Arent you just tied "legal systems" to this "objective morality"? The more "advanced" morality is - the more "developed" legal system are. Or i missed something?

Since this thread is derailed, we might go all the way. Be warned: it's a very extrem example.

Reported by Ahn Myong-chol, a former prison guard in North Korea (Tagesanzeiger, german source).
A female prisoner, 26 year old Han Gindiok get's tortured with hot metal bars. Reason being that she was raped by Ahn's superior and she gotten pregnant. She told who did it under the torture.
She gave birth to the child while working on the cornfield. The guards threw the newborn into the feeding bowl of the dogs, then killed the woman. The rapist gotten degraded.

Even knowing that you play devils advocate, I fail to call this not objectively wrong in more than just one way.

Are you able to make a single comment without using an appeal to emotion? And no I don't think there's an "objective" anything, relating to science, culture or indeed morality, to think otherwise is just hubris and arrogance, "we are the center of the universe" mindset. Nope sorry, we're all slightly upgraded monkeys here, nothing more.

Seeing cruelty makes us angry yes, but if you aren't offering something positive and constructive, it's just pointless emotional vanity. Again, the things you mention, the most outrageous cruelties and crimes, once upon a time in human society this wasn't thought of as cruel at all. Throw a man into a pot of boiling water, burning someone alive, force two people to fight to the death with swords, no problem because God would allow the righteous person to come out unscathed.

Stop thinking that things are "evil" or "objectively wrong" just because they evoke an emotion, instead realize that human beings are animals that are capable of the most disgusting, depraved and cruel actions that can be imagined. Even better, remember that in human history all these cruelties were thought of as normal, proper and morally just. It's only "recently", as in post-European industrialization, that these ideas we have today started to become "normal".

What a society thinks is evil is irrelevant, really, what matters is how advanced a society is compared to it's predecessors.

It's ok. It's your subjective point of view.

I like how this thread became total insane grotesque with statements like "North Korea is a democratic country" or theories that basically say that mass murdering innocent children wouldn't be objectively wrong. Oh well, Internet.

Civil war? Don't make me laugh.
Western Ukraine was known as Chervonnaya Rus' ("The Red Russia") from ancient times, even when it was in Grand Duchy of Lituania and in Rzecz Pospolita ("Russian Voevodstvo").
Ukranian fascism was nurtured carefully by Austrian-Hungary Empire.
Von Bismarck and Hitler both said "We must convince Ukranians that they are NOT Russians to prevail over Russia".
All of this came real after 1991 and USSR crumbling.
Now it's a continiuing struggle between oligarchs from all the world (mostly jews) for territory and resources with aid of nazi zombies from Western Ukraine. "Facebook revolutions", when dumb young people are ready for everything for the handful of green paper.
Contracts with Monsanto are already subscribed by "new governors" of Ukraine. Scythian gold is already transported to USA in secrecy. All the same we saw in Egypt, Syria and so on. Slaves should be deprived not only of bread and brains but more important - of memory and history.

Yes indeed, the common people were on the streets too. But as always the puppet masters used it for their own profit. I talked with some of these "common people". Now they are shocked and started to realize that they were fooled and *ucked as it always happens with all so-called revolutions.

Actually it matters a lot if you live within this society because you have to comply with their rules. But maybe what you mean and others is quite the same - the difficulties just lie in the communication.

So why do rules (connect to what's good and what's evil) exist? Because of religion or because or morale and ethics or maybe just because we want to live together in peace and that's better than being constantly on your own and vigilant. Human right, basic liberties, ... laws, norms, ... it all developed from these.

And sure you can oppose the soft rules likes social norms. But you cannot escape the law in your country usually and then that's it, the written in stone expression of what is right and what is wrong.

Now where are the laws between nations? There are only first approaches so far. Law of nations being one of them. Otherwise it is just power play. Russia invaded Crimea because they thought Ukrainians won't not fight back or in case they fight back nobody will help them. Of course the morale side is still important, otherwise there wouldn't be a vote, even if it is pretty useless because its in a fearful environment, hastened, no clear alternatives and an option for status quo is missing. But obviously its important to convince people all around the world of right and wrong and that's what everybody is trying.

Now I guess that everybody indeed has an opinion about that. Everybody makes up his mind whether this is right or wrong and it will influence the further course.

Congrats on missing my point entirely. The human condition can be improved vastly when problems are attacked with reason, by analyzing reality in an unemotional way. No peace was ever made and no diseases ever eradicated with emotions and with childish ideas of right and wrong. They were solved by approaching the problem in a pragmatic way.

Laws exist because they create a better society and improve lives, otherwise they would not exist. Murder and theft are not against the law because they're against some objective morality, but because a society cannot function without prohibiting those acts.

Man, you're the worst student in one of my sociology classes. Yes, everything is socially constructed and yes, advanced knowledge leads to lowered barbarism. None of that changes the fact stoning women in the streets is objectively wrong. As in it's always wrong when removed from social influences that make it seem right.

The West is a deeply flawed culture group filled with petty greed, manipulation and massive foreign wars only decades old. One should never blind themselves to their own culture's flaws if they can help it. However none of that, NONE of that, prevents us from seeing objective wrongs around the world. Stuff so obviously wrong to anyone removed from the situation there can be no debate.

Whenever one of my students says "who are we to tell Iranians it's wrong to stone women in the street for having sex?" I want to smack them in the face.

They stone women for committing adultery and adultery is a huge crime. But of course, punishing those who commit adultery with death is wrong.

Nazi zombies? That's a nice pot you're smoking there. The only fascism I see is coming from Kremlin. Only Kremlin calls it "patriotism", when it's just a plain and simple substitution of concepts.

I know why they do it. And there are things like Burkas and women not being allowed to drive that disgust me but I say "well it's another culture" and I move on. Stoning people to death however brings it up to the level of objectively, horribly wrong.

There are certainly grey lines and a far distance from black to white, but there are certainly actions like burning Jews in ovens and stoning women to death in the public square that hopefully we can all recognize as too far, pure black.

We'd rather you didn't. Tends to turn out not so well for those who are "helped" with democracy.
Makes sense, yes. So, out of curiosity, how many people are OK to lose their jobs so your government could make a point in this situation? How much damage to your economy and the welfare of your people is fine to make the bad Russian government stop meddling in your government's righteous plans?
Also keep in mind that German economy is (one of?) the strongest in Europe and no matter how hard you get hit, others will get hit much harder.

We'll see, brother, we'll see who is right. When Kolomoysky and other Dobkins of all kind will suck your land dry, and butthead Yarosh will be slain by "unknown snipers" (Putin's assassins, of course ;) ) - we'll see. When Mother Ukraine, the lullaby of Sacred Rus', will be raped, just because all of you are so dumb that you even don't know your own history - we'll see. When Slavs will be butcher each other again as it was in Yugoslavia - we'll see.
As long as you will be keep yelling about "Ukranian independence" and "freedom" - you'll stay only slaves. Paradox, isn't it? It's just because it's not YOUR OWN words and it's not YOUR OWN thoughts. You are just brainless blind parrots.
Maybe, it will be just fair when so brainless people will be washing WC somewhere in Romania.
We'll see, brother, where you will be feasting in 2015 New Year. We'll see.

I'm rather sure that the actually targeted side will be hit hardest. but of course, you'll blame those western governments then, not yours.
The world don't need Russia (or any other particular nation or government). The other way around? A lot more likely.