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I'm not being serious fyi, hardline communist is my new shtick
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Elmofongo: What is a difference between a Working Citizen and Slave?

A Slave is a slave to his masters

A Working Citizen is a slave to society.
No difference. Both are private property.
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Crosmando: I'm not being serious fyi, hardline communist is my new shtick
I know judging from your desire to play the soviets in that RTS game from Ubisoft GOG released.

But if you ask me I think your just acting like a hipster. You clearly lost faith in you current governments so you try and see something new and act rebellious, thinking a different form of government might bring about positive change.

Its kinda the samething for Westerners abandoning Christianity in favor of foreign faiths like Buddhism.
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Elmofongo: Its kinda the samething for Westerners abandoning Christianity in favor of foreign faiths like Buddhism.
Buddhism is not a faith....
Sorry if it looks like word-picking, but that example is wrong to the bones.
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vsr: Ukrainians suffered enough for theirs European dream.
Germany should allow them to migrate from Ukraine to Germany to live and to work there.
This nonsense should end at last.
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Lin545: Yes, Germans should build a wall around "European dreamers" and have them live their "European dream" of burning tires, worshipping Hitler and Bandera, telling lies and stealing everything they can instead of fair work - alone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvnLsshOJ18]
Killing people and the shouting "Heil Ukraine" is everything they are capable of.[/url]
Isn't this is what your government (along with USA) has been teaching them for a few decades of years (Bandera/Shukhevych - heroes, Russians - enemies)?
Your state's elites played this card and failed.
Now, as a civilized people, you (Germans) have to be responsible for people you have tamed. Let them migrate to Germany. You've been nazi-savages too in 1940 years, when you attacked without notice of war my Motherland. You'll find common language with Ukrainians.
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Lin545: Why haven't you prevented it?
Because I forgot to research democracy? Shit, I might have to nerve-staple everyone and nuke the spartans from the orbit.
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vsr: Isn't this is what your government (along with USA) has been teaching them for a few decades of years (Bandera/Shukhevych - heroes, Russians - enemies)?
Your state's elites played this card and failed.
Now, as a civilized people, you (Germans) have to be responsible for people you have tamed. Let them migrate to Germany. You've been nazi-savages too in 1940 years, when you attacked without notice of war my Motherland. You'll find common language with Ukrainians.
If you check my background, then its polish, jewish, german, belarussian and russian. My grandmother for example, came from Poland, received a prison sentence for trying to cover-up as a judge, someone who was starving and stole a bag of potato, was departed to Siberia, then have moved back to Rostov region and fought against Nazis, her daughter married an Estonian with jewish roots; and I married a German girl, who's parents are Volga Germans.

I even had a chance to talk to an ex-Hitlerjugend, who escaped from Soviets to USA. So thing is, the media propaganda in Ukraine is very similar to Hitler time; with all "incorrect" media being banned and those existing strongly censored. Difference is that Poroshenko is so corrupted, he does not even take genocide conquest seriously, laying major % of credit money in his own pockets; with far-radicals trying to make another Maidan recently because he <span class="podkreslenie">does not kill enough</span>. So sure, sadly Ukraine turned into a zoo.

I guess your post does not really fit in about how the world actually ticks, and how easily can the mass be manipulated. I mean, there is even a shorter version of what happened.
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Lin545: Why haven't you prevented it?
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Starmaker: Because I forgot to research democracy? Shit, I might have to nerve-staple everyone and nuke the spartans from the orbit.
You can't be serious.
Post edited September 03, 2015 by Lin545
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Just like i thought. Germany/USA created a meat grinder on the border with Russia.
And they are very happy about it. And they protect it (constantly threaten to Ukrainian rebels to attack no further than Mariupol - No harm should be made to Petro Poroshenko nazi regime! OR... or rebels (and Russia of course) will face "consequences" ).
And they don't care about Ukrainians. No shelter for them in Germany.
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Trilarion: But expected 800,000 refugees is a huge number. They don't only flee war but also poverty and corruption and general hopelessness. This problem is big. I genuinely think it is bigger currently than the war in the Ukraine and rightfully deserves more attention. Not only organizationally but also politically there will be extreme tensions and winter is coming (luckily not the Russian one). We simply have to concentrate on this and also this is where we can achieve most. Integrate as many of these refugees as possible will avoid a lot of problems. Hopefully this can be done. This topic is important and deserves a lot of attention (although 99% is also exxagerated).
German concentrating on problem of refugees... Go on.
Thing is, russian winter is coming to Ukraine. Like in the last year they have no money to buy fuel, (they survived on stolen gas, owner applied for arbitrage) so, if you don't give them money to buy coal from US (closer choices are: terroristic coal from donbass or agressive coal from kuzbass) you will face 10+mlns of refugees running from freezing to death.

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Trilarion: Why they have to die - why people had to start to fight - I still don't know the answer to this crucial question
Answer is in mentality, not nationality. There are two zones - "Russian ukrainians" and "nigger-ukrainians". Or "former polish-turkish-german slaves-mentality"
Historical and economical context:
in 2009 there was a 300-years jubilee of "Order of Judas Iscariot", created by Peter the Great as "award" for ukrainian betrayal, they joined Sweden army against Russia.
But, whatever, this is long gone time.

XX century:
Post-revolution Ukraine becomes "country", so USSR would have more seats for UN votes.
Due to Iron curtain west-oriented ukrainians couldn't leave USSR and amassed in Kiev. Russia-oriented ukrainians could amass in the Moscow. Country-center is more desirable than regional center.

WW2 - west-oriented ukrainians joined Hitler's army, Russia-oriented fought them. This is still relevant, man, which started "counter-terroristic operation" on the east had his father shot for cooperation with Hitler's army.

After Stalin's death ukrainian diaspora in Moscow takes control over USSR. 3 general secretaries after Stalin were Ukrainians.
What they did? They funneled Russian resources on development of Ukraine. "We are brothers", other shit.
What they achieved:
http://i.imgur.com/f2vL3J4.jpg
This is agitation for leaving USSR
production per capita in 1989
goods / England / Italy / France / Germany / Ukraine / Place
Electricity
Oil
Gas
Coal
Iron ore
Steel
cement
grain
potatoes
meat
milk
sugar
butter

Exactly. They took as much of Russian production as possible and leaved us to starve.
"Hey, Russia, you want to eat? This bag of beans would be 2kg of gold for you".

USSR was butchered AGAINST referendum where 80% voted to save country in its border, but US and its bitches instantly "recognized" new countries.
It was butchered because first ukrainian president had no chance to get power in democratic post-USSR Russia, but had enough weight to become president of republic.
He was typical ukrainian president, corrupt, killing opposition, was overthrown...

So, what happened with "number one in so many areas country"?
Cosmic area:
Ukraine got plants to produce spaceships. All they needed to sign contracts with launchpads.
Actual state:
Plants are stopped, wages unpaid for years, refrigerators with rocket fuel are cut off from electricity and would blow up after some hot days.
https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=ru&amp;tl=en&amp;js=y&amp;prev=_t&amp;hl=ru&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;u=http%3A%2F%2Fantimaydan.info%2F2015%2F07%2Fdnepropetrovskij_uzhmash_otkluchen_ot_elektropitaniya_za_dolgi_348386.html&amp;edit-text=&amp;act=url
Engines for aircrafts
They produced engines for Russian 5th generation jets, helicopters, gas transport system... (see, how "unimportant" is this?)
http://i.imgur.com/7Pr3T3X.jpg - this is from my wall, if you look closely, you can see that there is no typographic info. It was given as a gift directly on plant.
New government banned export to Russia, obviously, Boeing or Lockheed martin don't need their engines.
Same unpaid wages, selling unique benches to scrapmetal as firesale...
Specialists flee to Russia with families - first hand knowledge.

And that's the state of EVERY branch of manufacturing.

Furthermore, Ukraine got thousands tanks, which USSR pulled from Eastern Germany.
So, after becoming free they started to sell them, dumping prices on weaponry.
Figuratively, Russian offer: $100 per tank. Bare minimum to buy enough material for building and pay wages.
Ukrainian offer - $20 per tank. And free ammo.
Because they got so much of them for free. Ukraine is in top ten weapon exporters.

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Trilarion: Politically I would say that the eastern Ukraine is still a part of Ukraine. Before the war broke out there lived at least 50% Ukrainians and you cannot dismiss this.
Break goes in mentality, not nationality. Look how votes distribute at presidential elections:
http://i.imgur.com/KFvu8Uy.png
Zone # 2 promises "Niggers, we can get EU welfare".
Zone #1 and #3 vote for "somewhat-pro-russian candidate". Ukrainian "pro-russian" presidents had rhetoric "how much would you pay us for not breaking your things?", but, whatever.
Zone #3 is a very interesting thing in these elections.
It was part of Czechoslovakia before WW2, in 1991 about 78% voted for independence from Ukraine, however, it was not granted.
Let that sink in - part of Europe, which want to reunite with former compatriots doesn't vote for "Ukrainian eurointegration".

Zone #2 is a cancer, which killed USSR. now they kill stolen part of Russia.

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Trilarion: Russia is a tragic figure of history. Rich beyond dreams in land and resources but they will manage to waste it all one way or the other. How ironic.
Thanks to three generations of Ukrainians pillaging us.
Plus, thanks to Bulgarians selling USSR IT infrastructure to silicon valley. And thanks to baltic countries closing their manufactures and nuclear plants (Ignalinskaya power plant comes to mind). Thanks to Poland closing Kozloduevskaya power plant... and so on.
Evil evil russian occupants, leaving roads, nuclear plants and hospitals to occupied nations.

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Crosmando: Russia needs communism back, you can't oppose the West while at the same time being part of the international capitalist market system, because that system is controlled by the US/West As soon as Putin starting acting independently of the Americans in Ukraine and Crimea, they got slapped down with Western sanctions and the Russian economy started tanking.

Solution is to nationalize everything.
Nationalizing would destroy possibility to get investments for years.
Putin did funnier thing - Kremlin for years officially exaggerates problems in economic, so our stocks would trade low, and then buyback at bare minimum.
The most important plants are now owned by government at control packet level again.
Post edited September 03, 2015 by Gremlion
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Gremlion: Thing is, russian winter is coming to Ukraine. Like in the last year they have no money to buy fuel, (they survived on stolen gas, owner applied for arbitrage) so, if you don't give them money to buy coal from US (closer choices are: terroristic coal from donbass or agressive coal from kuzbass) you will face 10+mlns of refugees running from freezing to death.
Thing is - Donbass has a lot of coal. Why is West Ukraine ultimately in conflict with Donbass, if people there still(!) neutral to ukrainian language? Because of their radicalism, they literally said either Donbass submits to what they dictate, to leaders they pick, to conditions they see fit, ukrainian-only language and culture (not just slavic) or it will be done by military force. They worship nazism and prohibit soviet history and symbolic... I mean, its fully okay to dislike anything soviet, but there should be some respect, because it was part of history.

Donbass to side, where could they else generate money? Economy! Industry! Say what? Half of the country depended on the trade with Russia and West. Companies were more-less secure against raiders and racketeers. Not anymore! Do you know why A4 Games - company which made "METRO" suddenly migrated to far east, and married asian women? To prevent being sent into the warzone..

Okay, so the industry is collapsed, why not take credits and buy fuel? They do buy fuel... from Africa. But those in control today are so ... smarta$$, they take fuel and refuse to pay. Or this newer scheme... they refuse to buy gas from Russia and want to purchase it from Europe? Which gas - the Russian gas, sold to Europe and then resold to Ukraine. Why? Because Russia does not trust them anymore, requiring payment upfront - but Europe still does not believe that Ukraine can do that - exploitable. Besides, at premium price, there is premium to rip off. Only the population will have to pay back, and the population has nearly no choice due to the militarization.

The only people responsible for this mess, for nearly every event, are those self-elected at "Maidan", supported by militaristic underground. Who supported those, like the Taliban? Its Afghanistan 2.0.
Post edited September 04, 2015 by Lin545
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Gremlion: Break goes in mentality, not nationality. Look how votes distribute at presidential elections:
http://i.imgur.com/KFvu8Uy.png
Lovely Mrs Timoshenko! I am very sure, *she* is the person behind gas price explosion and illegal deposit of gas by end of 2005-2012. And then, when Maidan happened, she was in roll chair. Well, she suddenly healed and stood up! Where, exactly? In USA embassy in Kiev....
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Lin545: Thing is - Donbass has a lot of coal. Why is West Ukraine ultimately in conflict with Donbass, if people there still(!) neutral to ukrainian language? Because of their radicalism, they literally said either Donbass submits to what they dictate, to leaders they pick, to conditions they see fit, ukrainian-only language and culture (not just slavic) or it will be done by military force. They worship nazism and prohibit soviet history and symbolic... I mean, its fully okay to dislike anything soviet, but there should be some respect, because it was part of history.
There are many layers.
Realistically, people on the East understand what Eurointegration gives them - only negatives. Trilarion and other like him thinks otherwise, but even on gog you can find very interesting posts:
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/the_bitch_about_life_in_general_thread/ post #6981, written by latvian:

I feel your pain, brother! I'm actively looking for a job, sending my CV left and right, but so far - to no avail. If I had known that I live in Russia (Hint: I don't, it's just that my country is full of Russians who refuse to use/learn our language, so pretty much any job requires decent knowledge of the Russian language) I would have paid way more attention in Russian class. I'm still keeping my hopes up and waiting for a miracle, though. But for the moment it feels like I am a giant failure, which isn't really helping.
After twenty years in EU, the only jobs in the country - remnants of ones built by Russians.
Also, this is fun example of "baltic mentality" - they are so accustomed to Russians nurturing them, that they still think that "everyone should kneel before me, i'm latvian in Latvia".
Honestly, when these arrogant fucks whine about "possible russian aggression", it causes laugh - Why? Wishing to die in Latvia so other russians would be able to build them plants AGAIN? It's funnier to let them fuck themselves with cacti dildos.

Another layer - Donbass and Luhansk were major currency generators. With prices on steel plummeting from $500/ton to $150/ton, instead of profitable they are barely self-sufficient. So, western Ukraine demands from them "work harder, sluts". Cynically speaking, Russia doesn't need these regions - their mines weren't invested into since 1990th , so by our laws they would be closed as unsafe. Our interest - resettling these people into regions with better economical future.

Another layer - owners of Donbass (Akhmetov and Firtash) still export coal from these regions to Europe (I know about Spain.)
So, they block advancing of their forces to Mariupol, because it would causes question - Um, how do you export goods from "captured by russians territory"? So, there are still "controlled by Kiev mines" in Donbass and "controlled by Kiev ports".
Backed by US and EU oligarchs want to capture these territories, but, because people in Ukraine aware of absolutely selfish interests (Like, Poroshenko still owns plants in Russia and Crimea, he pays taxes to Russian budget, which goes on army too... Poroshenko supplies "invader"...), so they don't want to die.
Realistically, scale of the conflict - couple of thousands mercenaries, with cannon fodder around them. Poroshenko uses army as "legitimate democratic president", owners of Donbass use civilians, which lost their relatives in bombing and tried to ally Russia.
I suppose they couldn't get support from Putin and convinced someone weaker, with ties in media. He provided them with contacts in our criminal world. It has many people with actual military experience from Chechnya and Afghanistan, Russia couldn't afford PTSD-healing programs for a while, so many of the veterans couldn't find themselves in peaceful life and became felons.
Arming them? Ukroarmy is corrupt, for example, Geletey, former minister of ukrodefence, after leaving thousands of ukrainian soldiers with equipment to die in Illovaisk purchased nice multimillion-dollar estate in England.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJG5UmRY0UU - video of trophies.

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Lin545: The only people responsible for this mess, for nearly every event, are those self-elected at "Maidan", supported by militaristic underground. Who supported those, like the Taliban? Its Afghanistan 2.0.
To grow a revolution, you need right soil.
Ukrainians like to call us Mordor, and there is grain of truth.
When they overthrew corrupt president and elected his billionaire minister of finance as president most of Russia looked like Saruman's horde - with huge palm-like bruises on faces from facepalms.

Realistically, these goblins deserve this government, green water isn't harmful for them.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&amp;tl=en&amp;js=y&amp;prev=_t&amp;hl=ru&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;u=http%3A%2F%2Fhealth.unian.net%2Fcountry%2F1030855-zelenaya-voda-iz-krana-ne-vredit-organizmu-cheloveka-klichko.html&amp;edit-text=&amp;act=url
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One simply doesn't forget Petro... Petro Poroshenko (Waltzman, before marriage)!
Attachments:
petro.jpg (29 Kb)
Presidents come and go, but this snake slithers from one geo-strategic hotspot to the next with nary a hitch, putting out fires by dousing them with gasoline.
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Ukrainians, probably, will get a visa-free regime with Europe on June, 12 (no year mentioned), - Brussels reporter Rikard Jozwiak of Radio Free Europe reports!

It will be fair if residents of Crimea will get a visa-free regime as well (Europe believes it is a Ukrainian territory).
Dzhermaneeeya hype! \o/ :P