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I've had this thought for a little while now. We typically think of fantasy as being all swords and magic, something derivative of something derivative, i.e. Elder Scrolls et al is derivative of DnD which is derivative of Tolkien which was derivative of European fairy tales and folklore. All fiction of course is fantasy, but I'd like to propose for this discussion that fantasy is something distinct from more mundane fiction set in our world, disconnected from Earth.

So here's what's tickling my funny bone: Grand Theft Auto, Saints Row, anything that's set in our modern world is a few references removed from being fantasy. These games don't have to be set in the United States, they're set in cities that are analogs to the real thing. They have their own history, their own brands (cars, guns usually), nothing from the real world aside from some fantasized references and maybe an American flag somewhere. They are a few changed lines from being completely set on a different planet.

Which I think would make an interesting thought experiment. Why isn't there more just straight modern fantasy? I don't mean with magic and stuff, I mean a world that is completely separate from our own that just simply looks like it. You could make up whatever you want and have it be set in a modern glass and steel city and there'd be guns and cars. I already know the answer as to why there isn't more, it's a case of people wanting something familiar, anything resembling our world would be uncanny if it were described as not being set on Earth. Gears of War already kind of fits this in that it's not connected to Earth in any way, Sera is a place with its own history, but it's usually lumped in science fiction.

So what interesting things do you think could be achieved with the concept? Do you think such an idea could even take off? What examples do you know of would fit the bill?
I've always wanted GTA Discworld- set in Ankh Morpork. Even better if it was an L.A. Noir style game where you play as a new City watch recruit. The scope for ridiculous side missions with some of the established characters like CMOT Dibbler and Gaspode the Wonder Dog...it just goes on. With only a handful of point and click adventure games, Discworld is a vastly underutilized potential license. Unfortunately it would be difficult to find someone to do the writing justice.
Post edited February 20, 2022 by CMOT70
As quick search results, you have a category on Wikipedia, though there are rather few entries there, a reddit discussion about just this, with some lists provided, and a longer list on Gamepressure.
Post edited February 20, 2022 by Cavalary
And more simply what you've described more simply is commonly known as the Power Fantasy.
Post edited February 20, 2022 by Darvond
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Warloch_Ahead: I've had this thought for a little while now. We typically think of fantasy as being all swords and magic, something derivative of something derivative, i.e. Elder Scrolls et al is derivative of DnD which is derivative of Tolkien which was derivative of European fairy tales and folklore. All fiction of course is fantasy, but I'd like to propose for this discussion that fantasy is something distinct from more mundane fiction set in our world, disconnected from Earth.

So here's what's tickling my funny bone: Grand Theft Auto, Saints Row, anything that's set in our modern world is a few references removed from being fantasy. These games don't have to be set in the United States, they're set in cities that are analogs to the real thing. They have their own history, their own brands (cars, guns usually), nothing from the real world aside from some fantasized references and maybe an American flag somewhere. They are a few changed lines from being completely set on a different planet.

Which I think would make an interesting thought experiment. Why isn't there more just straight modern fantasy? I don't mean with magic and stuff, I mean a world that is completely separate from our own that just simply looks like it. You could make up whatever you want and have it be set in a modern glass and steel city and there'd be guns and cars. I already know the answer as to why there isn't more, it's a case of people wanting something familiar, anything resembling our world would be uncanny if it were described as not being set on Earth. Gears of War already kind of fits this in that it's not connected to Earth in any way, Sera is a place with its own history, but it's usually lumped in science fiction.

So what interesting things do you think could be achieved with the concept? Do you think such an idea could even take off? What examples do you know of would fit the bill?
It's an interesting topic to me. I guess it's because of the appeal this kind of fiction or interactive media would have.
Maybe, the majority of big companies developers would think that if it's a fantasy world based in our world, why not turn it into some kind of simulator/arcade action adventure?
Some ideas may be really influential in a closed spectrum of time and opportunity. They may sound really cool and practical, but unfortunately not many companies would want to work with it in this window of time which we all are in.
Some themes are really cultural and historical. By that I mean, some themes may only 'be created' or 'worked on' through historical influence and while time passes naturally.
And by that, I mean, that you're right. But probably some company will only work with these ideas in 10 years, or, someone might be working on them right now.

There's also the psychological, social and cultural aspect of gaming and any kind of media really.
Humans are normally attracted by something that they have familiarity with to some degree.
For example, Star Wars weapons. In this media, they've created weapons that we've never seen in real life, but anyone with some degree of knowledge will know a Lightsaber looks like a Sword, so it might be a Sword, used to cut and pierce. Their laser guns are black, used by some kind of militarized army and they somehow shoot red, blue and green beams of light that kill people. Like you said, it's not our world, but we see familiarities with our world.

With that example I want to explain that Star Wars is an relatively old media creation and at that time the cultural influence in the west was about travelling to space, exploring unknown worlds, so this would sell well. Not that this theme isn't around anymore, it is, we can see it everywhere. It's just not so strong in some cultures, therefore, they tend to produce other kinds of media.

Each culture and population, therefore, their companies, including gaming companies, be it aaa or indie, will produce what is somehow influential at that time period culturally and socially. And this also includes politics. That's why we see so many productions full of ideologies in movies and games right now. It's also a natural consequence of political, ideological and sociological behaviour of trying to influence the masses with what might sell, or, depending on who is producing it, with what kind of mentality they want their audience to have.

It's a really interesting topic.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts too.

Edit:

Also sorry for the big text on the "Why" topic.
I forgot to talk about the Concept in it's own.
The problem is that I never tried to create this specific kind of world myself, so I have no idea what would 'take off'.
As you may see, though, I like to chat about the why people do what they do. :P


And, a good recommendation:
https://www.gog.com/en/game/eye_divine_cybermancy

I guess it fits this genre. :)
Post edited February 20, 2022 by _Line
Based on that definition, a ton of modern fantasies exist imo.

Final Fantasy XV fits that definition, a modern world where people own cars and even have some similar products but also a world where people can cast magic and summon weapons out of thin air.

For a more "realistic" modern fantasy, the Metal Gear series. You yourself are a super soldier but dont have any magic powers but face off against psychics, a guy that can control thunder, and a modern cowboy.

Extend the definition enough and technically all Call of Duties are modern fantasies. One solider basically solving world war x.
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Tokyo_Bunny_8990: Based on that definition, a ton of modern fantasies exist imo.

Final Fantasy XV fits that definition, a modern world where people own cars and even have some similar products but also a world where people can cast magic and summon weapons out of thin air.

For a more "realistic" modern fantasy, the Metal Gear series. You yourself are a super soldier but dont have any magic powers but face off against psychics, a guy that can control thunder, and a modern cowboy.

Extend the definition enough and technically all Call of Duties are modern fantasies. One solider basically solving world war x.
Yup. Metal Gear is a good example too. With many cultural references but in a probable fantasy world with faster technology advancement than ours. As the later games explains, it's also about nanomachines (Every boss in the series? Except...) and biological control through mutual and natural agreement. (Sniper Wolf, The Pain, The End, The Sorrow, Code Talker etc)
Post edited February 20, 2022 by _Line
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CMOT70: I've always wanted GTA Discworld- set in Ankh Morpork. Even better if it was an L.A. Noir style game where you play as a new City watch recruit. The scope for ridiculous side missions with some of the established characters like CMOT Dibbler and Gaspode the Wonder Dog...it just goes on. With only a handful of point and click adventure games, Discworld is a vastly underutilized potential license. Unfortunately it would be difficult to find someone to do the writing justice.
That could be the greatest game ever, but is all down to the writing. I am not sure anyone could capture Terry’s unique style.
low rated
Every fiction/historical romance is a fantasy/alt-history to some extent. Three musketeers never existed.
But they lack magic, wonder and world-saving elements. I think Square Enix more "modern setting" titles (World Ends With You, Life is Strange) fit better in this category.

PS: Another question stems from that of the OP: is the whole superhero genre, especially the superhero group genre popular in '90 and now raging on in animes, a giant subgenre of fantasy? If Tolkien had not been a scholar of german sagas, his heroes would have been greek-inspired, or 100% arthurian legend/gaulish/fairy tale heroes (as in victorian protofantasy). But if he was born in the 1930s or 1960s, they would have been probably rocketmen landing on Mars or superheroes.
(ok, anime heroes are officially cast as samurais, ninjas, occult detectives and the like but they've come so close to classic comics dynamics, while comics have incorporated oriental elements in developing plot and characters, so it's not so different, not anymore at least )
Post edited February 20, 2022 by marcob
I thought you were talking about this.

What you're describing sounds more like Sci-Fi than fantasy to me. If it's not magic you're thinking about, what makes it fantasy? And what about something like Star Wars: The Old Republic (MMO, not GTA-clone, but open world, I suppose; never played it myself). Or the LotR/Shadow series or Batman Arkham series or Saints Row IV?
Post edited February 20, 2022 by Leroux
I apologize if I've written the opening post in a non-succinct way or if the concept is a bit too abstract, but the entire point can be boiled down to "Earth, but not Earth". I believe Ace Combat is exactly what I'm talking about with Strangereal.
I guess the most obvious problem is this: if a game is set on a different planet that looks almost exactly like our modern world, why not just set it in the modern world? Creating a completely new setting with its own history, culture, fashions etc. is a lot of work. It makes sense for 'medieval fantasy' type of settings because you avoid having to do detailed research into the actual historical period, which would be even more work (just watch some videos on the making of Kingdom Come: Deliverance). But for modern settings, it's much easier to make up a fake town or even country that doesn't technically exist, but could easily exist in the real world.

I'm really struggling to think of many 'Earth, but not Earth' settings other than superhero games like the Batman series. For example, Gotham City is similar to many real-world cities, but has its own distinct history and politics - it's not just a fake New York or 'generic US city'. And the universe it's set in is very like our own, but with just enough differences (existence of mutants, superpowered beings etc.) to cross the line into fantasy. However, it's more an 'alternate universe' thing than an entirely new setting.
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DebbieL: I guess the most obvious problem is this: if a game is set on a different planet that looks almost exactly like our modern world, why not just set it in the modern world? Creating a completely new setting with its own history, culture, fashions etc. is a lot of work. It makes sense for 'medieval fantasy' type of settings because you avoid having to do detailed research into the actual historical period, which would be even more work (just watch some videos on the making of Kingdom Come: Deliverance). But for modern settings, it's much easier to make up a fake town or even country that doesn't technically exist, but could easily exist in the real world.

I'm really struggling to think of many 'Earth, but not Earth' settings other than superhero games like the Batman series. For example, Gotham City is similar to many real-world cities, but has its own distinct history and politics - it's not just a fake New York or 'generic US city'. And the universe it's set in is very like our own, but with just enough differences (existence of mutants, superpowered beings etc.) to cross the line into fantasy. However, it's more an 'alternate universe' thing than an entirely new setting.
Saint's Row, Watch Dogs, and several other sandbox games benefit greatly from having legally distinct brands for cars, stores, and non-interactive products because that's a lot of product-placement they don't have to struggle with legally.
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Warloch_Ahead: So here's what's tickling my funny bone: Grand Theft Auto, Saints Row, anything that's set in our modern world is a few references removed from being fantasy. These games don't have to be set in the United States, they're set in cities that are analogs to the real thing. They have their own history, their own brands (cars, guns usually), nothing from the real world aside from some fantasized references and maybe an American flag somewhere. They are a few changed lines from being completely set on a different planet.
No, they aren't. The gravity is the same, the weather is the same, technologies are the same. The general laws of nature are the same. Fantasy is a genre that is specifically set in the worlds that operate by different rules. Sure, they can look like our world (DC and Marvel do, even if they have superheroes that defy the usual laws of physics and thus are considered "superhero fantasy") but they always have fantastical elements that don't exist in everyday life.

Saints Row actually does have some of those fantastical elements, so it can indeed be considered fantasy. But as far as GTA I never saw anything that wouldn't be possible in the real world (other than some gameplay conventionalities).
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LootHunter: No, they aren't. The gravity is the same, the weather is the same, technologies are the same. The general laws of nature are the same. Fantasy is a genre that is specifically set in the worlds that operate by different rules. Sure, they can look like our world (DC and Marvel do, even if they have superheroes that defy the usual laws of physics and thus are considered "superhero fantasy") but they always have fantastical elements that don't exist in everyday life.
The thing is that fantasy very rarely concerns itself with the basic data of the planet it's set on, even when completely fantastical it tends to be assumed that gravity's the same, day and year are the same or at least similar enough to make no difference, atmospheric composition, planet type, star type... Those being different tends to be seen as the realm of sci-fi, and science-fantasy when fantasy elements are also present. Maybe convention, seeing as the authors need to create a different world and laws of nature to begin with, they don't also bother with these basics, and don't bother the audience with them either, maybe even more so as a leftover from the time when fantasy was mainly meant at tween boys who might not have been too keen on hard science (then again, much heroic fantasy tends to still be that). On the other hand, some "Earth but not Earth" fantasy can be, either specifically or by assumption, set on an alternate universe Earth, so some laws of nature differ but the actual planet's the same.