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General discussionToday is Veterans' Day in the US.(57 posts)(57 posts)
(57 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted November 12, 2019
On one side, the ending of WWI is something to celebrate, on the other, what came out of those peace accords mid/long term was disaster after disaster reaching today.
Posted November 12, 2019
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Spectre: Do they still have conscription in Norway or other Euro countries?
"They"? The Grey Ones?

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toxicTom: Game suggestions:
Cannon Fodder
Spec Ops: The Line
...?
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Mafwek: Why Spec-Ops: the Line?
Why not?
Post edited November 12, 2019 by timppu
Posted November 12, 2019
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Mafwek: Why Spec-Ops: the Line?
Because war has never been so much fun?
Posted November 12, 2019
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DadJoke007: Screw it, nothing good will come from this discussion.
It could if some of the same people who keep saying they detest politics talk on the forums would keep politics out of the thread and just say something nice and move on/not reply in the first place.
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Once again I thank all troops(ANY country) who served to protect their country in any capacity and especially those who died/were severely wounded while doing so. Respect...*salute*
Post edited November 12, 2019 by GameRager
Posted November 12, 2019
I am not here to defend policy or regurgitate jingoism... or even to defend this thread. I am not here to refute claims -- although if you were here at my home I'd gladly discuss claims energetically over coffee. I am here to simply say...

I find it interesting -- if that is the right word? -- to read the countries from where some of the most vocal hail. To me, this is -- moreso than not -- sadly ironic. I would expect people from many of these places to understand individual sacrifice is much more real and valid than the winds of political motivation -- which is almost never on the level of the common man or woman... to further understand that political blame built upon recent history could easily and callously be thrust upon them as well. But then I understand anger is often slanted and myopic and built upon a kernel of truth (sometimes more) wrapped in general distress with whatever status quo at the time. Anger is an outward force; people looking to blame and assign fault rarely turn inward.

If you judge people solely by the politics -- past or present -- of their countries, you are missing the people completely.
Posted November 12, 2019
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kai2: I am not here to defend policy or regurgitate jingoism... or even to defend this thread. I am not here to refute claims -- although if you were here at my home I'd gladly discuss claims energetically over coffee. I am here to simply say...

I find it interesting -- if that is the right word? -- to read the countries from where some of the most vocal hail. To me, this is -- moreso than not -- sadly ironic. I would expect people from many of these places to understand individual sacrifice is much more real and valid than the winds of political motivation -- which is almost never on the level of the common man or woman... to further understand that political blame built upon recent history could easily and callously be thrust upon them as well. But then I understand anger is often slanted and myopic and built upon a kernel of truth (sometimes more) wrapped in general distress with whatever status quo at the time. Anger is an outward force; people looking to blame and assign fault rarely turn inward.

If you judge people solely by the politics -- past or present -- of their countries, you are missing the people completely.
*Slow clap*

Well said.
Posted November 12, 2019
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kai2: If you judge people solely by the politics -- past or present -- of their countries, you are missing the people completely.
Wrong. Soldiers are under direct control of the government (if not formally in every single country, they are factually in all of them), it is not possible to separate their actions with political motivations.
Any individual as their own self is undoubtedly more than a mindless drone with a dogtag, but when in veteran's day you take in consideration soldiers and "soldiering", you simply cannot keep politics apart, because they ARE politics made practice. When soldiers act thay act like the arm of a country, not as the individuals they would be outside their job (unless they want to be charged with military accuses for not following orders).
And, answering to your "certain countries" part, nobody comes out with weird justifications like US people do. I don't believe in coincidences.

In general, the problem with US citizens is that -aside from the soldiers, which incidentally may find this occurrence awkward- none of you has memory of a war on your own soil. It's easy to cheer for the military when it doesn't touch your national ground.
Posted November 12, 2019
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kai2: If you judge people solely by the politics -- past or present -- of their countries, you are missing the people completely.
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Enebias: Wrong. Soldiers are under direct control of the government (if not formally in every single country, they are factually in all of them), it is not possible to separate their actions with political motivations.
Any individual as their own self is undoubtedly more than a mindless drone with a dogtag, but when in veteran's day you take in consideration soldiers and "soldiering", you simply cannot keep politics apart, because they ARE politics made practice. When soldiers act thay act like the arm of a country, not as the individuals they would be outside their job (unless they want to be charged with military accuses for not following orders).
And, answering to your "certain countries" part, nobody comes out with weird justifications like US people do. I don't believe in coincidences.

In general, the problem with US citizens is that -aside from the soldiers, which incidentally may find this occurrence awkward- none of you has memory of a war on your own soil. It's easy to cheer for the military when it doesn't touch your national ground.
Are you a student of WWII? The Pacification of Libya? The Second Italo-Ethiopian War?

I would suggest you do some reading.
Post edited November 12, 2019 by kai2
Posted November 12, 2019
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Enebias: Wrong. Soldiers are under direct control of the government (if not formally in every single country, they are factually in all of them), it is not possible to separate their actions with political motivations.
Again, how hard is it(in general, for all) to not mention politics? A simple "Have a nice veteran's day" or similar reply by some would've worked well.....why bring politics into it when it's not needed/wanted?

Or heck, some could even choose not to post and let other people have their thread free of such talk while avoiding thinking too much of the subject.
Post edited November 12, 2019 by GameRager
Posted November 12, 2019
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Enebias: snip
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kai2: Are you a student of WWII? The Pacification of Libya? The Second Italo-Ethiopian War?

I would suggest you do some reading.
Is that a creative way to say "no u"?

I talked about soldiers in general. Then I mentioned the US because you jabbed at... well, basically any non-US user here.
I said what I meant, and that applies to everything. You won't ever see me around praising the Italian Fascist regime, but I don't make excuses about it; at some point in history, Italy had a pretty aggressive, violent, criminal and embarassing history. Like any country had, let's be fair.
I'm not an endorser of military in general, the best compliment I can make them is "they're still necessary in this grim world, because the one who doesn't have them would get eaten on the spot". That's it.
Also, I wouldn't try to let me pass for uneducated about history, if I were you. It only hurts your credibility like military fanfare hurts my nerves. Besides, some things cannot be understood through theory alone.
Believe it or not, I grew up in the post-war misery; not in first person, sure, but I was just one generation later, so I know pretty well what the effects of war are. Some of them, we are still paying nearly 80 years after.
Post edited November 12, 2019 by Enebias
Posted November 12, 2019
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Enebias: I talked about soldiers in general. Then I mentioned the US because you jabbed at... well, basically any non-US user here.
You and some others still brought politics into a thread that wasn't made for such.

Also Kai2(afaik) was talking about the same thing: Anyone(in general) turning the thread into a political discussion when it was not meant to be one. As many who did such are not from the US of course those two groups are going to align on the old venn diagram, but it's likely not because kai2 was trying to jab at non-us users.
Post edited November 12, 2019 by GameRager
Posted November 12, 2019
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Enebias: I talked about soldiers in general. Then I mentioned the US because you jabbed at... well, basically any non-US user here.
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GameRager: You and some others still brought politics into a thread that wasn't made for such.
I'd like to remind you that this is a thread about US Veterans. NOT remembrance day. It had the explicit intention of thanking soldiers for, quoting directly: "choosing to sacrifice your time to protect your country's interests". If this isn't political, nothing is.
Also, being accused of turning things into politics by you of all people sounds a bit forced, doesn't it? I never got banned for that in the first place.
Yes, that was a low remark, but one that should put in perspective who is saying what.
"But you couldn't avoid posting" yada yada, that would only mean this place was allowed to spread propaganda without contrary voices. I am contrary.
If this was just a remembrance of the ending of one of the most horryfing events in human history, I'd be all for it. As a matter of fact, even the premise implies that this is not.
Post edited November 12, 2019 by Enebias
Posted November 12, 2019
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Enebias: I'd like to remind you that this is a thread about US Veterans. NOT remembrance day. It had the explicit intention of thanking soldiers for, quoting directly: "choosing to sacrifice your time to protect your country's interests". If this isn't political, nothing is.
No matter how one views it, people don't need to make it political(or more so than it seems)....to me that's like throwing fuel on a fire/perceived fire because "why not?"

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Enebias: Also, being accused of turning things into politics by you of all people sounds a bit forced, doesn't it? I never got banned for that in the first place.
Yes, that was a low remark, but one that should put in perspective who is saying what.
Myself aside(and not saying I agree with that by saying this, but...), are you saying that if a criminal has good ideas they shouldn't be considered valid because I criminal said them?

That is a general example and I hope you get what i'm trying to say.

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Enebias: "But you couldn't avoid posting" yada yada, that would only mean this place was allowed to spread propaganda without contrary voices. I am contrary.
Even if it were propaganda(which it wasn't imo...I think op was trying to do right and not spread any such propaganda for vile reasons), why bother correcting any perceived mistakes on gog? What does it solve or prove on the grand scheme of things?

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Enebias: If this was just a remembrance of the ending of one of the most horryfing events in human history, I'd be all for it. As a matter of fact, even the premise implies that this is not.
What if someone made a thread praising an italian specific holiday that other found offense with or saw as political? Would you be so quick as to interject?

Also you seem to be reading intent into the intent of the OP without much in the way of proof beyond a gut feeling.
Post edited November 12, 2019 by GameRager
Posted November 12, 2019
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If "offensive" holidays existed, sure.
Just, stop pretending this entire thing wasn't political from the start, that is not an opinion, but a fact: military and politics cannot be dissociated in any way, period. This is not a matter of debate. That said, I have clearly overstayed my welcome and I realize that anything I could have said would have resulted to argument, so I am not entirely blameless.
Why chiming in? Because I think the message implied in this whole topic is deeply, depply wrong - this, on contrary, is just an opinion and not a fact.
Posted November 12, 2019
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Enebias: Just, stop pretending this entire thing wasn't political from the start, that is not an opinion, but a fact: military and politics cannot be dissociated in any way, period. This is not a matter of debate.
People can still talk about such with simple replies that don't bring up politics much if at all, is what I am trying to say.

(Also maybe OP's heart was in the right place and they simply just wrote things that seem like they were made to be bad/political when they're not?)

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Enebias: That said, I have clearly overstayed my welcome and I realize that anything I could have said would have resulted to argument, so I am not entirely blameless.
Nor am I for carrying on as I have.....btw you at least admit when you might be partially to blame for some things which I can respect, so thanks for that.

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Enebias: Why chiming in? Because I think the message implied in this whole topic is deeply, deeply wrong - this, on contrary, is just an opinion and not a fact.
I get that, but if some(not just you) would have simply ignored the thread and let people just say things like "agreed op" or "happy veterans day" we could've avoided this thread turning out as it did....sometimes not speaking or mincing words can be the right course of action. :)

(But I see you are bowing out....have a good one, then, and if you ever want to talk on anything for any reason my PM box is open)
Post edited November 12, 2019 by GameRager
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionToday is Veterans' Day in the US.(57 posts)(57 posts)
(57 posts)