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General discussionThe Zoe Quinn Scandal highlights how gaming journalism is corrupt and has turned to ****(2564 posts) (2564 posts) 
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 25, 2014
Used the search function but didn't find any threads created related to this situation.

Both these videos do a great job summing up the situation for anyone who is still new to this story/controversy. With all the censorship and suppression of information related to this subject going on with several notable websites like Reddit, Neogaf, and 4chan it wouldn't surprise me if the people here on GOG haven't heard of it yet.

The Quinnspiracy Theory Episode 1

The Quinnspiracy Theory Episode 2

Essentially, the news that's been going around for the past week or so is Zoe Quinn, the developer of the text based flash game Depression Quest, cheated on her boyfriend with 5 different guys. However, 3 of the 5 guys she slept with had positions in the gaming industry either as a developer or as a journalist. One of them, Nathan Grayson, currently works with Kotaku and formerly worked at Rock Paper Shotgun. The revelation of Zoe Quinn's infidelity was revealed in a blog post by her ex-boyfriend which you can find here, where her ex provided screencaps of chatlogs/IMs and admissions from her that she cheated on him, along with writing various other frustrations related to why the relationship failed.

Long story short, along with using her influence with these sexual relationships to get positive coverage and mentions for her game Depression Quest, she's subsequently used this influence to try and censor everyone from talking about this scandal on various websites, one notable example being a DMCA takedown notice of a Youtube video talking about the situation, all after word got around from people seeing the blog post by her ex. This has resulted in the scandal becoming a major example of the Streisand Effect, and now word of the scandal has spread practically all over the internet as a result of the attempted censorship. Along with this, she's lied and emanated a victim complex in the past by claiming she was harassed and bullied by a fairly obscure imageboard after her game Depression Quest first got on Steam Greenlight, and as a result of her claiming she was harassed and bullied she and her game received coverage from several gaming outlets rushing to her rescue.

Even further than that, Zoe ruined a game jam designed to give women a chance to make their own game. Look here to find out more along with the fact it was a not for profit idea looking to be more about women being able to make games than trying to cry about how oppressed women are in the industry.

A crapton of things have been going on in regards to Reddit and censorship as well, recently a string of information came out proving that Reddit mods/admins were purposely censoring Reddit threads and posts from talking about the scandal, and it resulted in one of the mods there being dethroned after some info leaked proving what was going on in regards to moderation there.

Whew, man what a situation this is. Seriously though, what a bucketload of crap this gaming industry has become. Gaming journalism or otherwise, this situation basically confirms what likely a lot of us here had thought all along. That the hobby we love is being turned to shit by the gaming media and corruption, the ethics of the industry have become morally bankrupt, and the agendas of politically correct social justice warriors have warped the views of how we talk about and make games. Yeah, developers or aspiring developers have to worry about this crap more than ever if they want to make a game because now they have to appease people or they end up getting aced out.

*sigh* This situation has really made my head spin this past week. Well what do you guys think? Interested in what the users of GOG think of this. Those videos sum up things and go into details probably better than what I've done in this post, but after using the search function I was surprised no one else had made a topic about this yet so I wanted to post this. I love games, I love gaming, it's something I've loved ever since I was a kid. But to see what things have turned to in this modern generation of gaming and gaming reviews/reporting, it makes me sad what's happened to something I love as I ended up getting older. It's become less about making games and having fun playing games, to being more about pushing agendas to appease people and their self interests by pandering to people with the content inserted in games *cough*Bioware*cough*.

Btw I hope I didn't rub anyone the wrong way with this topic, but things like this really tick me off. Just a lot of crummy things happening all around with this that irk me.

One last thing I forgot to mention that I thought I should. In case anyone is wondering "Why do people care so much about this? There are plenty of worse things out there to worry about. This is just internet drama related to videogames....etc. etc. etc."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_relative_privation
Post edited August 26, 2014 by thelovebat
Posted August 25, 2014
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/some_pressfeminism_drama

though some users may not have clicked on it because of wanting to stay way from feminsin or what not.

I like how you have everything posted together and well thought out

(edit bc posting on my phone last night screwed up my words lol)
Post edited August 26, 2014 by Sage103082
Posted August 25, 2014
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Sage103082: http://www.gog.com/forum/general/some_pressfeminism_drama

though some users may not have clicked on it because of wanting to stay way from feminsin or what not.

I like how you shave everything played together and well thought out
Well based on the topic title I guess it's no wonder I didn't find it with how bad the search function is.

But yeah looking through that topic it seems a lot of people are misinterpreting why people consider this such a big deal. The topic title I agree probably made people think what it was really about was about a girl sleeping around and cheating, when it's really about the ethical breakdown of gaming journalism and how terrible things have become on that front, along with all the censorship and suppression that have come after the story broke out.

Glad that someone finally echoed my thoughts in that topic with this post

http://www.gog.com/forum/general/some_pressfeminism_drama/post116

I'm surprised though it took the GOG community around 6 pages in that topic to finally point this out. I've always thought of GOG being a smart and mature community compared to most other sites out there but for some reason the discussion before that (and upon further reading, even after the post) evolved to other unrelated arguments.
Post edited August 26, 2014 by thelovebat
Posted August 25, 2014
I sympathize. On the one hand, I feel political correctness/special interest groups have ruined/are ruining a whole lot more than just the gaming industry. On the other hand... big money causes corruption. Nothing new there. Crazy person warps or attempts to warp reality to their own benefit. Nothing new there either.
Posted August 25, 2014
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Sage103082: http://www.gog.com/forum/general/some_pressfeminism_drama

though some users may not have clicked on it because of wanting to stay way from feminsin or what not.

I like how you shave everything posted together and well thought out
I saw how recent this thread was and said to myself, "I know this isn't the first time this was mentioned."
Posted August 26, 2014
This needs to be talked about.

Seriously - It needs to be talked about.
Posted August 26, 2014
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Sage103082: http://www.gog.com/forum/general/some_pressfeminism_drama

though some users may not have clicked on it because of wanting to stay way from feminsin or what not.

I like how you shave everything played together and well thought out
avatar
thelovebat: Well based on the topic title I guess it's no wonder I didn't find it with how bad the search function is.

But yeah looking through that topic it seems a lot of people are misinterpreting why people consider this such a big deal. The topic title I agree probably made people think what it was really about was about a girl sleeping around and cheating, when it's really about the ethical breakdown of gaming journalism and how terrible things have become on that front, along with all the censorship and suppression that have come after the story broke out.

Glad that someone finally echoed my thoughts in that topic with this post

http://www.gog.com/forum/general/some_pressfeminism_drama/post116

I'm surprised though it took the GOG community around 6 pages in that topic to finally point this out. I've always thought of GOG being a smart and mature community compared to most other sites out there but for some reason the discussion before that evolved to other unrelated arguments.
That's how it came out. That thread is practically from Day 1, so it was being updated with new stuff constantly. I don't think anyone ever really actually cared about Zoe at all, to be frank, aside from thinking she's a horrible person, or whatnot. The REAL story is just how incestuous the nepotism in so-called games "journalism" has become. At some point, indie devs and their clickbaiting buddies decided to declare war on core gamers. What you see here is simply the backlash.

A light needs shined on all those writers who are paying devs via Patreon, then giving them extraordinarily positive coverage, kickbacks, publicity bought and paid for right underneath our noses, in my opinion. People aren't stupid and this was bound to be found out, and I'd hope that the resulting backlash will be biblical in proportions.

Another thing people need to realize is that many gaming sites are run by tabloid clickbaiting social gossip sites masquerading as SRS BUSINESS, like gawker, so there's already pressure on those underneath to do the same. As I said in the other thread: "When the National Enquirer has a higher Reuters score than any game publication or news site, there's obviously a problem."
Posted August 26, 2014
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thelovebat: snip
I got some posts on the other thread, I'm linking two here to provide context for this post as I'm taking a somewhat contrarian view to some of what I wrote there.
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/some_pressfeminism_drama/post275
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/some_pressfeminism_drama/post297

Two comments on your OP, if you would like to reply further.
Basically I do see some element of making a mountain out of a mole hill in this whole thing. I believe this will remain a useful anecdote and example, despite the personal tragedies involved (anyone thinking this will mostly blow over is right - but the net doesn't just forget such stuff). I don't believe it is a omen of change for the better or the worse (whatever way you define those).


If you subscribe to the view this is a sign of the huge corruption of games, as implied by:
"the hobby we love is being turned to shit"
"agendas ... have warped the views of how we ... make games"

Then I have to say this seems like hyperbole. Social pressure cannot make you change your actions. Only physical coercive actions can actually enforce criminalisation of thought / speech. So keep your eye on the ball, by which I mean in the tools of coercive power (political/legislative). Don't be distracted by media propaganda of social activism which overstate their impact.

The largest effect on gaming factually has nothing to do with the social agendas trending - how many people actually play those games / notgames? Has there been any actual absolute (not relative) reduction in traditional genres?
I believe any change in gaming is mostly due to mobile and casual waves. Not social justice.

Put bluntly, social activist developers can fuck all the media in the world, that same media can tilt the field of public opinion in one single direction and yha's still not going to be the end of gaming.


Which brings me to the second point. Political contributions and the state of politics today. You know what I think about when I think of generic media bias? US media.
Have you checked how many political agents are related to journalists? How often jurnalists contribute to politicians? If yes have you noticed the huge dominance one of the parties has over the other? Do you think that has no influence on how news are presented to the public? And yet, the world has not ended (much as a lot of republicans have the exact same hyperbolic reactions I also see in our particular situation).

I'm not saying any of this is morally right, just check the links I posted if you don't believe me. However it does indicate that nothing will change just because some light has shone in.
I mentioned the House of Cards vibes this gives - a reporter named Zoe, sleeps with a congressman for inside info, and I won't spoiler further what happens - check wikipedia if you want.


Put simply, games may be a large industry, but they are nowehere near the level of cultural primacy where any of this is hugely important.
Even within games context exclusively, this is irrelevant to the majority of how the gaming landcape is changing. Folks will buy what they buy, learn their tastes, be able to decide further purchases from peer reviews or demos.

I understand why you care, but if you care so much, I'd strongly suggest you do some self-examination why this feels so important. It's the fallacy of relative privation afterall - and what I'm saying is, let's look at the absolute privation, because statistics can be so misleading on its own.
Posted August 26, 2014
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thelovebat:
Btw I hope I didn't rub anyone the wrong way with this topic, but things like this really tick me off. Just a lot of crummy things happening all around with this that irk me.
In life, every time you say anything worth saying, you are going to rub someone the wrong way.
Posted August 26, 2014
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Brasas: ...
*hugs*
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Brasas: House of Cards vibes
Well, that's the third time I see House of Cards mentioned in a completely different place. Guess I need to read that shit.

At any rate,
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Brasas: Folks will buy what they buy, learn their tastes, be able to decide further purchases from peer reviews or demos.
Exactly! Gaming media are not exactly mainstream yet, and vast majority of gamers go by recommendation, not by a review. So if you don't like how they (the media) work, ignore them. I've been doing that for years now (admittedly, aside from RPS which I still visit every now and again), find a bunch of like-minded people and share information. Way more reliable and you don't help the broken system.
Post edited August 26, 2014 by Fenixp
Posted August 26, 2014
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thelovebat: snip
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Brasas: If you subscribe to the view this is a sign of the huge corruption of games, as implied by:
"the hobby we love is being turned to shit"
"agendas ... have warped the views of how we ... make games"

Then I have to say this seems like hyperbole. Social pressure cannot make you change your actions.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13688172660A82580100&page=0
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/213-nonstop-gaming-general/66218830
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/213-nonstop-gaming-general/66243825
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=558898

Also, a developer many RPG fans (including myself) praise in Obsidian had to deal with the 'breast armor' debate on their forums regarding their Kickstarter funded game, Pillars of Eternity.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60868-the-boob-armor-and-the-whole-issue-of-objectification/
Post edited August 26, 2014 by thelovebat
Posted August 26, 2014
low rated
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Brasas: ...
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Fenixp: *hugs*
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Brasas: House of Cards vibes
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Fenixp: Well, that's the third time I see House of Cards mentioned in a completely different place. Guess I need to read that shit.

At any rate,
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Brasas: Folks will buy what they buy, learn their tastes, be able to decide further purchases from peer reviews or demos.
avatar
Fenixp: Exactly! Gaming media are not exactly mainstream yet, and vast majority of gamers go by recommendation, not by a review. So if you don't like how they (the media) work, ignore them. I've been doing that for years now (admittedly, aside from RPS which I still visit every now and again), find a bunch of like-minded people and share information. Way more reliable and you don't help the broken system.
This is a troll free zone. Leave.
Posted August 26, 2014
It wasn't the sex or even the fact she cheated on someone that concerns me. It was the kind of influence on the industry one person had who had gotten that level of power using skills outside of gaming to gain influence and favor in the industry. I'm not just being a hater about it. This has a few negative effects on the industry in many ways

1) There work cannot be honestly reviewed by people they are in a relationship with due to inherit bias. This leads to things like a bad game getting good reviews, to bad game designs being forwarded to the head of development or publishing arms of a company (basically how a bad game is created).

2) When they cry wolf they can summon their bed buddies and their cadres to bring someone down they don't agree with without them giving it a second thought (or they just don't give a damn) under made up pretenses. You won't have a chance to defend yourself. You'll be judged and executed by the heads of the industry and they won't have to go to a forum to rile up sjw's to troll you. They could go about it smooth like by say rejecting you for a job you would otherwise be qualified for or make an excuse up why your game just isn't for them to publish.

3) The most insidious effect of all. Influencing a game that would otherwise be awesome toward garbage design. Imagine this: Suppose there is a cool game that's having new features put in on a monthly basis. Suppose at some point some unexplained material and features and stages that don't start jiving with the game start to appear. No one is quite sure how this made it into the game. You get the idea.

Also it would be keen to remember when something like this happens there are two guilty parties. The one that offered "services" and the other that accepted. Those that accept services are at least just as guilty (probably more so in reality) since they are the ones that make the actual decisions in the industry. I think it's important to no longer put much stalk in any big online media outlet for video games. Also let's not blindly accept someones accusations without first looking into the facts of the matter. It's clear that some spin was used on Wizchan and the contest to paint them as something they were not. People just blindly accepted what was said. If one has the online ability to visit sites, this should not be a pit of ignorance one falls into.
Posted August 26, 2014
Shitfuck. This is a run of the mill example of cronyism in tech that only boiled over because this particular perp has a vagina. Look up "culture fit" and go throw up on a corporate bus.
Posted August 26, 2014
I don't even know what to say. I've had some suspicions about cliques in indie development that just seemed a bit too convenient for quite some time now but this...gah, I don't even know what to say about this.

Respect lost. For a lot of people. Well, whatever respect was left. I'd already been on the verge of not reading both Kotaku and RPS due to some of the stuff they've been saying recently.

Man, I wish I had more to say about it. Mostly, I'm just disappointed that this is what it's come to.

But fuck. How stupid are people? They financially support someone who's got all these allegations against her and then back HER up? What? How does that make sense? They're giving HER money. Shouldn't SHE back THEM up?
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionThe Zoe Quinn Scandal highlights how gaming journalism is corrupt and has turned to ****(2564 posts) (2564 posts) 
(2564 posts)