Do you NEED those items to play the game? Do they add anything of value to said game? No to both. It's optional.

Do I think the offline installers should get these items? Sure. Do I think they NEED them? No.

None of which are or have even been any criteria of "DRM" except in your head... Whether something has "value" is entirely subjective for each person. Whether it's locked away online or not is a simple objective yes or no answer. Your ongoing crusade to try and get people to believe the two completely separate arguments are 'the same thing' is exactly what "gaslighting" actually is.

No DLC is needed to play a game. So does that mean that DLCs in general are not DRM controlled on Steam?


In order to access the new content in the Witcher, you need a valid login. So this content just as is DRM controlled as any other content in any other game that does require a login meaning that the Witcher is no longer DRM free as it used to be.

Who's to say they don't add anything of value, you seemed excited enough about getting these completely worthless items. If they add nothing, why claim them? Why did they even make and offer them in the first place? To get the items, the client is not optional. What about censored games? You don't *need* an uncensored patch to play the game and to some people it would add no value. If it was locked behind online activation would it be DRM?

Not that you're wrong, but none of that matters anyway. "Value" or "need" are not relevant to the issue. The issue is it's content locked behind DRM. What that content is, how valuable, useful, optional etc. it is doesn't change that, because the DRM on it is what it is regardless of what is locked away. What he's arguing is like saying that a safe is not a safe because he only keeps a pair of socks in it instead of jewelry. It's just deflecting, trying to derail the discussion, because the basic fact he's trying to deny there are just no actual arguments to contradict.

That's generally what I was trying to say by pointing out that trying to base "DRM or not" on value doesn't make sense because everyone values things differently :)

But it's not even that. Even if everyone, every single person, agreed that it's something completely without value, it would still be DRMed. The subjective nature of "value" doesn't enter into it, because value is entirely irrelevant to the issue at hand. Even an empty safe is still a safe.

I don't disagree dude. It's not me you need to be telling.

There's definitely a giant troll here. Unfortunately, troll regeneration only works on flesh wounds and regrowing limbs and physical damage. Vital internal organs do not regenerate. Indeed, at this point, the most humane thing to do is to starve the troll, since starvation also is not counteracted by regeneration. May its misery end soon.

https://aonprd.com/UMR.aspx?ItemName=Regeneration

This is what it is going to come down to.

DRM is not defined by the content that is gated, it is defined by the fact that content is gated in the first place.

I have still not had a response to my refund request for the witcher 3 based on the introduction of DRM to a product that was initially sold as DRM free and now sold as as a product containing DRM on a store that still claims to be 100% DRM free.

Having looked at Cavalarys post discussing gog support tickets, gog are still trying to maintain that they are a DRM free platform selling DRM.

There is no way gog are going to be able to dodge the DRM issue for much longer.

Either gog openly acknowledge that introducing a CDPR update to the witcher3 fully embraces DRM that they are happy to sell, or they openly acknowledge that gog.com no longer lay claim to being 100% DRM free.

This is going to be an interesting ride.

Are you ready to take a bet on this?
They have been very good at ignoring DRM-related issues…

This is where things get a bit sticky though. The Witcher 3 is in itself not DRM'd; it is the additional content that is DRM'd. It's a subtle distinction, but ultimately, the product that you originally purchased is still as DRM free as it was originally - what GoG have done here is to release new content (that sits behind a DRM gateway).

You've also still got access to the original game that doesn't have DRM in it at all (by virtue of not having the content in it); the legacy installers can be downloaded through your account.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not overly happy about having any DRM gated content on GoG or in the Witcher 3 RTX, but I don't feel that you should get a refund. GoG have not pulled a bait and switch; all the content you originally purchased is still available without DRM.

By the logic presented here it would be totally fine if someone released a game here, and then some time later released an updated version with bonus content locked behind Denuvo or so because "the original content purchased is still DRM-free". Or even if they simply abandoned the GOG version and gave GOG users keys for Steam/EGS/whatever to access the additional content behind whatever DRM mechanisms they decided to implement there...

GOG is supposed to be DRM-free for all single player content at least. They advertised (and continue to advertise) DRM-free as one of their main selling points; not so long ago it was trumpeted as their #1 "core principle". They built up their position in the market and their reputation on being 100% DRM-free. DRM has no place on GOG!

This is also extremely disrespectful towards all of GOG's customers, many of whom shop here and bought these games precisely because of the DRM-free principles they espoused so loudly...

Plus everyone who buys the game going forward certainly isn't buying a 100% DRM-free game any more.

You're missing my point somewhat. Would it be fine if they released an enhanced version of a game that required Denuvo while still leaving the original available for download? I wouldn't be happy with the Denuvo version.

Would I deserve a refund? No, because the content I purchased would still be available in the form I purchased it in.

I'm separating the DRM issue from the refund issue because nobody who purchased the game prior to the release of the RTX edition deserves to receive a refund for CDPR's inclusion of additional DRM gated material that wasn't included in the original complete release. How you feel about the inclusion of additional DRM gated material in a remaster is a different matter.