Oh hell, this just occurred to me.

I've been categorizing my games after moving my Steam library primarily to GoG and Switch and playing through tons of different things, and was trying to figure out how to label Anodyne. It's a Zelda-like, and I was trying to decide if I should have a category for Zelda-like games that aren't RPGs.

I supposed I could also add it to the Puzzles category, but it suddenly occurred to me it makes much more sense to call it a top-down metroidvania. Running across a top-down map hitting the same places multiple times, sometimes having some type of warp or secret passage travel mechanism, and powering up through new items or upgrades. Huh. That sounds like a metroidvania ...

I bet now this has occurred to others as well, I've just never seen that label applied to Anodyne or similar games before.

I just call those games Zelda-likes. It's distinctive enough to work as a genre.

(Even though, these days, I believe the majority of Zelda games aren't Zelda-likes by this definition.)

It was classically, a top down adventure game.

Also, it's not open enough to be a "troidvania", seeing as it has several MUST HAVE THIS areas, like the raft, ladder, the 8 triforce pieces, a source of fire, the bow & arrows, and so on.

I'd argue that the original Zelda might actually be *too* open compared to the likes of, say, Metroid.
* The need for the triforce pieces isn't any different from the need to kill all the major bosses in Metroid (and Super Metroid, for that matter).
* There's plenty of freedom in the order in which you do levels 1-8. In fact, in the second quest, numerical order isn't even the easiest order (and I don't remember whether that order is actually possible).
* Raft is only needed to access 1 dungeon, though it's needed for the ladder.
* I don't think bow is needed for much. There's like one boss type enemy that needs the bow.
* There's multiple sources of fire.
* Even the sword can be skipped until the final battle. People have reached Ganon swordless.

I can understand the argument, but if you were playing without glitches, there are some absolute musts which turn every play though into a singular route.

You cannot skip the Triforce, the dungeon refuses to let you advance without them.
You cannot skip the bow nor the silver arrows, these are absolute to defeat Ganon after a deathblow by the sword.
You need the sword to deal blows to Ganon in the first place.
I don't know if you require bombs, but I feel you do for absolute advancement.

Link to the Past, Ganon can be defeated without the silver arrows, but it takes a while. (Unless that was added by the randomizers.)

You can get to Ganon without the sword, though.

The only dungeon that requires any part of the Triforce to access is the very last one; there's plenty of freedom up until that point. (It's not that different from the requirement in Metriod/Super Metroid to kill all major bosses before entering Tourian.)

You may not be able to skip the bow entirely, but you can certainly delay getting it until late in the game, perhaps (in the first quest) not even entering Level 1 until you've cleared most of the game.

Bombs appear as a random drop. The way I see it, you start with them; it's just that the initial quantity happens to be 0. (Contrast this with Ocarina of Time, where you can't even get bombs until you get the Bomb Bag.)

I consider killing LttP Ganon without the silver arrows to be a glitch.

(Incidentally, for LttP a No Minor Glitches speedrun category might be interesting. The minor glitches, like killing Ganon without the silver arrows, aren't allowed, but the major glitches, like the Exploration Glitch and the Bottle Adventure glitch, are. To keep this category interesting, I would require that Ganon be killed; otherwise this becomes identical to the unrestricted Any% run.)

For those unaware, the term "Metroidvania" is a reference to both the main Metroid and earlier Castlevania games...but it didn't really kick into high gear until "Super Metroid" became a hit on the SNES, followed by "Symphony of the Night" on the original Playstation. The original "Legend of Zelda" was released in 1987, and had the distinction of being the first nonlinear exploration title. It pioneered all that would come later, and not just those two other franchises, but similar ones like Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts.

I double-checked, and it turns out the original Zelda game was released for the Famicom in February of 1986. You're right about the dates for Ultima IV, Might & Magic, and Dragon Quest (a.k.a. Dragon Warrior for us on the other side of the pond). Still, what Shigeru Miyamoto came up with for Link's first entry was revolutionary for its time, in both hemispheres of the world. There have been 21 main entries in that series, compared to 28 for Castlevania, 12 for Might & Magic, 11 for Dragon Quest, and just 9 for Ultima.

I've always lumped Zelda [the real Zeldas, not that Breath of the Wild stuff] in with them, yes. "You need XYZ upgraded item/power to progress through XYZ.gate" with lots of backtracking and remembering of prevoius places once you get such powers.

Immersive sims are first person metroidvanias.

...

Fight me.

I'd argue that there's either 10 for Ultima (counting Ultima Online) or only 10 for Dragon Quest (not counting Dragon Quest 10, since it's an MMO).

How do you get 12 for Might & Magic? (I'm aware of only 10; I count World of Xeen as 2, but don't count Swords of Xeen at all, since it's just a mod that somehow saw commercial release.)