Posted May 31, 2016

babark
Pirate Mullah
Registered: Dec 2010
From Pakistan

Breja
You're in my spot
Registered: Apr 2012
From Poland
Posted May 31, 2016
As long as there is somewhere before that some sensible indication of what that item might be, then I'd say no. It's still not something I'd applaud, but I wouldn't call it quite as broken anymore. But if there is no indication before, and there is no way for you to know that some totally unremarkable, never mentioned item among plethora of others is important, then just asking me "are you forgeting something?" changes nothing.
Post edited May 31, 2016 by Breja

Starmaker
go Clarice!
Registered: Sep 2010
From Russian Federation
Posted May 31, 2016

[url=https://www.gog.com/game/consortium_the_master_edition][2]
While these situations usually make the game HARDCORE enough for Real Gamers [tm] (sarcasm), which is a failure of design because it doesn't add anything to the experience, I'd love to see more games where it's done on purpose and done well.
Competently done unwinnable situations, supported by a solid save/rollback system, can comprise a meta-puzzle and be framed as playing with causality, exploring relationships between characters (friendly or adversarial depending on minute changes), figuring out what makes people tick, reflecting on the human condition and on life itself.
Like, normally, you'd want to save anywhere, but there are (roguelite) games which don't allow saves on demand because occasionally failing individual tasks is a major part of the game, experience being conveyed that would be lost with save-on-demand. You can't really play a grand strategy "properly" if you reload until you win every single battle, because coping with unforeseen setbacks is a part of the game. Similarly, I don't think you could play a genius schemer in an adventure if it can't be lost, you can do no wrong, and the gameplay consists of throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks.
For example,


Kardwill
New User
Registered: Sep 2010
From France
Posted June 01, 2016

1. There's an item obtainable early in the game, but for whatever reason you don't obtain that item.
2, At some point, something happens and there's no way to go back and get the item.
3. Later in the game, you reach a point where that item is required to progress.
Hence, after 2, the game is now unwinnable, and that doesn't become apparent until 3. Therefore, you can waste many hours playing through the game and not realize that you have already made the game unwinnable.
But yeah, the whole "you missed something at the beginning, so now you have to replay 8 hours of completely linear gameplay" is a no-go for me.
Having consequences to my choices that will lead me to a "bad end" in a non-linear game, I'm okay with. I like visual novels that rely on that mechanic, and it works because a-the game is non linear, and thus doing another playthrough will allow me to "explore" the game and/or its story, and b-I get an actual conclusion to the story, even if it is not the "happy ending".
But simply being blocked from continuing and having to replay the exact same things for 10+ hours in the hope that I will get it right this time, with no real challenge since I already solved all the riddles? Nooope! I'll simply drop the game and play another one.
Even when I was playing my first adventure games in the 80', when I was a student and had plenty of time, I thought dead ends sucked, and I like them even less nowadays.
Worst thing : If you don't play with a walkthrough, you might not even KNOW you're in a dead end. And so you try for hours to unlock the car with a banana and 3 bubblegums, using every one of your 40 items on every pixel of the 12 rooms you have access to. You won't know you could have picked the car key from the jacket that you can find behind the potted plant before the professor leaves the house, in the first 20 minutes of the game. You'll just know you're stuck...

phaolo
Durik - Half-Orc
Registered: Dec 2013
From Italy
Posted June 01, 2016

EDIT: Wha.. I didn't see those replies before.. super ninja'd
Post edited June 01, 2016 by phaolo

Arghmage
Very New User
Registered: Sep 2008
From Germany
Posted June 01, 2016

You can die in all other games, you can lose in racing games but in Adventures you can't die, you can't lose. Basically Lucas Arts was "stop using your brain, our games are dumb, linear, easy". It works when the game is written good and it's stil fun to play (MI1+2, Fate of Atlantis) but falls flat on is face when it offers nothing but a mediocre story you play in a linear fashion with no challenge at all (The Dig, the crappy Monkey Islands afterwards). Imagination any other game, let's say Witcher, GTA or whatever, where you simply can't die at all, you never get stuck, you solve all problems with ease (let's say time limits and other challenges are killed), how much fun would that be?
I prefer Adventures that are just the same as every other video game out there: Challenging.
(Finding that combination may take around 250 hours.)
For me would this a waste of time, but for you this would be the greatest gamer ever created?

Matewis
By Toutatis!
Registered: Jan 2011
From South Africa

JDelekto
Handler Level 2
Registered: Apr 2013
From United States
Posted June 01, 2016

1. There's an item obtainable early in the game, but for whatever reason you don't obtain that item.
2, At some point, something happens and there's no way to go back and get the item.
3. Later in the game, you reach a point where that item is required to progress.
However, if you kill the scientist, he would not be able to open the door. I did this once and found out just how 'smart' the game was. While I could not exit the room, turrets came down from the ceiling and began firing at me, attempts to dodge the gunfire were futile, I eventually died and had to go through the intro all over again.
Very, VERY clever on the part of the designers.

Smannesman
4-bit classic
Registered: Oct 2010
From Netherlands
Posted June 01, 2016
'Dead Man Walking Simulator' might make for a depressing game genre.

JDelekto
Handler Level 2
Registered: Apr 2013
From United States

Smannesman
4-bit classic
Registered: Oct 2010
From Netherlands
Posted June 01, 2016
I was going to say "I don't remember playing as the zombie that often", but then I remembered Stubbs the Zombie.
And in The Suffering I think you were on Death Row so that kinda counts right?
(for the other possible definition of dead man walking)
And in The Suffering I think you were on Death Row so that kinda counts right?
(for the other possible definition of dead man walking)
Post edited June 01, 2016 by Smannesman

Breja
You're in my spot
Registered: Apr 2012
From Poland
Posted June 01, 2016


JDelekto
Handler Level 2
Registered: Apr 2013
From United States
Posted June 01, 2016

And in The Suffering I think you were on Death Row so that kinda counts right?
(for the other possible definition of dead man walking)


Post edited June 01, 2016 by JDelekto

Matewis
By Toutatis!
Registered: Jan 2011
From South Africa
Posted June 01, 2016



JDelekto
Handler Level 2
Registered: Apr 2013
From United States
Posted June 01, 2016

