It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
My understanding is that the Crimea Ukraine troops are still there, but inside their bases. Russians are keeping them contained. That's how it's being presented on CNN and BBC News anyway.
avatar
StingingVelvet: My understanding is that the Crimea Ukraine troops are still there, but inside their bases. Russians are keeping them contained. That's how it's being presented on CNN and BBC News anyway.
It is how it is. They don't do anything to provoke russians and give them a reason of a false pretense. Some russians are brainwashed to the point that they are screaming of some mythical nationalist radicals, who apparently will come and eat their hearts out based on a nationality. Most people just trying to keep calm. Some are just saying that the new government is "fashist", which apparently is the new word trend equal to independency, national identity and dignity.
Well, they deserve Yanukovich as a president. May the God forgive him. Cause I surely won't.
avatar
AzureKite: It is how it is. They don't do anything to provoke russians and give them a reason of a false pretense. Some russians are brainwashed to the point that they are screaming of some mythical nationalist radicals, who apparently will come and eat their hearts out based on a nationality. Most people just trying to keep calm. Some are just saying that the new government is "fashist", which apparently is the new word trend equal to independency, national identity and dignity.
Well, they deserve Yanukovich as a president. May the God forgive him. Cause I surely won't.
Right.

I imagine the West is giving it some time to see exactly what Russia does but from the talk Secretary Kerry gave today and other comments I think it is pretty clear immediate financial punishments are incoming. Fortunately or unfortunately however, depending on your point of view, there will not be military aid, so I am not sure what Ukraine can do if Russia decides to keep Crimea.
avatar
Matruchus: In several western media Putin now compared to Hitler.
Or to Milosevic, which seems much more to to point insofar I am concerned.
Well, OK, I'll bite. At this point I think new Ukrainian government will benefit from war with Russia much more than Russia itself.
What one of the first things they do? Cancel language law. Which is very sensitive subject, everybody knows that.
Logical outcome from this provocation (duh) - most of the Crimea and East Ukraine will protest (violently) and ask Russia for help.
Now, what Russia must do? Succumb to provocations and invade? Very bad idea. Ignore these requests? Not very good either.
As I said, no matter what Russia will do, it will always be the bad guy in this situation.

And then asking NATO for military help (and other little things they've done) doesn't looks like trying to find peaceful solution to me.

How Ukrainian government will benefit? Well, there's so much will be going on if war starts, they could get away with pretty much anything. Set loyal governors, whatever.
And anyone questioning their legitimacy could be easily ignored or given to court martial.
Post edited March 02, 2014 by wbrk
avatar
AzureKite: Some are just saying that the new government is "fashist", which apparently is the new word trend equal to independency, national identity and dignity.
Back then, before Gorbatchev & co, the "fascist" branding was very common in USSR propaganda ( and the way it was relayed by communist / socialist parties in Western Europe. The last 48 hours, I really had the feeling the old structures / propaganda mechanism were there again.Including "protesters"/"supporters" on orders or paid for by the regime and clichés of the "Great Patriotic War"...

Now, there are apparently some actual far right or anarchist thugs that have raised their head during the recent events (seizing the opportunity ) and Moscow has it too easy to present the whole movement under that light
avatar
wbrk: And then asking NATO for military help (and other little things they've done) doesn't looks like trying to find peaceful solution to me.
Well they're staunchly anti-Russian, and now Russia is using military force, so of course they're mad. I'm sure their optimum solution would be Western military support to force Putin to back off (which won't happen).

They have been phenomenally stupid to pole the Russian bear though, true.
None of the parties involved actually want an armed confrontation, just a political victory, so that's one good thing about this whole mess. Although there is little else to be optimistic about. I have no doubt that someone will take the first shot, then the situation will escalate, and some form of Russian occupation will be the result.

Then again, Putin might duck and cover, but I estimate the chance of that to me about nil.
avatar
StingingVelvet: Well they're staunchly anti-Russian, and now Russia is using military force, so of course they're mad. I'm sure their optimum solution would be Western military support to force Putin to back off (which won't happen).

They have been phenomenally stupid to pole the Russian bear though, true.
Well, my point is also that I think they hoped that Russia will use military forces. And will be drawn into conflict with ... well, pretty much with the rest of the world.
I understand that they are anti-Russian, but many of their decisions was unnecessary and too hasty even for that.
Like provoking their own people instead of trying to calm them down.
Post edited March 02, 2014 by wbrk
avatar
wbrk: Well, my point is also that I think they hoped that Russia will use military forces. And will be drawn into conflict with ... well, pretty much with the rest of the world.
I understand that they are anti-Russian, but many of their decisions was unnecessary and too hasty even for that.
Like provoking their own people instead of trying to calm them down.
Yes, they have made a large number of mistakes. However I must point out none of those mistakes justify a military invasion of Crimea. I'm not ignorant of the Russian perspective, but there's a line you shouldn't cross and they crossed it. Arguably in Georgia they were provoked but they were not provoked this time.

If nothing else it was a diplomatic mistake, and one I do think the West will make Putin pay for in some way.
avatar
Matruchus: In several western media Putin now compared to Hitler.
in case you werent aware, the western media likes to compare *everybody* to hitler at one point or another. ;)
I haven't the slightest for sure idea of anything, so I just sigh.

Hopefully Ukrainian GOGers can make it through in one piece.
avatar
StingingVelvet: Yes, they have made a large number of mistakes. However I must point out none of those mistakes justify a military invasion of Crimea. I'm not ignorant of the Russian perspective, but there's a line you shouldn't cross and they crossed it. Arguably in Georgia they were provoked but they were not provoked this time.

If nothing else it was a diplomatic mistake, and one I do think the West will make Putin pay for in some way.
Agreed. Big diplomatic mistake.

And right now everybody just need to calm down, Russia must remove forces, Ukrainian government must stop pissing off their own citizens and try to find diplomatic solutions.

Sadly, I don't see it happening.
avatar
ktchong: snip
Whatever town or city you live in, I would sure as hell not want to live there. Sounds like a place full of wackos.
avatar
wbrk: Agreed. Big diplomatic mistake.

And right now everybody just need to calm down, Russia must remove forces, Ukrainian government must stop pissing off their own citizens and try to find diplomatic solutions.

Sadly, I don't see it happening.
I would bet a considerable amount of money that Russia never goes anywhere outside Crimea and the repercussions are all economic. Whether that counts as a win for Putin or not is something you'd have to ask him.