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Orkhepaj: sounds reasonable and fun
I bet the experience is completely different from online play
It's the best way to play MP games, IMO. I got back into online MP because of covid and my kids moving out but now that locals are open. I going back to weekend LAN events and playing locally with my family and friends.

Online in the current state (2005 to present) is trash.
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so does that mean, that i just map the shoot button on my keyboard, install the engine and then play my fps games with one hand and use my other hand for food consumption? sounds very interesting.
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MeowCanuck: Thoughts?
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AB2012: My only thought is this is reason #357 which I stopped caring about online multi-player games. DRM, lootboxes, micro-transactions, "surprise mechanics", trolls, squeakers, griefers, attention seekers, obnoxious cult-like communities, invasive anti-cheat systems, etc, all seem to be the norm rather than the exception these days even in games without cheating. Multi-player is definitely not the fun it used to be vs both local "hot-seat" games or LAN Parties (where you generally knew everyone and the main purpose of getting together was to have a laugh rather than deal with the emotional baggage of some strangers chronic insecurity and over obsession with "muh online stay-tus"). Online multi-player has pretty much followed social media in general off the cliff and into the gutter.
This, basically. I started typing my own post and realised I'm just repeating what you said. Once the days of getting together for Lan parties or in Internet Cafes to play some MoH or Battlefield 1942 were gone, my interest in any kind of multiplayer basically died. The only game I ever play multi these days is Worms World Party hot seat once in a blue moon :P Todays online multiplayer scene only confuses and creeps me out for all the reasons you listed.
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This is why you should only play games too old to hack!
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Good discussion, +1 to everyone else.

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apehater: so does that mean, that i just map the shoot button on my keyboard, install the engine and then play my fps games with one hand and use my other hand for food consumption? sounds very interesting.
You still need WASD to move and to turn around with your mouse. But you can probably put chips in between your fingers with your mouse hand as long as your wrist sits on top of your mouse and controls the macro movements of your vision.
Post edited July 24, 2021 by MeowCanuck
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I'm not buying the premise that there is such a thing as an "undetectable" hack. Rather, I call BS on that, and declare it to be a false premise.
Post edited July 24, 2021 by Ancient-Red-Dragon
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: I'm not buying the premise that there is such a thing as an "undetectable" hack. Rather, I call BS on that, and declare it to be a false premise.
The setup I described is the safest way of going undetected games can't really detect what goes on in the 2nd streaming PC. If you open the hack from the gaming PC, then yes, it's possible for the game to detect that you have the hack on and can autoban.

The simplest solution would be for the game to detect if you have a capture card or streaming programs running. That probably could work for ranked ladder matches, but it also kills the free Twitch and Youtube marketing you get from streamers and their followers.

Another solution would be to collect KPIs on speeds and delays from the highest skilled players and set ceiling detections on the players' speeds and autoban anyone who exceeds frequently. However, it can be circumvented easily as you can see the program by adjusting the milliseconds in delay. Would be easy for cheaters to throw in some RNG seed to 'scramble' the delay so it's not always precisely the same amount. This is why the proposed counter-AI to watch players and monitor their stats is the only effective solution to this unless some CS students / IT people have any other insights to this.

AB2012, Arcadius-8606, and Breja are correct in that going forward, sanctioned tournaments must only be done in-person to avoid all cheating. But if there's no casual audience to buy the game in the first place and practice with others at an eSports level, that kills the game's product life and profitability. That's why this topic is very concerning.

EDIT: Hell, I don't see why this couldn't be tweaked for MOBA games either with a little effort.
Post edited July 24, 2021 by MeowCanuck
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MeowCanuck: :correction:
- Some speculate this could be the death of the online multiplayer FPS genre
SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!
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Strijkbout: SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!
can I? lmao
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MeowCanuck: - Some speculate this could be the death of the FPS genre
Good.
Post edited July 24, 2021 by Crosmando
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MeowCanuck: - Some speculate this could be the death of the FPS genre
I agree with that.. . FPS kind gives me headache every time don't know why..
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MeowCanuck: - Some speculate this could be the death of the FPS genre
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Lords3: I agree with that.. . FPS kind gives me headache every time don't know why..
probably low fps or fov

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MeowCanuck: Good discussion, +1 to everyone else.

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apehater: so does that mean, that i just map the shoot button on my keyboard, install the engine and then play my fps games with one hand and use my other hand for food consumption? sounds very interesting.
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MeowCanuck: You still need WASD to move and to turn around with your mouse. But you can probably put chips in between your fingers with your mouse hand as long as your wrist sits on top of your mouse and controls the macro movements of your vision.
no you dont , just use a controller and your palm can move the champ while stilll reach the fire button
Post edited July 24, 2021 by Orkhepaj
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: I'm not buying the premise that there is such a thing as an "undetectable" hack. Rather, I call BS on that, and declare it to be a false premise.
Depends on the hack. Something that's "hardware" that sits between the controller / mouse and USB port and completely mimics / passes through its HID on PC1 whilst the cheat AI resides on PC2 connected only via HDMI and not LAN is simply not going to be seen by the game, and would work for consoles in place of PC1 too. To be honest I fully expected the cheat vs anti-cheat war to be won by the cheaters for this reason - people can (and many streamers do) own more than one PC and whilst there no limit to the lengths cheaters go to cheat, many non-cheaters do have limits as to how much Sony Rootkit 2.0 BS they'll tolerate to try and overcome cheaters before saying "Screw it. I'll just play something else"...

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BrianSim: Of course it might put a dent on non-Pro stuff, but then is it really a bad thing to take the billions upon billions of Fortnite money (and endless flogged to death Battle Royale clones in general) and use it to start making some decent single-player FPS's again? If that's the future, then that actually sounds like a good thing to me...
Yeah it does make you wonder what new single player IP could have been made with the same money but wasn't...
Post edited July 24, 2021 by AB2012
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Cheaters are losers that spoil the fun for everyone.
I don't get how they get the kicks by doing this; they not "pwning" other players, they affirm their mental issues by using hacks. Hell, they even pay for them! Is that isn't counter-productive, I don't know what is.
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Enebias: Cheaters are losers that spoil the fun for everyone.
I don't get how they get the kicks by doing this; they not "pwning" other players, they affirm their mental issues by using hacks. Hell, they even pay for them! Is that isn't counter-productive, I don't know what is.
If people can cheat, they will, it's pointless agonizing over the why. Maybe this is a wake-up call for developers to start making FPS games with fun, satisfying single-player campaigns again instead of this multiplayer crap forever.

Competitive games create toxic people.
Post edited July 25, 2021 by Crosmando