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General discussionUkrainian Civil War in progress?(1767 posts) (1767 posts) 
(1767 posts) 
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 06, 2014
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Matruchus: Referendum for anschluss of Crimea on Russia moved to 16. march. ...
The referendum won't be fair or well thought through. I guess result will be something between 99.75% and 100%.
Post edited March 06, 2014 by Trilarion
Posted March 06, 2014
Or more! Why limit Yourself! I mean, judging by the ammout of BS we've been fed the last couple of days, without any reaction, I guess he'd get away with it.
Posted March 06, 2014
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Matruchus: Referendum for anschluss of Crimea on Russia moved to 16. march. ...
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Trilarion: The referendum won't be fair or well thought through. I guess result will be something between 99.75% and 100%.
Yeah I know. But it seems Russia decided that Crimea belongs to them and it now is final. No diplomacy is going to change that.
Post edited March 06, 2014 by Matruchus
Posted March 06, 2014
fantastic... so the Russian government can just send their troops wherever they want and say "this is ours"... and NOBODY, not NATO, not United Nations did a thing :(
Posted March 06, 2014
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Kunovski: fantastic... so the Russian government can just send their troops wherever they want and say "this is ours"... and NOBODY, not NATO, not United Nations did a thing :(
Well Ukraine is not part of Nato or any defense treaty at the moment so there is no ground on which to base any military response from the western allies/nato.
Post edited March 06, 2014 by Matruchus
Posted March 06, 2014
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Kunovski: fantastic... so the Russian government can just send their troops wherever they want and say "this is ours"... and NOBODY, not NATO, not United Nations did a thing :(
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Matruchus: Well Ukraine is not part of Nato or any defense treaty at the moment so there is no ground on which to base any military response from the western allies/nato.
why military? maybe things can still be made right peacefully...

and I'm not sure but I've heard about an agreement in the past where Ukraine gave up all their nuclear weapons and defences in exchange for immediate help from EU/USA in cases like this...
Posted March 06, 2014
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Matruchus: Well Ukraine is not part of Nato or any defense treaty at the moment so there is no ground on which to base any military response from the western allies/nato.
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Kunovski: why military? maybe things can still be made right peacefully...

and I'm not sure but I've heard about an agreement in the past where Ukraine gave up all their nuclear weapons and defences in exchange for immediate help from EU/USA in cases like this...
You have wrong information. Ukraine signed a treaty between Ukraine, Russia and USA to give over their Nuclear weapons and US and Russia would quarantee its teritory and sovereignity. But Russia ignores that agreement.
Posted March 06, 2014
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Kunovski: why military? maybe things can still be made right peacefully...

and I'm not sure but I've heard about an agreement in the past where Ukraine gave up all their nuclear weapons and defences in exchange for immediate help from EU/USA in cases like this...
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Matruchus: You have wrong information. Ukraine signed a treaty between Ukraine, Russia and USA to give over their Nuclear weapons and US and Russia would quarantee its teritory and sovereignity. But Russia ignores that agreement.
exactly, now shouldn't the US do something? (other that those puny "no visas for you" sanctions that are just laughable)
Posted March 06, 2014
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Matruchus: You have wrong information. Ukraine signed a treaty between Ukraine, Russia and USA to give over their Nuclear weapons and US and Russia would quarantee its teritory and sovereignity. But Russia ignores that agreement.
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Kunovski: exactly, now shouldn't the US do something? (other that those puny "no visas for you" sanctions that are just laughable)
Well as much as I know this was a case that was never predicted in that treaty to be able to happen. The only thing is that the treaty is invalid but it has no affect on anything.

Will see what happens. At least the baltic states are part of Nato.
Post edited March 06, 2014 by Matruchus
Posted March 06, 2014
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Matruchus: You have wrong information. Ukraine signed a treaty between Ukraine, Russia and USA to give over their Nuclear weapons and US and Russia would quarantee its teritory and sovereignity. But Russia ignores that agreement.
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Kunovski: exactly, now shouldn't the US do something? (other that those puny "no visas for you" sanctions that are just laughable)
Why should it do anything? In the current situation there is a good chance Crimea goes to Russia, but the Ukraine goes to the NATO. What's happening right now is EXACTLY what the plan was, assuming the plan was to reinvigorate a near-dead NATO and placate Russia as an aggressor. The Ukraine is just a pawn in a geopolitical game of thrones. It's influence sphere expansion. And giving western population someone to see as enemy....

Even though the NATO promised Russia NEVER to expand east-wards or pursue direct borders with Russia. (If you look at a Nato map, you will understand why Russia is not amused)

A Crimea joining Russia is not helping the situation at all. Feels like we are being played for fools... I have no idea which side to believe anymore ;/
Posted March 06, 2014
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Kunovski: exactly, now shouldn't the US do something? (other that those puny "no visas for you" sanctions that are just laughable)
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eRe4s3r: Why should it do anything? In the current situation there is a good chance Crimea goes to Russia, but the Ukraine goes to the NATO. What's happening right now is EXACTLY what the plan was, assuming the plan was to reinvigorate a near-dead NATO and placate Russia as an aggressor. The Ukraine is just a pawn in a geopolitical game of thrones. It's influence sphere expansion. And giving western population someone to see as enemy....

Even though the NATO promised Russia NEVER to expand east-wards or pursue direct borders with Russia. (If you look at a Nato map, you will understand why Russia is not amused)

A Crimea joining Russia is not helping the situation at all. Feels like we are being played for fools... I have no idea which side to believe anymore ;/
Well at this point NATO and Russia are probably in the same bed together since there are no real sanctions against Russia. It will probably just so to say go away after Russia makes anschluss on Crimea.
Posted March 06, 2014
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Kunovski: exactly, now shouldn't the US do something? (other that those puny "no visas for you" sanctions that are just laughable)
What CAN they do? Sanctions are all that can and should be done, everything else would kill any chances for a peaceful end to the current situation.
Posted March 06, 2014
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Kunovski: exactly, now shouldn't the US do something? (other that those puny "no visas for you" sanctions that are just laughable)
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F4LL0UT: What CAN they do? Sanctions are all that can and should be done, everything else would kill any chances for a peaceful end to the current situation.
Yep, blood calls out for more blood. The US and other countries should send medical supplies and doctors to the Ukraine. I'm sure, there are a lot of dying people there right now who need help.
Post edited March 06, 2014 by monkeydelarge
Posted March 06, 2014
Well since Ukraine can not allow for Crimea to be taken away they will at the end be forced to go into war. That will allow Russia to take the eastern part Ukraine it also desires and that is going to be the end of this.
Post edited March 06, 2014 by Matruchus
Posted March 06, 2014
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eRe4s3r: What's happening right now is EXACTLY what the plan was, assuming the plan was to reinvigorate a near-dead NATO and placate Russia as an aggressor. The Ukraine is just a pawn in a geopolitical game of thrones. It's influence sphere expansion. And giving western population someone to see as enemy....
Also reminded me of this.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionUkrainian Civil War in progress?(1767 posts) (1767 posts) 
(1767 posts)