no way in hell that I am going to run DLSS or FSR to play the same at a serviceable framerate at a HD res.
Post edited September 15, 2023 by Sarang