Diablo 2 - I would add the deliciously grimdark world as another pro

Titan Quest - The map sizes would be a con for me, since I often worn myself out clearing them.

Path of Exile - As long as you have a good connection with the servers then it's a very good game. And even if you don't then it's just being kicked that you have to worry about. It doesn't translate into laggy gameplay, at least not from what I've seen.
Like Diablo 2 it has a similarly grimdark work separated into acts that starts off with a quest hub. The hubs are where you'll see other players running around, but unless you group with someone, you won't see another soul in the 'countryside' where the actual adventuring takes place.
As for the free-to-play model, apart from perhaps increasing you inventory size once or twice (for a reasonable amount I thought) all purchases are cosmetic and not needed at all to play the game. However, I do remember thinking that the prices for cosmetic prices seemed a bit steep. And of course to make the cosmetic items more attractive, the 'regular' armours are somewhat bland and limited in appearance. Though, there still are all manner of legendary type items you can come across that have their own cool and unique models.

Secret of Mana:
Pro: Chain cast magic, explore a vast and beautiful world with charming visuals and amazing music.
Cons: Wonky hitboxes, magic stuns, 4 items in a stack, item boxes can be trapped. Only 4 attack directions. Charge attacks look cool but aren't worth it.
Note: Was meant for another platform entirely.

Terranigma:
Pro: Help rebuild and resurrect the world, though the ages of time, in a beautifully crafted world with some of the best visuals and sound design the SNES could bring.
Cons: Magic is practically worthless. (There's a reason.) Only one weapon type ever. No random drops. Parts of game can be puzzling to figure out.
Note: No export for you! Enix of America was dead by this point, so it never saw a US release.

Illusion of Gaia:
Pro: Unveil a great world of mystery and intrigue. Transform into other forms to solve puzzles and help combat!
Cons: The levels get ridiculously expansive later. A lot of the game is more puzzle based than action based. Character growth is strictly linear, based on clearing rooms. Also falls into cryptic JRPG territory at times. Limited range options.

Soul Blazer:
Pro: Rebuild the world by freeing souls from monster lairs!
Con: Primitive as it was early SNES, magic system relies on a wonky flying soul that is inexact to position, mandatory backtrack, no way to heal self aside from leaving the level.
Note: Is the most like a top down Actraiser.

Have you ever played DIablo 2 SP? I tried it once MP and didn't enjoy it because I felt like I was letting everyone down. :P SO it's my favorite game ever.

No, but solely in terms of combat I'd imagine it's on par with 3, if not slightly inferior. Which also didn't click with me, but as I said, I'd be up for giving it another chance.

In which case:
Dragons dogma - great combat. Burned me out after one play through, so couldn't really get into it a second run.
Kindoms of amaular - great start, got very dull halfway through, gave up after that.
Hellgate London - jerky animation, repeting scenary, could have been good.

I think with over the shoulder tpa they always feel a bit mmo like to me and get boring pretty quickly. I will get round to mass effect one day.

It's on Blizzard right now but a little pricy, and you siomply CANNOT play it withou the LOD, another $9.

I can't play D3 because it requires a good internet connection, which floors me. StarCraft 2 and other games only require a connection period, but it doesn't need to be fast. It could be 1KB an hour, so long as you are technically on, you're good. They are screwing me with Diablo 3.

It's just the genre I'm getting in mood for, so it's what my thoughts are gravitating around. So, the reason in the same as why I don't include the more RPG-ish end of the spectrum.

Actually I'm currently playing Borderlands, these days, and considered starting Dragon Dogma, or reinstalling London Hellgate. But I feel more old-schooly today, and thought that I'd rather let other people bring those in the discussion if they felt like it.

I assume he meant top-down in the more general "bird view" sense than "seen from zenith". As opposed to first person or over-the-shoulder. Because it's also a distinction that I implicitely (and arbitrarily) made. Mostly, I'm uneasy about the "rent/borrow an online game" aspect. I like to feel that I own the object independantly, and can reinstall it at will, offline, etc. I haven't investigated this much, but I'm under the impression that PoE is not like a downloadable autonomous freeware à la Wesnoth.


But more or less all cRPG are "something inbetween". There are extremes at the ends of the spectrum (let's say from Diablo to Planescape) but most cRPG frustrate me when I'm in RPG mood. I used to even consider Baldur's Gate a diablo-like, given its focus on clearing up maps of nasties. And I actually enjoyed Neverwinter Nights more, because it felt more honestly going for the aRPG genre. Very few games (Fallout, Arcanum, etc) feel straight-up RPG to me. But all these games are on a continuum, from fantasy hack'n'slash to narrative and character-driven interactive stories.

So, by focusing on diablo-likes, as I do here, I feel like I'm already looking at one end of the spectrum (or one half, with an arbitrary limit -roughly defined at "Divine Divinity"- beyond which it gets too RPGey for today's mood).

Really? I've seen people play the game on multiplayer, on top of a mountain, on their phones' 3G connection.. Are you assuming, or have you tested it on their free trial for the game? It might take a bit too long to download it, but it's probably worth it to make sure.

I thought the subject was just Diablo-style hack n' slash games.

In that case, I'd like to bring up Nioh, one of my favorite games of the last year. It's sort of a cross between Ninja Gaiden, Dark Souls, and Diablo.

It has fast-paced, skill-based combat like Ninja Gaiden, but the combat is also stamina-based and high-risk/high-reward, like in Dark Souls. The experience and death mechanics were also inspired by Dark Souls. Beyond that, the game is also a loot grinder like Diablo. Complete with rarity tiers, random rolls on properties and set bonuses. During your first playthrough you can just use whatever strongest, but the game not only ups the difficulty, but introduces new loot mechanics with each NG+. By NG++ you'll be doing plenty of crafting, infusing and reforging in order to make a cohesive build around a very niche playstyle.

For what it's worth, I'm not a fan of Real-Time With Pause combat either. :-P

But I do consider them much closer to the turn-based end of the spectrum, while I place Diablo-clones more in the middle.

My classification here has more to do with how removed you are or not from the action, than straight up how RPGish it is.

If the subject was JRPGs, I have a similar bone to pick with Active-Time Battle systems, because I feel like they are a bad compromise between full-on Turn-based and Real-Time, making it the worst of both worlds.

I asked some Blizzard junkies and they said I needed a fast connection.
GameSpot says I need a fast connection, even for SP.

Maybe I should email Blizzard.

Is there a way to check my average upload speed?

How fast is your connection?

The free trial is probably the safest way to be sure though.

I'm on their site right now and found this:

"What happens with D3, is that calculations are done client-side and then *authenticated* server-side.
So say you click on a monster. Instead of sending that data to the server, your game client does the necessary calculations, and acts accordingly (you did x damage, so reduce monster hp by x). What it then does is send THAT data to the server, which then checks if there was no funny business in the calculation.
So instead of asking the server "Player clicked on monster, what do I do?",
the client asks "Player clicked on monster and I told him he caused 200 damage, is that alright?"
Assuming that everything checks out, the server sends back a message saying "Sure, that's fine."


I have a great download next to no upload. Is there a public tester around so I could get you an actual number?

EDITED. screwed up my copy paste.
Found one and I know shit about this stuff or the terms. :P

Side-scrollers.

I don't consider so-called "ARPG"s to be RPGs myself, but I know what sort of game is generally being referred to.

You're joking, right? 50mbps is a great connection. 2mbps should be enough to play Diablo 3.

Even if I were to accept the other games on your list as RPGs of some sort, Illusion of Gaia doesn't really belong on the list; it is pretty much devoid of the mechanics that are usually found in games called "ARPG"s.