This is something cRPGs need to explore more and consider borrowing more from ttRPGs. You simply can't rest because you have a goal and there's a time limit. If you take time to rest, the villain would get away with what they are trying. While it's really tough (AKA, likely impossible) to model "villain wins, progress anyway" in a video game, you can model it such that resting is prohibited during important sequences.

Note: I'm NOT saying at all to make the sequence actually timed. That's trash. Just do a check-point save before the time-limited [as in in-game-world timed, not real-world-timed] segment starts, there's no resting during it, and, if you fail during it, you restart at that check point [or at your last manual save, which likely should include the checkpoint before inside to prevent softlocks].

I realize this isn't novel -- some games have things like this. Most jRPGs, at least in the SNES era, sort of did this with their "this whole dungeon has no save points, you have to do it in one bit".

I enjoy "resource management" elements in games, and excessive resource regen breaks that. Having too little recovery does as well. Make sure the dungeon isn't toooo long that you have to add restoration points in it, and certainly don't always include one right before the boss.

When time and safety are no object -- like most games' overworld traveling -- healing should just be "full up after every battle" in most cases.

Other topics in here:
* I don't like" things like "walk HP/MP up" or pure time-based regen. They're not ever fun.
* I'm ok with mid-sequence/mid-dungeon recovery that is plot-based (e.g., "[skippable] cutscene shows something, safe rest occurs this once")
* dtgreene previously had us discuss "Should you recover when you level up?" and we had very mixed opinions. I'm generally on the "only gain what's new for that level, don't fully recover" side.

The LP system of some SaGa games is like this. HP is easy to restore; it often recovers as soon as the battle is over (or, more precisely, the game only tracks HP during battle). LP, on the other hand, is harder to restore, depending on the game. In Romancing SaGa 2, it requires an item of which there are a very limited number in the game. (You can buy them, but the shop can run out of inventory, to my understanding.) In Romancing SaGa 3 and SaGa Frontier 2, as well as the Romancing SaGa 1 remake, you need to rest in town to recover LP, or else use a very rare consumable. SaGa Frontier 1 is the only one here that lets you restore LP by having the character sit out.

There are some games that limit resurrections with an LP-like mechanic; we see this in SaGa 1, as well as in Stranger of Sword City (Revisited); the former makes resurrection cheap but LP recovery more expensive (need LP to be revived), while the latter requires that you fight a lot of battles with the character staying in the hospital to recover (or use a rare consumable).

Incidentally, your option of making divine spells more costly would not work in the settings I would likely make. In these settings, either:
* Divine magic doesn't exist; there's only arcane magic, and arcane magic covers healing spells.
* Or, if divine magic does exist, it's not for healing. Healing comes from arcane, not divine. (This idea is the result of an atheistic world view regarding the role of religion. What divine casters *do* get are spells of destruction and manipulation, especially the latter.)

This is the sort of mechanic I really don't like, and would prefer to avoid in general, unless there's some way to reset time. The drawbacks of having a time limit aren't worth the increased challenge of resource management.


Another idea is to allow the player to keep experience (or the comparable mechanic) gained during that sequence if the player should fail; this way, if the player is unable to complete the sequence, the player can keep trying and eventually earn enough XP for them to succeed.

(Or, alternatively, make the game non-linear so that the player can do something else instead and come back later when they're stronger.)

As long as the segment is not too long for one playing session. (I'm thinking Final Fantasy 3's endgame as a chief offender here, though Arc the Lad 2 also has this problem at one point.)

Also, if the game is going to provide the player with a free rest (for example, right before the final boss, or in FF3's case, right after you lose the unwinnable boss fight in the final dungeon), the game should also allow the player to save; this would have mitigated the issue in both FF3 and Arc the Lad 2 (the dungeon I'm thinking of has a rest spot without a save spot).

Problem is that not putting one before the boss will result in players avoiding using interesting abilities because they feel they need to conserve resources for the boss fight.

Incidentally, I'm of the opinion that not every dungeon needs a boss, and that ideally the game should telegraph whether a dungeon has a boss before the player enters it. When every dungeon has a boss, it starts to feel repetitive; Dragon Quest 9 and Lennus 2 feel like that for a good portion of those games (though both games eventually break out of it; DQ9 puts the boss at the *start* of one compound dungeon, while Lennus 2, after a certain point, gives you a bunch of bossless dungeons for a bit.

I agree with that, as a full heal on level up breaks the resource management aspect of the game. (This happens in Final Fantasy Adventure, where I find myself never needing to use Ethers, even on a pure mage playthrough, because I'd level up when I'm about to run out of MP.)

Sorry I wasn't clear. Absolute no to real-time time limits. I meant time like there's an imaginary "this is urgent!" in-game thing that you can't be doing side quests or traipsing in other dungeons while you're on this "timed" quest.

Actually, I'd prefer not having automatic full heals on the world map, mainly because it would dilute the tension that you get in a game like Dragon Quest 2, where you're about to reach a new town but are running low on MP and the enemies could kill you at any moment. (The area after the Cave to Rhone but before the Monolith of Rhone there is one of the most tense sections in any RPG I've ever played. Oh, and this is done without any boss fights happening in this section.)

Except that:
* Finding an inn may not be reasonable, particularly if the city is large.
* In some games, it's not so easy to tell if you're "some steps out of the village". (Daggerfall and Morrowind come to mind here) (It's the same problem as "you can't rest because monsters are nearby".)

Well, divine magic, arcane magic, medicine or anything else depends on the setting, it doesn't really matter as long as it is something requiring a specialization and some not-too-easy-to-access tools.

Worth noting that I was replying to the post as I was reading it.

Incidentally, I think it would be interesting, even if just as a joke, to have mods that would take away all limitations on resting. Perhaps I'm floating in mid-air (thanks to a Levitate spell, or even in the middle of a powerful Jump spell), fighting a bunch of Cliff Racers, and I want to be able to rest then, even though it wouldn't make sense to. Or maybe I want to rest before I land so I have enough health to weather the blow from falling damage (another mechanic I don't like).

Also, how about a mod for one of these games that gets rid of the inability to save after you've died? (In Oblivion, I've tried to use the console to save while dead, but the game wouldn't let me.)

* On making the game non-linear: Some parts should be linear, part of the point of my "preferred method". I went in with the general assumption that most of the game is non-linear, or at least allows roaming, except when flagged.
* Keeping XP on fail when returning to the pre-"time limit" checkpoint: yes, that's usually a good idea.
* Agree on not always needing a boss. Sometimes a dungeon is just making it through to the other side.
* On auto-heals in field, I'd imagine certain areas are flagged with 'safety'. Like, "always heal max here, it's safe to camp" vs "this area is treacherous". It could even possibly change over game, as you clean up an area, or even after first-pass.
D&D famously has some spells useful for this: rope trick, tiny hut, magnificent mansion. They don't stop time, but they can give you haven where there might not otherwise be any.

I love the inns in Skyrim and the bard songs that happens in real time like "The Dragonborn Comes". You can rest if you pay for it and it will replenish your HP and Magicka and lets you level up if playing Survival Mode.

Interesting, but I don't think they would work in the situations I'm describing.
In D&D terms, for example, I'm already falling, so I want the rest to heal me enough to survive the fall, or alternatively allow me to prepare a Festher Fall spell so that I can cast it after waking up in order to prevent the falling damage. Can these spells even work without a surface? (Keep in mind that this character, for this purpose, doesn't have flight.)

Also, are there any CRPGs that implement any of these spells or comparable ones? I don't think I've seen one, except maybe a special ability in Throne of Bhaal. (It's interesting how BG2 implements spells you don't usually see in CRPGs; it's just a shame that the game suffers from a bad combat system and a tendency to force timed quests on you when you're just minding your own vision, plus forcing you to rely on bad pathfinding instead of being able to directly move characters.)

For all these questions you ask, usually the different games that implement the different systems do it in such a way that it is made to fit into that game. So the answer will always be: "I prefer the one that works with the game'.

Having said that, it irks my inner cheapskate at a fundamental level to pay money to rest, so even in those games where as you said it is part of the core loop to do it, I don't (they usually have some other way to rest/recover HP).

Of course, sometimes you don't have that option.

For example, in the original Dragon Quest, at levels 1 and 2 there's no way to heal without paying at the inn, using an herb (which costs money), or dying (which costs half your gold). (At level 3, you get a healing spell, and someone in Tentangel Castle will restore your MP for free.)

There's also the occasional game where you need to pay to rest to save the game; the two examples I can think of are Phantasy Star 3 and Final Fantasy. In these two games, the *only* way to save is to go to the inn and pay to rest (or, in the Final Fantasy case, use a Tent or similar item on the world map, which gets used up).

For me, requiring resting is something that under all scenarios takes away from the enjoyment of the game and adds to the frustration. Depending on the game, it's something I deal with better or worse, but it's in no way desirable.
Maybe the most reasonable implementation is when it has to do with a survival aspect, if the game keeps track of time and characters need to sleep roughly daily because they get sleepy, in which case they can push through but get progressively weaker, not just in order to recover health or mana or whatever else.
When it comes to those, I much prefer mana to regenerate rapidly and healing magic to be readily available pretty much from the beginning, so if you have a moment you heal up and are good to go again (and health may also regenerate on its own, albeit more slowly, but if that healing magic works like that, this is not needed). Note that this does not exclude a secondary health system, like wounds, which may be harder to cure.

Either way, if resting is needed, definitely don't restrict it only to certain spots. May well have certain guaranteed safe spots, and those may be inns that charge a fee, and those may also make the characters recover faster, which can be relevant if there's a survival aspect such as needing to eat, but resting should also be allowed in other places unless under imminent threat, just that it'll carry the risk of being interrupted by enemies (and to get rid of that "can't rest because of enemies but can't see the enemies" situation, when that message pops up, it means the characters are well aware of the threat, so it should also be pointed out to the player - though, if used sparingly, there may be a small number of areas that are considered too dangerous by nature to risk resting at all).