Posted April 26, 2016
sunshinecorp
Ordained Dudeist
Registered: Jul 2011
From Greece
omega64
Something good
Registered: Apr 2012
From Netherlands
yogsloth
GRAAAAAAH!!!!!
Registered: Dec 2013
From United States
Posted April 26, 2016
Hang on. Let me go take a collection.
[DRIVES THE HELL OUTTA HERE]
[DRIVES THE HELL OUTTA HERE]
sunshinecorp
Ordained Dudeist
Registered: Jul 2011
From Greece
Posted April 26, 2016
I guess we'll just add that to the bagel bill from last time...
omega64
Something good
Registered: Apr 2012
From Netherlands
Posted April 28, 2016
*hears Cicadas in the distance*
sunshinecorp
Ordained Dudeist
Registered: Jul 2011
From Greece
omega64
Something good
Registered: Apr 2012
From Netherlands
zeogold
The Puzzlemaster
Registered: Dec 2012
From United States
Bookwyrm627
ADD Jumping Bean
Registered: Nov 2013
From United States
Posted April 28, 2016
Have a bump
zeogold
The Puzzlemaster
Registered: Dec 2012
From United States
Posted April 28, 2016
*****RESULTS, PART 2*****
Habanerose: "Well, quite the mess our Puzzlemaster got himself into ;)
But some things seem rather odd:
- His fractured leg: as later explained in the Puzzlemaster's thoughts, it seems rather odd
that the leg wasn't outright broken, seen Mrs. Goldilocks physical stature, as she would pass of easily as a burly man rather than a "woman" (more on this later), generally agrressive nature and tendency to use of excessive and gratitous violence.
- The burnmarks on his body: while very possible to be left by long ongoing (childhood?) abuse by his crazy cousin Zeogoldilocks, there also seems to be another rather "sadistically inclined" individual with a tendency for pyromaniac activity.
- The phone records: while indicating "someone" was calling from the Zeo Family Office, it can't exactly be determed who it was, thus not exactly disculpating Mrs. Goldilocks.
Also the rather close proximity of Mt.Oaks Hospital to the office makes it still possible for her to reach and commit said crime (with the possibility of using an employee as a strawman to cover up her absence)
- The bagels in the alley: now guess who has an unhealthy obsession with bagels... both Zeo's crazy sister (as seen on the bagel crumbs on her notebook, though she'd probably eat anything :P) and a certain pyromaniac prosecutor.
- The Nurse: she mentions having discovered the body at 2AM , and seen a mysterious "woman" in the corridors of the hospital about half an hour earlier, searching for a specific room, yet clearly
interested in doing so anonymously.
My Conclusion:
Most of the proof is sadly not enough to raise sufficient support to put the Puzzlemaster on trial, as the only proof possibly pointing towards him was the note on the register, noting Mr. lindo as "sleeping peacefully", when he technically was already dead. Which while suspicious, could still be attributed to the fact that he hadn't really thoroughfully checked on him and most likely only had a short look to see how he was doing (as noted on the register he seemed to only have entered for less than a minute).
Now there seem on the other hand quite a few things pointing towards Ms. Katt, mainly the burnmarks on the victim's body and the bagels found in the alley, and while both of these could be attributed to Zeogoldilocks as well, the nurse mentioned a suspicious "woman" half an hour before discovering the body, sneaking around the "dimlit" corridors of the hospital. And honestly, it seems rather difficult to identify Mrs. Goldilocks as a woman in such conditions, based on her stature and general demeanor. Also, the fact that his leg was merely fractured / bruised rather than shattered to pieces would indicate someone of lesser physical strenght.
Interesting Sidenote and personal conspiracy theory: Mr. Zeogold could have possibly even had a reason to commit said crime, a.k.a the inheritence of the Family Business, as given by his self-proclaimed status as Puzzlemaster, he might have certainly
had reasons to be displeased by the decision to not entrust him with the family business. There is also the ironic fact that he knew about both his sisters and Ms. Katt's tendencies towards violence and physical abuse (and their psychotic behaviors from earlier meetings / trials).
And oddly enough, given enough effort, he could make himself rather easily pass off as a woman, at least more likely than his sister...
Also the rather bad choice of security guard seems rather unexpected on someone who prides himself as such a smart individual. Unless obviously he had all of it planned out right beforehand... the murder of his cousin, the incrimination of his sister,
and ultimately, inheriting the family business as he intended to in the first place. And who else better suited to mislead a whole jury than a Master of Mystery, Deception and Puzzles. And while he could easily have crossed the line, as there is no bigger
motivation than personal gain / greed... sadly (possibly due to his experience), there is not enough proof to raise reasonable doubt among a jury to put him on trial, lest even considering pulling him before a judge, thus he might very well have commited the perfect crime."
Analysis: I'm not really sure what you were getting at with this other than "not enough evidence". You seem to somewhat understand the evidence and how it fits together, you just lack that final push to nail down the real killer.
Yezemin: "Lindo was shot in the chest somewhere between 9 and midnight, probably with a muffler. We really have no idea what happened in that timeframe because none of the witnesses saw fit to cover it in their reports. We can only assume whatever happened, happened quietly. Then he was propped up in his bed to look asleep. This was probably to purposely frame you. As cecil reported Lindo was not yet in the alley at 12:12. Then you checked on him at 12:30 and probably did not check his vitals. You just assumed he was sound asleep and decided not to disturb him. We know from the witness reports that nothing untoward happened during that visit. Then later the nurse sees a suspicious woman in the corridor and a little while after that Lindo's body is found in the alley. I think it's safe to assume that that woman was the murderer who dumped the body in the alley through the window at that time. A short while later the body is found. Now the question remains who that woman was. While zeogoldilocks could have been there for the dumping of the body, I think her alibi for the time of the murder checks out. The presence of bagels and burn marks on the scene however indicate snow katt who maybe hasn't severed her ties to organized crime as thoroughly as we thought. Maybe she conspired with zeogoldilocks in this who benefited from having her competition in the family business removed."
Analysis: I find it interesting how many people assume that the defendant, who is a potential murderer, is always telling the truth. You were correct about the woman being the killer, but the trick was that the hospital was not the crime scene and I lied about the tibia as well as the status of the patient. You have a pretty solid theory, however, so well done.
REDVWIN: "Not Guilty/Do Not Hold To Trial. Difficult to know but most evidence don't point at you, PM. I suspect more on Cecil than anyone else but still can't work a way in which to solve the puzzle without the security guard not noticing his presence... Cecil's fish throwing ability might hint about how he got Lindo's attention and also his cigar might be related with those "burns" on the deceased body... Probably, Cecil threw something from his window to make Lindo open it... later, Cecil climbed up to Lindo's via the fire escape and then, because of the vodka inside his veins, he acted erratically and threw Lindo to the floor, near the garbage bags... even with an hurt arm, he still has enough force to do that. As for the gunshot, I suppose it was there and not on Lindo's room where it happened. The gunner must have been somebody else as it is most sure that Cecil wouldn't be able to hide a gun inside his room. Who this person might be... a random individual just passing by? A bagels fan?"
Analysis: The bagels were just a ruse. Ignoring them is probably the best way to go. Interesting idea, however, implicating the fish seller. His hurt arm kind of stops him from doing anything, though.
ShadowPatriarch: I don't think the defendant is guilty. Firstly, he had not motive. Secondly, even if you take into consideration his odd behaviour in visiting the patient at 12:30, he probably panicked on seeing the patient dead, and wrote the wonderfully cryptic "resting peacefully" (Rest in peace?) message on the patients chart. Im guessing Zeo probably thought his sister was somehow involved in this and wanted to cover for her, and so in his haste he wrote the massage and left, because there was nothing more he could have done.
Also im guessing no one heard any gunshots because the assailant was probably using a silencer or some other sort of sound suppressor on their gun.
The evidence of burns on the victim and bagel remains found on the garbage bags would indicate that someone we know - a pyromaniac lawyer for instance -could have been involved in this incident. Probably moonlighting for Zeo's sister to make ends meet after the failure of her last job."
Analysis: You were fairly close. You were one of the few people to realize I lied about the "resting peacefully" bit. Like Habanerose, you just needed a little more of a push.
Habanerose: "Well, quite the mess our Puzzlemaster got himself into ;)
But some things seem rather odd:
- His fractured leg: as later explained in the Puzzlemaster's thoughts, it seems rather odd
that the leg wasn't outright broken, seen Mrs. Goldilocks physical stature, as she would pass of easily as a burly man rather than a "woman" (more on this later), generally agrressive nature and tendency to use of excessive and gratitous violence.
- The burnmarks on his body: while very possible to be left by long ongoing (childhood?) abuse by his crazy cousin Zeogoldilocks, there also seems to be another rather "sadistically inclined" individual with a tendency for pyromaniac activity.
- The phone records: while indicating "someone" was calling from the Zeo Family Office, it can't exactly be determed who it was, thus not exactly disculpating Mrs. Goldilocks.
Also the rather close proximity of Mt.Oaks Hospital to the office makes it still possible for her to reach and commit said crime (with the possibility of using an employee as a strawman to cover up her absence)
- The bagels in the alley: now guess who has an unhealthy obsession with bagels... both Zeo's crazy sister (as seen on the bagel crumbs on her notebook, though she'd probably eat anything :P) and a certain pyromaniac prosecutor.
- The Nurse: she mentions having discovered the body at 2AM , and seen a mysterious "woman" in the corridors of the hospital about half an hour earlier, searching for a specific room, yet clearly
interested in doing so anonymously.
My Conclusion:
Most of the proof is sadly not enough to raise sufficient support to put the Puzzlemaster on trial, as the only proof possibly pointing towards him was the note on the register, noting Mr. lindo as "sleeping peacefully", when he technically was already dead. Which while suspicious, could still be attributed to the fact that he hadn't really thoroughfully checked on him and most likely only had a short look to see how he was doing (as noted on the register he seemed to only have entered for less than a minute).
Now there seem on the other hand quite a few things pointing towards Ms. Katt, mainly the burnmarks on the victim's body and the bagels found in the alley, and while both of these could be attributed to Zeogoldilocks as well, the nurse mentioned a suspicious "woman" half an hour before discovering the body, sneaking around the "dimlit" corridors of the hospital. And honestly, it seems rather difficult to identify Mrs. Goldilocks as a woman in such conditions, based on her stature and general demeanor. Also, the fact that his leg was merely fractured / bruised rather than shattered to pieces would indicate someone of lesser physical strenght.
Interesting Sidenote and personal conspiracy theory: Mr. Zeogold could have possibly even had a reason to commit said crime, a.k.a the inheritence of the Family Business, as given by his self-proclaimed status as Puzzlemaster, he might have certainly
had reasons to be displeased by the decision to not entrust him with the family business. There is also the ironic fact that he knew about both his sisters and Ms. Katt's tendencies towards violence and physical abuse (and their psychotic behaviors from earlier meetings / trials).
And oddly enough, given enough effort, he could make himself rather easily pass off as a woman, at least more likely than his sister...
Also the rather bad choice of security guard seems rather unexpected on someone who prides himself as such a smart individual. Unless obviously he had all of it planned out right beforehand... the murder of his cousin, the incrimination of his sister,
and ultimately, inheriting the family business as he intended to in the first place. And who else better suited to mislead a whole jury than a Master of Mystery, Deception and Puzzles. And while he could easily have crossed the line, as there is no bigger
motivation than personal gain / greed... sadly (possibly due to his experience), there is not enough proof to raise reasonable doubt among a jury to put him on trial, lest even considering pulling him before a judge, thus he might very well have commited the perfect crime."
Analysis: I'm not really sure what you were getting at with this other than "not enough evidence". You seem to somewhat understand the evidence and how it fits together, you just lack that final push to nail down the real killer.
Yezemin: "Lindo was shot in the chest somewhere between 9 and midnight, probably with a muffler. We really have no idea what happened in that timeframe because none of the witnesses saw fit to cover it in their reports. We can only assume whatever happened, happened quietly. Then he was propped up in his bed to look asleep. This was probably to purposely frame you. As cecil reported Lindo was not yet in the alley at 12:12. Then you checked on him at 12:30 and probably did not check his vitals. You just assumed he was sound asleep and decided not to disturb him. We know from the witness reports that nothing untoward happened during that visit. Then later the nurse sees a suspicious woman in the corridor and a little while after that Lindo's body is found in the alley. I think it's safe to assume that that woman was the murderer who dumped the body in the alley through the window at that time. A short while later the body is found. Now the question remains who that woman was. While zeogoldilocks could have been there for the dumping of the body, I think her alibi for the time of the murder checks out. The presence of bagels and burn marks on the scene however indicate snow katt who maybe hasn't severed her ties to organized crime as thoroughly as we thought. Maybe she conspired with zeogoldilocks in this who benefited from having her competition in the family business removed."
Analysis: I find it interesting how many people assume that the defendant, who is a potential murderer, is always telling the truth. You were correct about the woman being the killer, but the trick was that the hospital was not the crime scene and I lied about the tibia as well as the status of the patient. You have a pretty solid theory, however, so well done.
REDVWIN: "Not Guilty/Do Not Hold To Trial. Difficult to know but most evidence don't point at you, PM. I suspect more on Cecil than anyone else but still can't work a way in which to solve the puzzle without the security guard not noticing his presence... Cecil's fish throwing ability might hint about how he got Lindo's attention and also his cigar might be related with those "burns" on the deceased body... Probably, Cecil threw something from his window to make Lindo open it... later, Cecil climbed up to Lindo's via the fire escape and then, because of the vodka inside his veins, he acted erratically and threw Lindo to the floor, near the garbage bags... even with an hurt arm, he still has enough force to do that. As for the gunshot, I suppose it was there and not on Lindo's room where it happened. The gunner must have been somebody else as it is most sure that Cecil wouldn't be able to hide a gun inside his room. Who this person might be... a random individual just passing by? A bagels fan?"
Analysis: The bagels were just a ruse. Ignoring them is probably the best way to go. Interesting idea, however, implicating the fish seller. His hurt arm kind of stops him from doing anything, though.
ShadowPatriarch: I don't think the defendant is guilty. Firstly, he had not motive. Secondly, even if you take into consideration his odd behaviour in visiting the patient at 12:30, he probably panicked on seeing the patient dead, and wrote the wonderfully cryptic "resting peacefully" (Rest in peace?) message on the patients chart. Im guessing Zeo probably thought his sister was somehow involved in this and wanted to cover for her, and so in his haste he wrote the massage and left, because there was nothing more he could have done.
Also im guessing no one heard any gunshots because the assailant was probably using a silencer or some other sort of sound suppressor on their gun.
The evidence of burns on the victim and bagel remains found on the garbage bags would indicate that someone we know - a pyromaniac lawyer for instance -could have been involved in this incident. Probably moonlighting for Zeo's sister to make ends meet after the failure of her last job."
Analysis: You were fairly close. You were one of the few people to realize I lied about the "resting peacefully" bit. Like Habanerose, you just needed a little more of a push.
Post edited April 28, 2016 by zeogold
zeogold
The Puzzlemaster
Registered: Dec 2012
From United States
Posted April 28, 2016
Got bigger than I expected.
*****RESULTS, PART 3*****
Ashwald - "At first glance this looks like a Not Guilty case. Specifically a There Wasn't A Killer In The First Place case. Lindo upped and died in his sleep between 9 and 12. The puzzlemaster checked the room at 12:30, saw him in bed and assumed he was sleeping. Since he had prescribed rest he didn't properly check the patient in order to let him... wait for it... rest in peace. Zeogoldilocks sneaked in to find her cousin at around 1:30 except he was dead already. ("Brother, dear? What are you doing??" and then "OBJECTION! I see no reason the defendant should be able to do this.", "this" being the defendant questioning the witness at that specific moment, means it really was zeogoldilocks doing the rounds and not a cross-dressing puzzlemaster.) She was... miffed and threw him out the window in his birthday suit. Clearly that would teach him to die before she could come by and kill him herself. Then she stole his stuff to go through at a late date in case some important company document/other desirable thingamajig could be found there. Apparently there was far too little blood to be found considering what kind of wounds there are on the body and the nurse thoroughly checked the patient's room, but didn't mention anything about seeing blood. If she had seen any she'd have raised a ruckus over it way before going to the window. So, what naturally follows is that ms. Katt (who doesn't get along with at least two members of the zeogold family and had been lurking around the hospital burninating the garbage area and terrorizing the puzzlemaster as evidenced by the bagel remains reported by witnesses -because practice makes perfect and if the hospital happened to get burninated to a crisp with the puzzlemaster inside it then all the better!-) popped up and shot at the corpse. Why? Because why not, he was dead already and a girl's gotta let some steam out SOMEHOW. Also, the falling corpse took out the fire she was trying to start that night. Anyway, blood starts to clot up after death so there wouldn't be as much of it if a corpse got shot. That's what that episode of CSI said anyway. Without any mention in the coroner's report of pharmaceuticals in the corpse I would normally assume that the coroner checked and found none, instead of simply not bothering to check because super-duper obvious gunshot wound.
Except. *puts on brand new tinfoil hat*
The coroner's report talks about the gunshot wound but completely overlooks the reduced blood loss and what would have caused it, even though that is evidence that could have potentially exonerated the puzzlemaster without any need for this trial we're all stuck in. TL;DR: the coroner did a shoddy half-assed job, which means I can't trust the lack of poisonous substances in the report. Personal experience tells me that fractures, even hairline ones, can hurt like a bitch. It would be very easy for the puzzlemaster to poison Lindo by pretending it's actually just painkillers to let him be comfortable during the night, check on him again at 12:30 to confirm his death then let the rest of the night unfold as previously stated. The motive for this would be to implicate either his sister zeogoldilocks or ms. Katt for the murder since both are thorns in his side. Add to this his numerous & ridiculous attempts to escape and the puzzlermaster starts to look incredibly guilty. Being afraid of the defence/prosecution doesn’t really cut it for me as an excuse. So I vote to hold him to trial."
Analysis: You basically covered the half of the case ZFR missed. You interpreted everything mostly correctly about Snowkatt's actions as well as the problem about the blood. The thing is, the bone was broken/bruised AFTER the crime, and the crime scene was not at the hospital.
omega64- "Right so he left the hospital, probably to kill Zeogoldilocks.
Got killed instead, and dumped into the garbage after she assured it was below the proper window.
Fractured his leg to make it seem like he fell while climbing down.
I think that covers it?"
Analysis: Right on the money. I can't find the rest of it, but you did mention something about a street lamp possibly causing the fire in the dumpster, which I actually like better as a theory than the "official" solution.
*****RESULTS, PART 3*****
Ashwald - "At first glance this looks like a Not Guilty case. Specifically a There Wasn't A Killer In The First Place case. Lindo upped and died in his sleep between 9 and 12. The puzzlemaster checked the room at 12:30, saw him in bed and assumed he was sleeping. Since he had prescribed rest he didn't properly check the patient in order to let him... wait for it... rest in peace. Zeogoldilocks sneaked in to find her cousin at around 1:30 except he was dead already. ("Brother, dear? What are you doing??" and then "OBJECTION! I see no reason the defendant should be able to do this.", "this" being the defendant questioning the witness at that specific moment, means it really was zeogoldilocks doing the rounds and not a cross-dressing puzzlemaster.) She was... miffed and threw him out the window in his birthday suit. Clearly that would teach him to die before she could come by and kill him herself. Then she stole his stuff to go through at a late date in case some important company document/other desirable thingamajig could be found there. Apparently there was far too little blood to be found considering what kind of wounds there are on the body and the nurse thoroughly checked the patient's room, but didn't mention anything about seeing blood. If she had seen any she'd have raised a ruckus over it way before going to the window. So, what naturally follows is that ms. Katt (who doesn't get along with at least two members of the zeogold family and had been lurking around the hospital burninating the garbage area and terrorizing the puzzlemaster as evidenced by the bagel remains reported by witnesses -because practice makes perfect and if the hospital happened to get burninated to a crisp with the puzzlemaster inside it then all the better!-) popped up and shot at the corpse. Why? Because why not, he was dead already and a girl's gotta let some steam out SOMEHOW. Also, the falling corpse took out the fire she was trying to start that night. Anyway, blood starts to clot up after death so there wouldn't be as much of it if a corpse got shot. That's what that episode of CSI said anyway. Without any mention in the coroner's report of pharmaceuticals in the corpse I would normally assume that the coroner checked and found none, instead of simply not bothering to check because super-duper obvious gunshot wound.
Except. *puts on brand new tinfoil hat*
The coroner's report talks about the gunshot wound but completely overlooks the reduced blood loss and what would have caused it, even though that is evidence that could have potentially exonerated the puzzlemaster without any need for this trial we're all stuck in. TL;DR: the coroner did a shoddy half-assed job, which means I can't trust the lack of poisonous substances in the report. Personal experience tells me that fractures, even hairline ones, can hurt like a bitch. It would be very easy for the puzzlemaster to poison Lindo by pretending it's actually just painkillers to let him be comfortable during the night, check on him again at 12:30 to confirm his death then let the rest of the night unfold as previously stated. The motive for this would be to implicate either his sister zeogoldilocks or ms. Katt for the murder since both are thorns in his side. Add to this his numerous & ridiculous attempts to escape and the puzzlermaster starts to look incredibly guilty. Being afraid of the defence/prosecution doesn’t really cut it for me as an excuse. So I vote to hold him to trial."
Analysis: You basically covered the half of the case ZFR missed. You interpreted everything mostly correctly about Snowkatt's actions as well as the problem about the blood. The thing is, the bone was broken/bruised AFTER the crime, and the crime scene was not at the hospital.
omega64- "Right so he left the hospital, probably to kill Zeogoldilocks.
Got killed instead, and dumped into the garbage after she assured it was below the proper window.
Fractured his leg to make it seem like he fell while climbing down.
I think that covers it?"
Analysis: Right on the money. I can't find the rest of it, but you did mention something about a street lamp possibly causing the fire in the dumpster, which I actually like better as a theory than the "official" solution.
Post edited April 28, 2016 by zeogold
omega64
Something good
Registered: Apr 2012
From Netherlands
omega64
Something good
Registered: Apr 2012
From Netherlands
Posted April 28, 2016
Reading everyone's theories was great.
ZFR
I love gold!
Registered: Jan 2010
From Ireland
Posted April 28, 2016
That would have cleared a lot.
Plus I had the preconceived idea that you'd be innocent because, come on, you wouldn't make a trial game and make yourself guilty.
I also liked my idea about the "imposter" whom you saw being Cecil who used the fire escape to go to the room above him to get a glass replacement, found the bed empty, and when he heard the door being opened, he quickly jumped into the deceased's bed, which accounted for why you'd see someone in bed and think the victim was alive at the time. Granted Cecil couldn't do it well with a broken arm.
zeogold
The Puzzlemaster
Registered: Dec 2012
From United States
Posted April 28, 2016
Time to announce winners!
omega64 is our grand winner. Although ZFR sort of deserves this spot since he was faster with the correct solution, Omega was the first to give both the correct verdict and the proper reasoning behind it. On top of that, he also covered all the evidence properly.
That being said of course, there IS a first place winner chosen by me, so naturally, that shall be ZFR. It's sorta both him and Omega who've won, really.
Second place is the "random" choice one, and the only two who made the correct verdict outside of Omega are Sunshinecorp and Ashwald. After utilizing random.org, sunshinecorp springs up as the official second-place victor.
Congratulations, you guys!
omega64 is our grand winner. Although ZFR sort of deserves this spot since he was faster with the correct solution, Omega was the first to give both the correct verdict and the proper reasoning behind it. On top of that, he also covered all the evidence properly.
That being said of course, there IS a first place winner chosen by me, so naturally, that shall be ZFR. It's sorta both him and Omega who've won, really.
Second place is the "random" choice one, and the only two who made the correct verdict outside of Omega are Sunshinecorp and Ashwald. After utilizing random.org, sunshinecorp springs up as the official second-place victor.
Congratulations, you guys!