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General discussionTo the forum - my last will and testicle(231 posts)(231 posts)
(231 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 03, 2017
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fables22: To this I can only say that we did have a discussion about forum rules, and I was super willing to listen to suggestions and I even entertained the idea of having the community, more or less, create the rules themselves - because I thought that would be fair and right. Alas, all we got out of this were nasty arguments and petty fights, so I guess more than anything I'm shocked by the amount of people who think they're negotiable. They were negotiable but you weren't able to negotiate, now they're not negotiable. Period.

I don't know if it's just me or something but aren't you people getting a bit tired of the never-ending "we're just going in circles" discussions about all of this?
This is essentially what Goodaltgamer quoted as his reason for leaving the forum after that thread he had hoping to get suggestions for you to work with.
Posted March 03, 2017
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fables22: I'm not saying that I didn't expect it. I'm saying that I don't understand it - or more like, I'm pretty shocked by the amount of people who somehow seem to think they should be exempt from these rules, for whatever reason.
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Gersen: I don't think it's really peoples who want to be exempted from these rules or even think that said rules are bad per se. I see it more as peoples who are worried at how you will enforce said rules.
There's definitely grounds for concern on that count, but from my own personal experience, whenever there's legitimate nastiness that breaks out -- be it personal attacks, or hate speech (being speech which actually conveys hate towards a specific group), it's justified or defended by people saying either, "Oh you're just being too offended over nothing", or "Well, I have the right to say whatever I want." Usually the latter comes about whenever talk about forum abuse leads to any talk about moderation.

And as others like skeletonbow have pointed out, I've come to see that that's what people are trying to defend: their right to say whatever they want, to whoever they want, with no consequence whatsoever. As if their "freedom of speech" (combined with the near consequence-free anonymity and audience afforded by this forum) absolves them of any personal responsibility or obligation to have any common decency.

What's promising is that fables has tried to be as open and transparent as possible with the community about moderation. They could have just shown up, put up a forum sticky, and then started closing threads and banning people left right and centre. But they didn't. Even now fables is trying to be as open as they can about the rules and how they'll go about moderating things.

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Gersen: I think a lot of peoples have been burned multiple times by some moderators that tend to moderate based on their own bias and feelings rather than on the actual rules themselves; as in being over-zealous against those they disagree with while being too lenient toward those with which their opinions aligns.
Fair enough but that's where transparency and consistency will be important. If I start getting nasty with someone for holding homophobic views that should get me just as much censure as someone who gets nasty with someone who's LGTBQ.
Posted March 03, 2017
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fables22: I don't know if it's just me or something but aren't you people getting a bit tired of the never-ending "we're just going in circles" discussions about all of this?
Carousel discussions? Yeah, it's very dizzying. Seems a bit like a vortex too, as I always get myself sucked into them.

Also, how dare you address us as 'you people'? XD
Posted March 03, 2017
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tinyE: The new head of The United States Department of Housing and Urban Development thinks the pyramids were built to store grain.
You mean [url=http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Pyramids_(Civ2)]they[/url] [url=http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Pyramids_(Civ3)]weren't[/url]?
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tinyE: The new head of The United States Department of Housing and Urban Development thinks the pyramids were built to store grain.
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toxicTom: [url=http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Pyramids_(Civ2)]That's essentially true.[/url]
Ninja'd. Hard. With the same link, even. :(
Post edited March 03, 2017 by Bookwyrm627
Posted March 03, 2017
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fables22: In all honesty, I'm pretty shocked at the amount of people who seem to think the rules are "negotiable" or will change because they personally dislike them, especially if they repeatedly try and make it clear just how much they dislike them. Or because they personally dislike moderation.
Well that clearly isn't the fucking case in this instance.
We have had plenty of agitators and the professionally outraged causing trouble in an attempt to bring extra censorship and judging by this thread they have succeeded. So by definition the rules are obviously open to manipulation.

Maybe if you had pulled your finger out of your butt and stopped them shitting on that thread then we wouldn't have the problem now unless GoG was wanting an excuse to turn this forum into another neogaf.

And the times when hate speech was a subjective matter are long gone too - it's become a lot more than just that.
The selective interpretation of those rules is what will concern most posters. at least the rules below are being broken in this thread.

Stay on topic. This is especially important inside the “question / problem topics”, as they are created for the sole purpose of helping other community members. Non-constructive and off-topic posts can ruin such threads instantly;

- Don't spam or troll. Posting in topics or threads for the sole purpose of flooding and causing unrest on the forums,
Posted March 03, 2017
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fables22: In all honesty, I'm pretty shocked at the amount of people who seem to think the rules are "negotiable" or will change because they personally dislike them, especially if they repeatedly try and make it clear just how much they dislike them. Or because they personally dislike moderation.
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Spectre: Well that clearly isn't the fucking case in this instance.
We have had plenty of agitators and the professionally outraged causing trouble in an attempt to bring extra censorship and judging by this thread they have succeeded. So by definition the rules are obviously open to manipulation.

Maybe if you had pulled your finger out of your butt and stopped them shitting on that thread then we wouldn't have the problem now unless GoG was wanting an excuse to turn this forum into another neogaf.

And the times when hate speech was a subjective matter are long gone too - it's become a lot more than just that.
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Spectre: The selective interpretation of those rules is what will concern most posters. at least the rules below are being broken in this thread.

Stay on topic. This is especially important inside the “question / problem topics”, as they are created for the sole purpose of helping other community members. Non-constructive and off-topic posts can ruin such threads instantly;

- Don't spam or troll. Posting in topics or threads for the sole purpose of flooding and causing unrest on the forums,
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Spectre:
First off, I said numerous times that the forum rules are undergoing an overhaul and the new version would be published very soon - it goes into more detail so, or at least I hope so, it'll be less "open to interpretation".

Furthermore, I really don't appreciate the attitude - luckily enough, the forum rule update does also include a paragraph on the treatment of GOG staff so hopefully I (and others) won't have to deal with abusive comments directed at myself/ourselves any longer either. I am open to constructive criticism more than the next guy, but throwing insults my way just because you happen to think that if we don't allow hate speech, abuse, and intimidation we are automatically cutting down on some of our users' liberties and rights (newsflash: we aren't) is not cool.

Oh and - consider this a friendly reminder that if you should throw any more insults my way, it might have a consequence.
Posted March 03, 2017
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fables22: I don't know if it's just me or something but aren't you people getting a bit tired of the never-ending "we're just going in circles" discussions about all of this?
Yes. It's very definitely not just you. Such discussions are highly polarized with many on both sides of the stance that they will essentially continue endlessly until the other side concedes. That never solves anything ever of course, so the options end up being to let it go on endlessly, or put an end to it more or less.

Whatever brings an increase in civility and reduction of hostility gets my vote whether there are any votes being cast or not pretty much.
Posted March 03, 2017
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fables22:
There's no point putting yourself on the front lines, answering users directly and attempting to justify yourself. It won't change the opinions of users
Posted March 03, 2017
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fables22:
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timmy010: It won't change the opinions of users
Indeed. The best option would be to close this forum entirely and adopt a new good forum engine.
New forum - new rules. That will be fair. And people won't feel that they've been robbed.
If i won't like forum rules - i will not register. Problem solved.
Posted March 03, 2017
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fables22: I'm not saying that I didn't expect it. I'm saying that I don't understand it - or more like, I'm pretty shocked by the amount of people who somehow seem to think they should be exempt from these rules, for whatever reason.
It isn't "whatever reason". It's 0.000001% enforcement over the past 8+ years. That lack of enforcement has set up expectations. Yes, it's your place. We get that. But this is a clear case of giving rope, and giving more rope, and more rope on top of that, and then saying you're suddenly going to start jerking it back. However one chooses to see it, the reality is that there should have been a drag on that rope all along so there were no surprises.

We'll see how it goes. I'm not expecting a big change, but please understand why there's griping. You're proposing taking away something that shouldn't have been allowed in the first place, but that behavior was given tacit approval by a near-complete lack of enforcement of your (gOg) own rules over nearly the entire life of the forum.

It's no different from parking all the time in the same No Parking zone, BSing with the cop at your car while parked there, not getting ticketed for all that time, and then he suddenly starts writing tickets because "It's a problem". Would you WTF a little bit? It was a problem all along.
Posted March 03, 2017
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vsr: Indeed. The best option would be to close this forum entirely and adopt a new good forum engine.
New forum - new rules. That will be fair. And people won't feel that they've been robbed.
If i won't like forum rules - i will not register. Problem solved.
CDPR has far superior forum software, so in theory GOG could adopt that since well... just since.
Posted March 03, 2017
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fables22: I'm not saying that I didn't expect it. I'm saying that I don't understand it - or more like, I'm pretty shocked by the amount of people who somehow seem to think they should be exempt from these rules, for whatever reason.
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HereForTheBeer: It isn't "whatever reason". It's 0.000001% enforcement over the past 8+ years. That lack of enforcement has set up expectations. Yes, it's your place. We get that. But this is a clear case of giving rope, and giving more rope, and more rope on top of that, and then saying you're suddenly going to start jerking it back. However one chooses to see it, the reality is that there should have been a drag on that rope all along so there were no surprises.

We'll see how it goes. I'm not expecting a big change, but please understand why there's griping. You're proposing taking away something that shouldn't have been allowed in the first place, but that behavior was given tacit approval by a near-complete lack of enforcement of your (gOg) own rules over nearly the entire life of the forum.

It's no different from parking all the time in the same No Parking zone, BSing with the cop at your car while parked there, not getting ticketed for all that time, and then he suddenly starts writing tickets because "It's a problem". Would you WTF a little bit? It was a problem all along.
I don't know. Going by your analogy, it's a bit strange that there are many people around here still who would choose to not park in the No Parking zone, but some people think that parking in the No Parking zone is completely OK just because there's no policemen around. It's a sad way to conduct oneself and an even more sad way to lead one's life. So to answer your question: no, I wouldn't WTF because I wouldn't be parked there in the first place.

Either way, I'm done discussing the rules, why they're being enforced, why now, and how. I'll only be responding to direct, constructive questions regarding the forum rules, but not until the new ones are officially up.

That is not to say that I won't be present, though, so please - and that's for everyone - do keep that in mind.
Posted March 03, 2017
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fables22: Furthermore, I really don't appreciate the attitude - luckily enough, the forum rule update does also include a paragraph on the treatment of GOG staff so hopefully I (and others) won't have to deal with abusive comments directed at myself/ourselves any longer either. I am open to constructive criticism more than the next guy, but throwing insults my way just because you happen to think that if we don't allow hate speech, abuse, and intimidation we are automatically cutting down on some of our users' liberties and rights (newsflash: we aren't) is not cool.

Oh and - consider this a friendly reminder that if you should throw any more insults my way, it might have a consequence.
Accurate criticism, my dear, accurate abrupt criticism.
There has been no insults and no one asking for hate speech, abuse, and intimidation here.




p.s maybe it would be better if there were just game forums with game topics.
Post edited March 03, 2017 by Spectre
Posted March 03, 2017
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I would so park in a no parking zone. Rules are made to be broken. Haha.
Posted March 03, 2017
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fables22:
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timmy010: There's no point putting yourself on the front lines, answering users directly and attempting to justify yourself. It won't change the opinions of users
For example we could discuss how other forums have went down this path and the problems that come with it.
A handful of posters including the OP have described problems and offered a few solutions.

Obviously there are many reasons not to follow your thinly veiled attempt at shutting the discussion down.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionTo the forum - my last will and testicle(231 posts)(231 posts)
(231 posts)