I was going to suggest that maybe you should just drop it, if neither of you enjoy talking to each other. And it doesn't look like you're going to come to any kind of agreement, either.

But then the thought occurred to me, that maybe this is some kind of bizarre hate/love thing you two got going. You just can't stay away from each other, even if neither of you will admit it. ;P

I'm pretty good at staying far from the creep, even when he cries for attention. And he actually often whines that I drop it too much instead of offering my time in a false dialogue with a narcissic anti-intellectual Blocher fanboy.

However I cannot systematically stay silent when he regurgitates his backwards party line and hypocritical rationalizations in the forums. It would be like letting Putin's professional trolls post as The Official Voice Of Russia, without any contextualization. Also, he's already quite comfortable sticking everywhere here the kind of sickening propaganda that some hope to escape from when browsing these pages, as a hobby of his. He does deserve some "yeah fuck you" in return, here and there.

I'd be more than happy if someone else would do it for me. I take no joy in stumbling here upon the clone of Blocher, Freysinger, and those other populist retards deliberately omnipresent in swiss media (through their "permanent campaign" strategy). If this piece of shit would cut it on his bill-poster crusade, I'd joyously ignore him.

To be honest, I'd even more happily browse this forum if both of us were banned.

Brilliant analysis from the same guy who doesn't see any issue with tintin in congo or blocherian propaganda. A reference.

There are too many problems in the world and too little time to deal with them. So agree with a New World Order.

After just filling out a few simple forms, a quick photo. Social media and criminal records check. As well as submitting your fingerprints, finger vein scan, iris scan, blood sample and DNA swab you can all collect your new ID card at the door.
We will assign you your new job (based on aptitude), house (based on job) and a new bank account with 1000$. All transportation, clothing, nourishment and healthcare will be provided for, and too your door. Your partner will be chosen via genetic and other testing for the most suitable educational, age and genetic mate.
You will sleep, eat, work, talk, walk, buy, exorcise serve and relax - when, how, for, and to, where we tell you.
Your children will be educated by the best teachers to the grandest of standards.
You will live purposefully and correctly within our society. Making the future of our society better through action and interaction.
You will find peace in your new home, a happy and safe place where you will never need worry. We will keep you safe with 24/7 policing, 8pm-7am curfews, organised military and fire service.
You will never be insulted, attacked or diminished as we will keep you safe and remove all of those who find order difficult to follow. We want happy citizens, and safe citizens are happy.
You will find your home and streets were never cleaner. Your job never more rewarding. Your nutrition never fresher. Your partner never more engaging. Your children never so loving. Or your life never better in any way shape or form.

There is no need to argue, no need to fear. The New World Order is here.*

*If your education, servitude, aptitude, genetics or health are not 100% compatible with those of the NWO we hold the right to keep our current members safe from you.
If such is the case please feel free to re-submit at a later date after further recreational improvement from your designated interment camp.




You may think I am attempting to re-derail the thread, but it was really only click bait anyway.
I want to point out that whilst the death of an individual is always a waste. Calling for everyone else to be "educated", or for people and society to be "fixed" will never really fix the problem. At best you will disguise the problem with something else.
We live in a violent world. Humans are violent creatures and whilst most are law abiding decent people some are obviously not.
I find it odd that people become fixated by the age, gender (yes, without women who will have the babies!!*jazz-hands*!), colour, nationality and sexual orientation of victims. Yet only in certain combinations.
If you did not know any of these facts would the death be any less traumatic. If it was someone who you knew would it be any less traumatic to know that they were 22, cis male, white, Irish and straight over being 22, trans-female, Asian, Japanise and bisexual?
Do you think it helps those who knew and loved the individual in their grievance? So why is one person, one lion, one teapot suddenly so much more important than some other individual?
Why no screaming from the balconies when a baby is murdered by a crazy mother, no cries of outrage or need for education when teenagers kill a neighbours pet, no shouting against the pot?

Wider society is only looking to further its own agenda, so they focus on what makes them look good, others look bad and places that nice divide to keep people at each other throats while it works on its own gains.
We are only muddying our own drinking water by keeping people tugging at each other whilst all of our leaders wage completely fucked-up wars somewhere, and find new ways to screw us over.
We are being our own enemies. Our own bogeymen. If that is the case I think you should look into the advert at the top of this post.

"Why no screaming from the balconies when a baby is murdered by a crazy mother, no cries of outrage or need for education when teenagers kill a neighbours pet, no shouting against the pot? "

But.. there are people who cry and scream over such stuff. They are just as important as any other person. Unfortunately, you can't fix the mental health of everyone, all at once. There is a stigma toward transgendered people in our society. That and that alone can be fixed, with education and simple tolerance of another persons opinion. Yes, that's right. Someone MIGHT be different from you. But, OH NO! YOU SAID EVERYONE IS THE SAME IN YOUR NEW WORLD ORDER! OH NO!!!!!!!!!
We're talking about making SURE people are ALLOWED to be different, not forced to be the same. So, who's the right one here? The corporate head-speak that wants you to all think the same, or the transgender people who are quite different from what most of us are used to?
Oh? Wait the NWO is right in this case? Well then!

Well Charles, Tranicus regularly hunts down "suspected" scammers and blasts them off the face of the earth - or used to - without little cause or proof. So yeah, I am simply returning his karma in kind, in public. Private PM's to him return me absolutely zero except PM's from whatever girl he's managed to wrangle into supporting him or pages of text from him directly.

So yeah - no.

His comments to me previously re: scammers he suspects? "Momo, you are being taken advantage of. Stop being kind to these people- they are NOT your friends".

Listen, I can decide who I will trust and who I will not trust. Tranicus has lost that trust and anything I have to say to him will be public.

In this case, he's clearly derailed the OP's thread with straw man arguments about how the OP's comments are not valid due to every other fucking world issue - wouldn't you agree? I am simply asking this "oh the world issues are sooo much more important than your "little" issue", to crawl back under his troll bridge and fuck off. So what is "private PM level" about that, I ask you?

Everyone, derailing is a GOG tradition. It's cultural and super obvious whether done via humor or earnestness.

I personally dislike seeing so much derailing on obviously serious and non mundane topics. Ignoring them would imo be kinder... Still if you want to keep a thread OT, well, if I'm the OP that's no one else's responsibility but mine. I can't force anyone else to care about the same things I do. So I ask, or ignore... I don't think getting angry at that necessity does anyone any good...

Neither can any of you force, shout, ban anyone into agreement, compliance or respect. This temptation to impose some system assuring a result you want, rather than convincing others to join you... It's dangerous folks, it's the totalitarian instinct.

Please resist it everyone.


Anyway, since I'm here, I'll again point out the hypocrisy. Seems some kinds of political concerns threads shouldn't be derailed on GOG. Other kind of politics shouldn't be posted. If that's your opinion you really should feel ashamed.

I wonder for an example which is chosen specifically to provoke, how making a post about Kate Steinle's killing would go down. Who am I kidding, I do know...

It's happened yet again (though, in this case, to a genderfluid person who (at the time of death) preferred male pronouns.

http://www.autostraddle.com/ashton-ohara-black-trans-and-genderfluid-has-been-murdered-im-running-out-of-hope-302881/
https://www.equalitymi.org/media-center/media-releases/equality-michigan-learns-murder-ashton-ohara

This is number 14 now.

Edit: Added another link

Edit 2: This one apparently went unreported for almost an entire month.

Shit. Not good. :( Do you think this could be in part reaction to the broader progress, by which I mean same sex marriage ruling from SC, as well increased visibility and tolerance of transgenderism?

Yeah, cause, like, racism and national-populist anti-intellectualism are, like, opinions, man. Although most forums have rules against it, decent forums collectively shame it, and heck, even Switzerland has laws against it (of course, laws that force the udc/svp to phrase things with care, therefore laws fought by the udc/svp - just because freedom of speech, mate, nothing to do with being switzerland's xenophobic party, it's just a coincidence there).

Very on topic, though. The more mainstream and publicly acceptable the reactionary discourse, the more validated, and self-legitimed its militants. Greece has had extremely violent governmental discourses for decades, about "self-defense versus foreigners", and golden dawn death squads flourish, condemned for "doing the wrong thing for the right reason", by officials who actually fuel their worldviews. And that is just the oh-so-shocking transgressions, but the most obscene policies, very real life, very not-just-words, are also sustained by direct or covert nationalist and xenophobic propaganda.

That is culture, the symptoms of its backwardness, its movements to progress, its struggle to regress, and its consequences. Trans people are "a thing", enough to be targetted by killers whose ideologies are certainly "oppressed by political correctness and sjw". Ignorance, racism, xenophobia is maintained by ultraconservative ultranationalist groups flattering people's ignorance and narrow-mindedness through populist manipulation (functionning at a whole other cognitive level than rationality, even when it borrows its terms), against which little can be done (political entrenchment works like religious faith, not like academic discussion). What is at stake is merely a socioculture's "common sense", reproduced in the echo chamber of public discourses, political campaigns, etc. And this is why these killings are something different from "oh, shit happens" murders. They say something about our society, about its moment in history, about its "categorial monsters". It says that trans people are not redhead, big nosed, or blue eyed people. They are designated as "eww" and "wrong" by enough public discourses (even in these forums) to be a matter of "what to do with them" ("tolerate, merely stigmatize or eradicate ? Oh no, eradicate is wrong, let's just stigmatize, it's just words after all").

We are co-responsible for our culture, at more or less infinitesimal levels. When we nod, or passively validate, or encourage, backwards reactionary ignorant discourses, we define their place in our culture, their acceptability, the unquestionability of their premises. We co-shape the ever moving frontiers of the "thinkable". We legitimize the worst in mankind. There is then the transversal question of how worldviews get implemented (murder is illegal, so is discrimination but its definition is a perpetual battlefield), but when you're at that point, when that worldview already includes the categories-to-discriminate-but-not-too-visibly-yet, you have already lost. The killings (and other deshumanization processes, from nuclear guinea-pigging, to punishing international policies, to inhumane detention camps, etc) happen only based on the world partitions that people have learnt to make sense. And they only make sense based on their level of consensus. And this level of consensus is determined by official and collective reactions.

These killings are partly due to the fact that we do not twitch enough when trans people are stigmatized (as freaks, etc) in public discourses around us. We maintain, passively (sometimes out of optimism), the beliefs that ground these actions. But the main issue with racisms are not the symptomatic actions, subtle or dramatic, overt or denied, that play hide-and-seek behind genuine superficial political correctess. The main issue with racism is the motive, waiting for petty or dramatic opportunities. And it is not a random individual issue. It's the worldview that our discourses and actions gratify or discourage. Or, in the worst political cases, capitalize on. It's the environment that we "are".

It could be, given that this is the year that Caitlyn Jenner came out. Also, late last year was the suicide of Leelah Alcorn, which got a lot of press, much of which was supportive (but also led to more suicides).

And you suggest fighting fire with fire right? Beating the haters at their own game? Or is this just your despair getting through?

You are bordering on personal insults - again - based on strawmen. To me it's obvious you take even relative defences of free speech, tolerance, non-interference as character defects...

You're othering me basically. Quite hypocritical of you... again.

"Decent forums"?

1.) If the GOG forums aren't decent in your eyes, then why stay here? It's not rational to stay in a place you don't like

2.) On a so called "decent forum", you'd have been banned ages ago for throwing personal insults of the crudest kind around (e.g. "shitbag", "shit", "f*ck yourself" and many more - in an entirely non jovial or sarcastic context) In other words, you're exploiting the existing freedom you resent others for having to the maximum yourself.

It does sound like you want a Gestapo/NKVD/Stasi culture that strictly polices any divergent thought, divergent from your subjective ideology that is.

The Swiss "anti-racism" law that you're referring to hasn't done any good whatsoever in reducing racism, on the contrary it has been abused in implication or application as a leverage tool by the far left against anyone dissenting from their ideology (including leftists who aren't far left enough). To bully people into not addressing and not even discussing topics like asylum abuse, illegal immigration, insufficient integration of specific groups, statistically proven and disproportionately high crime rates of foreigners of certain nationalities and so on. Interestingly, the law is never applied when Swiss citizens or white people are the victims of an insult.

In one sentence: Silencing the political opposition Gestapo/NKVD/Stasi style, under the pretense of being concerned about minorities.

The law is entirely superfluous because we already have laws that forbid offences against personal honor - legally speaking one could incidentally already sue you for three articles on multiple occasions here on the forums:

-Art. 173
-Art. 174
-Art. 177


In essence, you're not breaking any forum policies but breaking the laws of the country you're posting those comments from. Perhaps it would be strategically wise to not only leave the "undecent" GOG forums, but the horrible country of Switzerland and go somewhere where you are allowed to use libel & slander, if there is such a place.


(My apologies for unlurking despite saying earlier I won't. It's indeed a tough challenge, so failure can be expected. Yoda I am obviously not (yet!) Attempt at an excuse: Free legal and self-development advice. Don't look at me, other people charge money for that! $200 minimum soon as you enter the practice, highway robbery)

The superficial one-sided hypocrite is you, as usual. I am merely pointing out everything that you deliberately put aside for ages : the role of culture and evironment, the collective responsability (a concept that neoliberals cannot grasp, just happy to simplify the world in autonomous monades, which is not how it functions at all), the very reason why there are rules against "freedom of speech" (laws against "hate speech", amongst others) and the functions that these rules fulfill (be it in civil society or on internet forums), the actual functions and effects of unchecked propaganda (from "le juif et la france" and "radio mille collines", to gulf wars and more invisible, mundane consequences in modern democracies in terms of exclusions, securitarism, and human rights destruction), the asymetry of legitimacy between education (progressive) and obscurantism (reactionary), and the asymetry of reception between education (complexifying the world against internalized ethnocentric common sense) and demagogy (riding pre-existing popular beliefs).

That is quite a package that you require to ignore, in order to maintain your socially convenient pretend neutrality (without any chance of understanding Godard's "objectivity is five minutes for Hitler and five minutes for the jews"). And your typically conservative focus on form and varnish (the level at which you set your "fire" metaphor) hides precisely the fact that we cannot deal with populist propaganda at a horizontal level (what the "fire with fire" metaphor would imply, if applied to content), treating it as if it was genuine reasoning, as if there was an equivalence of required cognitive processes between research and anti-intellectual demagogy.

There are societal issues to dig through, common beliefs to deconstruct, human realities to investigate, and to articulate together - and these things are actually being studied and discussed amongst people who care, be them implicated actors, academics or politicians. However, these cannot be discussed with retarded ultraconservative ignorant cunts, whose only role is to hammer and rationalize their most self-serving traditionalist worldviews. Having to respond to their dishonest rhetorics and absolute lack of interest for actual matters at hand is a whole other, futile, endeavour. This is why they are cast aside from serious discussions. When your dipshit friend doesn't even get what is questionnable in "tintin au congo", or when he unmasks his pretend rational xenophobia ("oh we would accept more refugees if we could") with spectacularly ignorant statements about asylum process (rejections=frauds), he shows that he is not even trying to get what is going on, but merely to dress his assholery in the least morally costly way - and that is the systematic modus operandi of his Party (with which only the swiss forumers are familiar), and its history of technically manipulative campaigns (from its fight against women's vote to its islamophobic hysteria). Pretending to not notice it, pretending to be arguing with a honest person, would be simply wasting time on a stupid diversion. It would also be a sisyphe work, as the issues would be more on the rhetorics themselves and the perpetually brought-back fake obviousness (scientifically deconstructed but impossible to bypass due to the depth of ethnocentric internalization especially where the very values of conservatism glorify traditionalist thinking and anti-intellectualism). And let's not even go to the arguments of slogans versus slogans.

So basically, you're back to your familiar argument : "Racism and antiracism should be shown the same respect or disrespect because they're like, just, opinions, dude, stop being racist against racists lol". The answer is still no. Neither relationally (backwards reactionary mentalities and all their self-serving rationalizations can go fuck themselves) nor administratively. Because society (and cognition itself) doesn't work the simple way you conveniently believe. You can go hug the wounded Blocher fanboy, and promise to listen to him as if he had a brain, but there are reasons why "go fuck yourself" is all his circular solipsist rhetoric will get from people who have the merest clue about the matters he brings up.

And this, especially in a thread about the most tragic consequences of self-indulgent ultraconservative discourses and cultural backwardness. Retain what you want, what you can, or what is most convenient, from my posts, but the gist of it is : large or petty, violent or symbolic discriminations, are the implementations of our cultural sense of normality - in what it excludes or includes. And we are all co-responsible for its definition. We are our culture's norms and values, we are what offers gratification or unease to discriminatory people or to (ideologically transversal) minorities. We validate the ones at the expense of the others. And I prefer the social stigma to stick on a transphobic/xenophobic person than on a trans/foreigner whose mentality I do not know.

If, on this forum, a specifically coloured person (including "white") hates racists, and a racist hates people of that specific colour, I will not treat both the same way, or be friends with both. The same goes at a broader social level. You'll judge them based on facade behaviour, I'll judge them on their mentalities. We sure don't define honesty and hypocrisy the same way.