In playing both JRPGs and WRPGs, I have noticed one rather significant difference in the way towns are handled, one that I can date back as far as The Bard's Tale (on the WRPG side) and Dragon Quest (on the JRPG side).

In a JRPG, towns are safe spaces (unless a scripted event says otherwise). Towns allow you to rest (you can't do that in the wilderness in JRPGs), get information by talking to people, buy and sell equipment, and other similar town things. What they *don't* let you do is murder townspeople, steal from shops, and fight random monsters for experience (for that last point, try going into the wilderness or a dungeon). In fact, JRPGs don't *let* you perform combat actions in town; even JRPGs that lack screen transitions for battles don't allow it. Also, sometimes mechanics like poison and (in roguelikes) hunger are suspended in town

In a WRPG, towns are not safe spaces. You can attack (in many, you can attack arbitrary townspeople) or get attacked in town, you can steal (and get caught), and many other things. The role of a town as a place to rest is made unnecessary by the ability to rest in the wilderness, and some WRPGs seem to specifically disallow resting in towns (while letting you rest anywhere else), which I find annoying and (from a gameplay standpoint) nonsensical. Typically, you still have a full range of actions available in towns, unlike in JRPGs.

Part of the reason I have been thinking of this lately is that I noticed that this trend applies to roguelikes. For example, consider Minetown from Nethack and Mountaintop Town from Shiren the Wanderer. In Minetown, you are still treated as being in a dungeon; enemies can spawn (and be killed), shops are dungeon shops, you can starve or die of poison (and regenerate health as usual), and son on. In Mountaintop Town, on the other hand, many of the game's mechanics are suspended; monsters don't spawn, you don't get hungry (and you don't heal either), and the game doesn't behave like you're in a dungeon.

What are your thoughts on this difference? Is there a particular style you prefer? (I think I prefer JRPG-style towns.)

The safe space towns in JRPGs are an inflexible genre convention that in a way gives gameplay more structure. It's clear enough that particularly Western open world experiences are veering away from these conventions aiming at a more believable world and more flexible storytelling. Totally understandable goals, but I think I do have a soft spot for the JRPG way of handling this as well. There's no 'objectively better' in rendering a more realistic experience. JRPGs distinguish between the dangers of the wilderness and the security of the town, that's a clear line you cross as some kind of strategic decision, maybe like in a board game. That's less complexity, less realism, and maybe more player control and clear cut game mechanics? Difficult to label.

i love the way jrpgs do this, generally anyway. I can think of a few exceptions to this rule but some of my favorite moments in jrpgs come from that break in between encounters and dramatic moments. Final fantasy 6 was great about this for instance, final fantasy 8 was terrible about this shoving you along from story beat to story beat with little moment to breathe.

I don't know about the whole can only rest in town vs can't rest in town business. Usually, at least in Final Fantasy, you can rest using some sort of item on the world map as well as in selected areas in dungeons. I think I've come across this in other jRPGs as well. As for resting in town, it's usually in an inn, costing money (though less than what 'tent' some such usually costs). In wRPGs you can typically sleep in town, but need to rent a room in order to do so, where as you can rest wherever outside of towns, just not as well and often with a risk of having your rest interrupted by enemies. The real point of towns in wRPGs is as quest hubs as well as a place to sell your loot (and a place to store your shit in some games).

As for towns being safe spaces, I would say that for the most part that tends to hold for wRPGs as well. It's not as clear cut of a sanctuary though, but it is usually safer than the outside world, unless you stir up some trouble by your own initiative or through some quest.

I have a general preference for wRPGs and the greater freedom they typically offer, although I do still enjoy jRPGs.

I prefer the JRPG method: They use towns as a way to create atmosphere and make players more attached to the characters within them. While WRPGs offer more freedom, the people in cities are disposable - and the lack of feeling makes it easier to move on to the next checkmark.

Persona 3 & 4 take the JRPG method to the extreme, as the player is kept within a single city when not dungeon crawling. Ditto for the Harvest Moon series.

I prefer hybrids.

The towns in Avernum are safe, (Monsters can't get in.) but they can lead into minor encounters or full dungeons.

Why have my post and Darvond's in this topic been "low rated"?

Actually, I have decided that I am going to report this.

Actually, that's also true of the game I'm playing right now, Torneko: The Last Hope.

You have a town in which you can do various things, like store/sell equipment, save the game, meld weapons or shields together, buy bread, and talk to the townspeople, in which there's no combat or other dungeon mechanics. Then, when you go into a dungeon, you get full roguelike dungeon mechanics (exception: dying simply returns you to town (or lets you retry the dungeon) minus half your gold and all the items you are carrying). Once you beat the dungeon, you go back to town (and your level is reduced to 1), and are back to doing only town things. Repeat until done.

Anyone else have anything to say on this topic?

(Also, please note that, by downrepping the first post of this topic, you are sending a message that video game discussion is not welcome on this forum. Is this *really* the message you want to send?)

You mean Vainamoinen? Darvond post is intact.
Are you going to report people for disagreeing with something you said?

If you include some western ARPGs, then you also have towns as safe spaces where get missions and talk to people. Diablo 2, Titan Quest and Path of Exile for example. Though, as they are ARPGs they are pretty light on the npc interaction side. So towns aren't that interesting. They are more like pit stops in between the carnage.

My favorite rpg depiction of towns? Definitely Fallout 2 and 3. Ie mostly safe.

There is a Diablo clone sold here where the town IS NOT a safe zone and it makes the game way more harder than is really worth the effort.

I can imagine. I want my arpg towns to be safe so that I can safely sort through the 134 items I picked up during the last excursion. Which game though? Torchlight, nox?

Why shouldn't you be able to rest in the wilderness? Haven't you been camping? And why would the town guards let you sleep on the streets? I think in this matter Baldur's Gate's approach was fine. You could rest in the wilderness, but with the risk of being attacked during the night. In towns you could rest but only in inns. Also why would towns be completely safe? Crime and violence happen in towns usually even more often than outside. So I have to vote for WRPGs here too.