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Fenixp: He is fairly entertaining to watch tho. Every single time I have seen him make his favourite 'PC gamers are the best!" argument, he got totally shredded by reasonable argumentation. Those clearly don't apply to him, so I'd say he's just trolling.
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Crosmando: Actually, you are the one who continually makes these silly hypothetical arguments, I'm simply arguing on the basis of real facts. And the fact is, there has been many dozens of classic RPG's on computers, but yet on console very, very few, and they are all mostly Action RPG's. After all, if consoles were so good, then why weren't Baldur's Gate, Fallout, etc, ported to Playstation? You continually avoid and try to badmouth me to avoid the unavoidable fact that the mouse is superior for non-action RPGs.
You know FF 7 was on PS...
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Crosmando: No
No
Yes
Yes
No
Interesting. The first yes is for a game on iPhone, the second yes is for a game on NES. Got to go look for a KBM for those two systems.

Thank you.
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Crosmando: Actually, you are the one who continually makes these silly hypothetical arguments, I'm simply arguing on the basis of real facts. And the fact is, there has been many dozens of classic RPG's on computers, but yet on console very, very few, and they are all mostly Action RPG's. After all, if consoles were so good, then why weren't Baldur's Gate, Fallout, etc, ported to Playstation? You continually avoid and try to badmouth me to avoid the unavoidable fact that the mouse is superior for non-action RPGs.
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McDon: You know FF 7 was on PS...
And many years later, they finally managed to port it across to the pc :)
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Crosmando: ...
Actually, I have tried to provide you with facts and arguments many, many times on these boards, including this very discussion. You really don't have to look all that far back to see that. You have always ignored the actual arguments, pinpointed something you could ridicule, and then jumped at it. I've seen you do that over and over all around the boards, so ... If you consciously render all argumentation with you pointless, why should I do that?
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KoolZoid: It's kinda scary to think that there are people out there who would deny themselves so many excellent narrative experiences simply because the interface doesn't have enough superfluous buttons on it....
When did I say that? Actually, the heart of my argument is simply that the computer gaming experience is fundamentally different than the console gaming experience, when others are arguing that that all platforms are the same.

It isn't just about games designed for gamepad vs games designed for KBM either, console games are also designed to be viewed on a TV, while computer games designed to viewed on a monitor. Console games are designed so the player can "sit back" and play, thus a focus on sound/voice-acting and graphics, while a computer game the player is of course closer to the screen because monitors are smaller with the resolution in a smaller radius. This means the "PC gaming experience" is more about "reading", text-driven type games, because the player is close to the screen and has to read things, while a console gamer can sit back on the couch and have them entire game handed to him lazily with graphics and voice-acting.

You say "narrative experience" but the real narrative experience is PC. You'll never see a game with as much story and text, with dialogue choices as huge as PS:T, on a console, I will guarantee you that.

It's denying reality to say that developers treat all platforms the same when designing their games. Console gamers do not have patience, they don't like to read, they want to sit on a couch and have everything handed to them visually on a platter. If they didn't they would be playing on PC.
Post edited March 13, 2013 by Crosmando
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Fenixp: He is fairly entertaining to watch tho. Every single time I have seen him make his favourite 'PC gamers are the best!" argument, he got totally shredded by reasonable argumentation. Those clearly don't apply to him, so I'd say he's just trolling.
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Crosmando: Actually, you are the one who continually makes these silly hypothetical arguments, I'm simply arguing on the basis of real facts. And the fact is, there has been many dozens of classic RPG's on computers, but yet on console very, very few, and they are all mostly Action RPG's. After all, if consoles were so good, then why weren't Baldur's Gate, Fallout, etc, ported to Playstation? You continually avoid and try to badmouth me to avoid the unavoidable fact that the mouse is superior for non-action RPGs.
Speaking of facts, a quick glance at Metacritics top20 digital RPGs of at least the last 20 years (and if you're not using Metacritic, then what are you using to define 'classic'?) shows just 3 pc-only titles (BGII, Diablo, and World of Warcraft). All the rest are either console-only or multi-platform. Now I'm sure we can all agree that Diablo pretty much helped define what an Action RPG might be considered to be, so that leaves BGII - a wonderful digital RPG, I won't have a word said against it - and World of Warcraft. Is WoW part of your 'classic pc RPG' definition? Coz if it's not, that means there's only 1 pc-only game in the top 20 'classic' digital RPGs....
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Crosmando: Actually, you are the one who continually makes these silly hypothetical arguments, I'm simply arguing on the basis of real facts. And the fact is, there has been many dozens of classic RPG's on computers, but yet on console very, very few, and they are all mostly Action RPG's. After all, if consoles were so good, then why weren't Baldur's Gate, Fallout, etc, ported to Playstation? You continually avoid and try to badmouth me to avoid the unavoidable fact that the mouse is superior for non-action RPGs.
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KoolZoid: Speaking of facts, a quick glance at Metacritics top20 digital RPGs of at least the last 20 years (and if you're not using Metacritic, then what are you using to define 'classic'?) shows just 3 pc-only titles (BGII, Diablo, and World of Warcraft). All the rest are either console-only or multi-platform. Now I'm sure we can all agree that Diablo pretty much helped define what an Action RPG might be considered to be, so that leaves BGII - a wonderful digital RPG, I won't have a word said against it - and World of Warcraft. Is WoW part of your 'classic pc RPG' definition? Coz if it's not, that means there's only 1 pc-only game in the top 20 'classic' digital RPGs....
Lol Metacritic
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KoolZoid: ....
You can't look at opinions of people on Metacritic! You need to look at opinion of Crosmando, who also has an opinion of
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Crosmando: Keyboard and mouse control is completely different and superior/more intricate than anything a few buttons on a controller could muster.
and tries to pass it as an objective fact, regardless that most old RPGs don't even use that control scheme properly.
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KoolZoid: It's kinda scary to think that there are people out there who would deny themselves so many excellent narrative experiences simply because the interface doesn't have enough superfluous buttons on it....
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Crosmando: When did I say that? Actually, the heart of my argument is simply that the computer gaming experience is fundamentally different than the console gaming experience, when others are arguing that that all platforms are the same.

It isn't just about games designed for gamepad vs games designed for KBM either, console games are also designed to be viewed on a TV, while computer games designed to viewed on a monitor. Console games are designed so the player can "sit back" and play, thus a focus on sound/voice-acting and graphics, while a computer game the player is of course closer to the screen because monitors are smaller with the resolution in a smaller radius. This means the "PC gaming experience" is more about "reading", text-driven type games, because the player is close to the screen and has to read things, while a console gamer can sit back on the couch and have them entire game handed to him lazily with graphics and voice-acting.

You say "narrative experience" but the real narrative experience is PC. You'll never see a game with as much story and text, with dialogue choices as huge as PS:T, on a console, I will guarantee you that.

It's denying reality to say that developers treat all platforms the same when designing their games. Console gamers do not have patience, they don't like to read, they want to sit on a couch and have everything handed to them visually on a platter. If they didn't they would be playing on PC.
Yes, text-driven games like World of Warcraft?
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Crosmando: When did I say that? Actually, the heart of my argument is simply that the computer gaming experience is fundamentally different than the console gaming experience, when others are arguing that that all platforms are the same.

It isn't just about games designed for gamepad vs games designed for KBM either, console games are also designed to be viewed on a TV, while computer games designed to viewed on a monitor. Console games are designed so the player can "sit back" and play, thus a focus on sound/voice-acting and graphics, while a computer game the player is of course closer to the screen because monitors are smaller with the resolution in a smaller radius. This means the "PC gaming experience" is more about "reading", text-driven type games, because the player is close to the screen and has to read things, while a console gamer can sit back on the couch and have them entire game handed to him lazily with graphics and voice-acting.

You say "narrative experience" but the real narrative experience is PC. You'll never see a game with as much story and text, with dialogue choices as huge as PS:T, on a console, I will guarantee you that.

It's denying reality to say that developers treat all platforms the same when designing their games. Console gamers do not have patience, they don't like to read, they want to sit on a couch and have everything handed to them visually on a platter. If they didn't they would be playing on PC.
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McDon: Yes, text-driven games like World of Warcraft?
Well, there's a reason MMO's are only on PC, the chat-log and all that.
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KoolZoid: Speaking of facts, a quick glance at Metacritics top20 digital RPGs of at least the last 20 years (and if you're not using Metacritic, then what are you using to define 'classic'?) shows just 3 pc-only titles (BGII, Diablo, and World of Warcraft). All the rest are either console-only or multi-platform. Now I'm sure we can all agree that Diablo pretty much helped define what an Action RPG might be considered to be, so that leaves BGII - a wonderful digital RPG, I won't have a word said against it - and World of Warcraft. Is WoW part of your 'classic pc RPG' definition? Coz if it's not, that means there's only 1 pc-only game in the top 20 'classic' digital RPGs....
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Crosmando: Lol Metacritic
What a concise and delicious response! I shall refer your arguement to my friend Anders. Anders, what did you think of his arguement?
Attachments:
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KoolZoid: What a concise and delicious response! I shall refer your arguement to my friend Anders. Anders, what did you think of his arguement?
Cool! I told you people making fun of him is entertaining. At least you are listening to me now, so, what's the plan?
anyway getting back to Tides of Numerera....

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera/posts/427226
Update #6

46,912
Backers
$2,566,756
pledged of $900,000 goal
23
days to go
Post edited March 13, 2013 by nijuu
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nijuu: anyway getting back to Tides of Numerera....

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera/posts/427226
Update #6

46,912
Backers
$2,566,756
pledged of $900,000 goal
23
days to go
Snif, I'm being ignored...
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nijuu: anyway getting back to Tides of Numerera....

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera/posts/427226
Update #6

46,912
Backers
$2,566,756
pledged of $900,000 goal
23
days to go
avatar
JMich: Snif, I'm being ignored...
Sorry i skipped most of the last few pages as my eyes glazed over with boredom over the offtopic chatter ;)....