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zeogold: Right. Basically you're the PR person or whathaveyou, correct?
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fables22: No, we have other PR people.
Ok...ONE OF the PR people.
Edit: Imagine, if you had your own CD, you could be a CD PR person....heheheheheh. Heheh. Heh.
Re-edit: I should really go to bed.
Post edited March 06, 2017 by zeogold
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fables22: No, we have other PR people.
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zeogold: Ok...ONE OF the PR people.
Edit: Imagine, if you had your own CD, you could be a CD PR person....heheheheheh. Heheh. Heh.
Re-edit: I should really go to bed.
The worst.
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fables22: In all honesty, I'm pretty shocked at the amount of people who seem to think the rules are "negotiable" or will change because they personally dislike them, especially if they repeatedly try and make it clear just how much they dislike them. Or because they personally dislike moderation. I tried to ask the community where they wanted to take the forum in the future, and how they want it to be moderated, and all we got out of it were disgusting arguments, and nothing changed. There's a very good reason as to why rules, in general, exist, and why we don't live in anarchy.

The current state of the forum discourages healthy discussions and, by extension, discourages new users from wanting to take part in those discussions. And the times when hate speech was a subjective matter are long gone too - it's become a lot more than just that.
the forum was always, in many ways an extension of the philosophies that you see from the company that created it, a place that was a little freer, a little looser, than many others like it. certainly those others of an official and not entirely independent or unaffiliated nature. this was never historically a problem because though this atmosphere was not strictly controlled, the freedom and faith in the users generally produced a place where well-meaning and thoughtfulness won out and it more or less self-moderated. you'd always see stuff you might not in a moderated environment, but it always steered clear of harassment, personal attacks, disruptive behaviour, and generally anything that would have a negative effect. to be sure, there were politics, but they didn't sour the forum for lots of people. they existed, the forum existed, it wasn't a problem. then a few idiots showed up and started poisoning the place. with no stopgaps and less or no zero-tolerance policies for things that you'd normally find them for in those previously mentioned other places, combined with a certain amount of persistence for the idiocy from the idiots, the ph level of the forum started to change subtly until one day you started to see the veterans dropping like flies. that's pretty much what happened as far as I'm concerned. maybe it was inevitable that as gog gained greater awareness that something like this would happen, and maybe you see the ultimate solution as the implementation of a better rule framework. I'm not weighing in. I just wanted you to understand that it's not because the forum was fairly unregulated, it's because some people showed up and screwed it over.
Post edited March 06, 2017 by johnnygoging
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fables22: In all honesty, I'm pretty shocked at the amount of people who seem to think the rules are "negotiable" or will change because they personally dislike them, especially if they repeatedly try and make it clear just how much they dislike them. Or because they personally dislike moderation. I tried to ask the community where they wanted to take the forum in the future, and how they want it to be moderated, and all we got out of it were disgusting arguments, and nothing changed. There's a very good reason as to why rules, in general, exist, and why we don't live in anarchy.

The current state of the forum discourages healthy discussions and, by extension, discourages new users from wanting to take part in those discussions. And the times when hate speech was a subjective matter are long gone too - it's become a lot more than just that.
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johnnygoging: the forum was always, in many ways an extension of the philosophies that you see from the company that created it, a place that was a little freer, a little looser, than many others like it. certainly those others of an official and not entirely independent or unaffiliated nature. this was never historically a problem because though this atmosphere was not strictly controlled, the freedom and faith in the users generally produced a place where well-meaning and thoughtfulness won out and it more or less self-moderated. you'd always see stuff you might not in a moderated environment, but it always steered clear of harassment, personal attacks, disruptive behaviour, and generally anything that would have a negative effect. to be sure, there were politics, but they didn't sour the forum for lots of people. they existed, the forum existed, it wasn't a problem. then a few idiots showed up and started poisoning the place. with no stopgaps and less or no zero-tolerance policies for things that you'd normally find them for in those previously mentioned other places, combined with a certain amount of persistence for the idiocy from the idiots, the ph level of the forum started to change subtly until one day you started to see the veterans dropping like flies. that's pretty much what happened as far as I'm concerned. maybe it was inevitable that as gog gained greater awareness that something like this would happen, and maybe you see the ultimate solution as the implementation of a better rule framework. I'm not weighing in. I just wanted you to understand that it's not because the forum was fairly unregulated, it's because some people showed up and screwed it over.
Yes and no. The problem did arise from the fact that there was pretty much no regulation whatsoever, once those people showed up. To me the two are very much interconnected.
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johnnygoging: I just wanted you to understand that it's not because the forum was fairly unregulated, it's because some people showed up and screwed it over.
That's kinda like saying a national park becoming a toxic wasteland isn't because of the absence of regulations against companies dumping waste in its streams but because there are parties unethical enough to dump their waste there.

Yes, it's ultimately those companies who caused things to turn to crap, but it seems to be human nature to test boundaries and see how far they stretch. "Assume the best, but prepare for the worst" is the whole reason communities and society have laws to begin with. Because "I can get away with it" is a justification of bad behavior that's as old as humanity itself.
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fables22: In all honesty, I'm pretty shocked at the amount of people who seem to think the rules are "negotiable" or will change because they personally dislike them, especially if they repeatedly try and make it clear just how much they dislike them. Or because they personally dislike moderation. I tried to ask the community where they wanted to take the forum in the future, and how they want it to be moderated, and all we got out of it were disgusting arguments, and nothing changed. There's a very good reason as to why rules, in general, exist, and why we don't live in anarchy.

The current state of the forum discourages healthy discussions and, by extension, discourages new users from wanting to take part in those discussions. And the times when hate speech was a subjective matter are long gone too - it's become a lot more than just that.
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johnnygoging: the forum was always, in many ways an extension of the philosophies that you see from the company that created it, a place that was a little freer, a little looser, than many others like it. certainly those others of an official and not entirely independent or unaffiliated nature. this was never historically a problem because though this atmosphere was not strictly controlled, the freedom and faith in the users generally produced a place where well-meaning and thoughtfulness won out and it more or less self-moderated. you'd always see stuff you might not in a moderated environment, but it always steered clear of harassment, personal attacks, disruptive behaviour, and generally anything that would have a negative effect. to be sure, there were politics, but they didn't sour the forum for lots of people. they existed, the forum existed, it wasn't a problem. then a few idiots showed up and started poisoning the place. with no stopgaps and less or no zero-tolerance policies for things that you'd normally find them for in those previously mentioned other places, combined with a certain amount of persistence for the idiocy from the idiots, the ph level of the forum started to change subtly until one day you started to see the veterans dropping like flies. that's pretty much what happened as far as I'm concerned. maybe it was inevitable that as gog gained greater awareness that something like this would happen, and maybe you see the ultimate solution as the implementation of a better rule framework. I'm not weighing in. I just wanted you to understand that it's not because the forum was fairly unregulated, it's because some people showed up and screwed it over.
I see you joined in 2013, which means you probably where not around at the times of TeT. It has not "always" been like this, it has been a gradual decline in the forums since TeT quit, and they did not employ a new community manager, but more or less just let the forums slide. In truth, Fabels ls is currently a more hands-off (and kinder?) manager than TeT was (though he did it with a lot of soul, humor and Shakespeare).

In those original times, it was not uncommon for him to change peoples posts or thread names, warn people publicly when over-stepping the mark and even swinging the ban hammer. Though the moderation even then was fairly hands-off and casual (freer and looser) than most store owned forums, it was still enforced when it got too far, and this is lacking today.

I do wish Fables the best of luck getting this troubled forum back up on its feet, and any any support I can give I will. I miss those times.

Edit -it does remind me of the old tech support joke: From the managers memo - "We have almost no technical problems, but employ 3 technicians. So it should fire 2 of them to save some money"
Post edited March 06, 2017 by amok
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fables22: You seem to know an awful lot about the hiring process and about me :) I actually moved to Poland AFTER I'd already started the job :)
We know you really did it for easy access to an endless supply of pierogi though, be honest! :)
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fables22: You seem to know an awful lot about the hiring process and about me :) I actually moved to Poland AFTER I'd already started the job :)
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skeletonbow: We know you really did it for easy access to an endless supply of pierogi though, be honest! :)
Oh god, not pierogis again!
Off-topic: that's a paddlin'.
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johnnygoging: [..] I just wanted you to understand that it's not because the forum was fairly unregulated, it's because some people showed up and screwed it over.
^ I agree with all your post.
But you should really work on your paragraph skill :P
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fables22: Oh god, not pierogis again!
I think GOG should sell them on the website, shipped globally personally. :)
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Crackpot.756: Seriously though, if a joke made by a random stranger on the Internet can actively harm you, you should probably get off the Internet and into therapy.
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dtgreene: Please don't blame the victim.
I blame the victim psychology that infects people's minds these days.
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Lin545: It a shame you decided to walk the road, but I see where this is coming through Emob78. Seeing that reason is mostly uncontrollable chaos damaging the family friendless on this part of GOG business, I have offered the something very similar what you call "2nd option" in rules thread. Realistically, I doubt the idea to turn community into international free discussion forum was part of GOG's vision anyways...
I've never understood people thinking GOG is "family friendly" to begin with. Its most basic niche is old games, which appeals to a certain type of gamer, which is probably going to be older to begin with.
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sanscript: Frack, censoring just because someone is a little butthurt and can't handle others opinion or humor, is NOT the way to get control.
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dtgreene: I would argue that people tend to use the "it's just a joke" argument to get out of punishment. When the "joke" actively harms others, then that excuse should not be valid, and the post should be moderated, even if it's "just a joke". (So, for example, a "joke" about killing Jewish people, for example, would not be acceptable.)

There are plenty of clean jokes our there that wouldn't be offensive. In general, a joke that empowers its target, rather than denigrating it, is preferred.

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mm324: unfortunately common sense isn't so common. :/
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dtgreene: "common sense" is sometimes outright wrong, so be careful. If you think X is true, and your reason is "common sense", you might want to look up whether it *is* true. This comes up *a lot* in controversial topics.
Except when someone who has a joking nature makes a joke about something, and has a history of irreverence towards all topics, why does that person deserve punishment to begin with? If your analogy is regarding someone who say, theoretically only makes jokes about Jews, or the color blue, for whatever reason, and let's say we live in a world where blue haters is deemed controversial, I'd understand your point. The perception people like you have laid, though, is that ANY jokes dealing with controversial subject matter should be punished, and not only should they be punished, you should find out their personal info and go on a crusade to ruin that person's life.

We're adults. We're not children. If something goes against my core values, I have the right to not give those things my time of day. I ignore it and move onto something in my life that does deserve my attention. I don't announce a massive intifada against blue haters and make it a mission to destroy all people who hate blue.

What most of us middle of the road people want is simple: use your right to ignore. Heck, feel free to express yourself in why you didn't like it, but stop labeling people who disagree with you as vile dregs of humanity, simply because they had the temerity to challenge your assertions.