Yugoslavia. Iraque. Lybia. In Syria and Ukraine there where puppets.

The discussion is senseless.

Listen, both of you. The point is the same: comparisons are pointless. I don't care what evil shit every other country in the world did before this. It DOES. NOT. MATTER.

Was the US horribly wrong to invade Iraq? Yeah! Probably! And I was against it from day one. Does that matter AT ALL in this current crisis? NOPE.

My entire point is you cannot compare this to other historical events as some kind of defense. It doesn't work that way. "Someone else did it before" is a child's defense, a hollow defense, that means nothing.

Also it's not even a good comparison because we didn't keep part of Iraq and call it America.

So please if you're going to defend Russia's actions in Crimea do it on an actual, factual basis that relates to this crisis, not some other country's bad deeds in the past. At least if you say "Ukraine is part of Russia I don't care what maps say" that's an actual point of view, however much I might disagree with it.

Should i get this simply as confirmation what you hadnt read the topic, or some other way? Last try, c/p post of mine what you are proving wrong with stuff you had posted now.

The heights? Excuse me, I think I missed your point here.

As far as I understand, in case they vote for the second option they will have a separate parliament, their own president, a wider autonomy but remain formally a part of Ukraine with the ability to secede... or not to secede. All in all, pretty much like Tatarstan: it is a part of Russia, but the tartars have their own government, a wide autonomy etc.

Now your English is becoming an issue because I don't know what this means.

For the record there have been some solid points made about why Crimea would be better off with Russia. I am only addressing the America and EU comparisons above, which mean nothing. I wasn't necessarily attacking other points.

Like I said last page I think in the end Crimea being a part of Russia and mainland Ukraine getting to move further West like they want is a relatively good outcome for all involved. I bet secretly Kerry and Merkel realize this and are telling the new Ukrainian government just that behind closed doors. However at the end of the day you still have to tell Putin that invading a neighbor is naughty.

So you cannot copy\paste anything i had sayd, but instead you attribute to me some words what you are trying to disprove, and add to it any meaning what you like. Looks like i got a wrong impression about you, sorry for taking your time too.

And I think at this point it's the best possible outcome (realistically talking). As long as Russia is really content with only Crimea and won't want a bigger chunk of Ukraine...really wonder what the West would do then...

What do you want me to copy and paste? I don't understand.

Like I said, the language barrier is now getting in the way.

Because you answered on my post

"The even more funny thing is what looks like you are somehow still able to see a differences between late 30-s of previous century and recent time. You defeated the UK in ww2 and won it, but now looks like you're falling to the same trap as UK that time. Hope im is wrong here."

with

"My point, which seems lost on every pro-Russia poster, is that comparisons don't matter. First off you can't point to others' wrong actions to support your wrong actions. "Bush and Hitler did it too so we're all good!" It doesn't work that way at all. Secondly there are real common sense differences you guys keep ignoring... your military INVADED a sovereign state and they held a puppet election like means something. Own up to it and defend it if you think it's right, but don't rely on twisted comparisons that mean nothing."

So i need to see what i had post so you answer to me that way. My exact words. Where i "point to others to support" etc. Because i cannot continue to reply for you before you get back on track of what i had talked about, as it really pointless to respond to you while you are referring to somebody else's, or simply maked-up words. When (if) we will clarify it - we will be able to continue way more meaningful way.

History goes in circles man. Russia and Germany like to write a pacts, you know. They are usually shady for some time.

If I understand you correctly you're saying my "stop comparing to US and EU history" post was not really in response to what I quoted from you. You're probably right, I was making a general point.

I'm not sure what to say to your Western imperialism point. Yes, the West has tried to create an empire through cultural and economic persuasions. However no, I do not think that justifies actual military invasion in any way. I get that Putin will not risk losing his warm water port to a Western Ukraine, but at the end of the day that doesn't mean he gets to take what he wants by military force.

Better now. Im understand what it wasnt direct answer, as it would be a simple nonsence, unlikely from you (still). You talked about some other post(s) obviously. So im in fourth bonus time ask you to show that post. Forget the ww2 part by now, as i got we're agreed there. As again, it would be pretty weird if ill have to defend the words i hadnt wrote.

I included you be default I guess. If you never mentioned Iraq, Libya, etc. then accept my apology for including you.

I just dislike the "others did it first!" justification and wanted to make a clear statement against it.

Almost done now. Do a final step, and show my post with "others did it first!" justification, you had in mind to add me as default in your clear statement. Right after i can continue to reply on more general subject, if needed.
Imagine i'd answered to you with something like "As you sayd, and kept insisting what Putin kill 2 seals per morning, and what US invaded Iraq only to repel the invasion of the Space Jews, i see its pointless to continue to reply to you, just get this as my position (add blah-blah position)". You can just left such words unnoticed, or you can ask me to justify the words i had attributed to you by showing where you did (typed, sayd etc) it, if you think what there was some misunderstanding occured (maybe it was some other guy, or i just talking crap etc). Now im asking it from you in a similar case. I still have some slight hope what its misunderstanding and you're not just direct liar.

Rodor's posts are pretty clear and obvious, and quoted in my response.