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real.geizterfahr: Cut out the top manager crap...
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GoatBoy: I don't cut out anything because you say me to. First, because I don't take orders from you. Second, because I am reporting facts. Check them, it might help.

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real.geizterfahr: I once knew a greek dude...
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GoatBoy: So? I know a Spanish drug dealer. And a Spanish surgeon. What does that even mean? This is the kind of useless bullshit that distracts from the real issues.

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real.geizterfahr: If German politicians were helping them for decades? Yes! Sure, the average German wouldn't be responsible, but... Who else should pay for it? Italy?
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GoatBoy: Do you really want me to answer a third conditional?
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OlivawR: So if it is not corruption, what is the problem there? I just can't wait to get an answer to what is happening there. Who knows, maybe there's a black hole there and the Greeks should ask money to let those who can study it.
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GoatBoy: In a word? Mercantilism.

In many more words, you can find a lot of educated guesses in this thread.
You need to expand your mercantilism theory because I can't see anything related to the situation the Greeks are in.
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GoatBoy: Do you really want me to answer a third conditional?
I better don't say what I want you to do... Instead I'll just ask you to look for someone else to rant at -.-
AFAIK Greece cooked their books, with the help of bankers, to enter the Eurozone. Then French and German politicians pushed hard to remove other obstacles (such as ongoing infrigements and the reserves of the European Statistical Office regarding the quality of the Greek accounts), arguing that there were anyway criteria to observe (Maastricht criteria). Then it suited the largest countries not to observe thr criteria, so the Institutions closed their eyes on Greece too. But Greece had kept cooking its accounts and eventually that could not be kept hidden.

The bailouts are only one side of the issue. I very much doubt that the proposed 3rd bailout would change anything to the situation of the dysfunctional Greek state finances. But a disorderly unbundling of the "emergency liquidity assistance "(126 Bn €, more than the total value of Greek deposits_ this is not liquidity but solvency assistance ) and the disruption of the Target balances would cause major trouble to the Eurosystem.

The issue is :for me how do you trust such a monetary system,?

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Riotact: AFAIK Greece lie about their financial status to get into the EU. They should never have been allowed in. The previous government even lied about the recent financial status which was only realised when the current government got into power.
(...)
Greece is only a very tiny %-age of EU's GDP, the biggest problem they will cause is on the money markets for other EU countries trying to raise money. The value of the euro will drop making exports cheaper which can be good in the short term, hopefully good enough to get the EU over the hump before that piper has to be paid because of rising import prices.

I think the EU is now strong enough financially to weather this storm compared to the last time Greece had to be bailed out.
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Elmofongo: Russia is tempting Greece to leave to EU. EU does not want to abandon Greece to not give Russia anything despite that the Greek debts is bringing down the whole EU.
Can't speak for all Russia but your statement is not accurate. If Greece fall and leave EU then we will get another economic disruption on global level, meaning that leading currencies and stock market indexes will decline greatly, since our local currency [RUB] is very dependable we will fall with all the others.
As for the people. Again can't tell for all Russians, but me and my close ones sees Greece people as victims of debt scheme. Some will tell that EU to blame for every sin, some that Greece just lawn too much money and dug its own *grave*.
As for the politics. Many Russians are told what to think by news media. And they tell us that US & EU are bad, while we are good and God with us and blah-blah-blah.
Personally I like Greece, been there once, great people. It's a pity...
Post edited June 30, 2015 by Cadaver747
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OlivawR: You need to expand your mercantilism theory because I can't see anything related to the situation the Greeks are in.
May I let a German economist explain it?
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Elmofongo: Russia is tempting Greece to leave to EU. EU does not want to abandon Greece to not give Russia anything despite that the Greek debts is bringing down the whole EU.
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Cadaver747: Can't speak for all Russia but your statement is not accurate. If Greece fall and leave EU then we will get another economic disruption on global level, meaning that leading currencies and stock market indexes will decline greatly, since our local currency [RUB] is very dependable we will fall with all the others.
As for the people. Again can't tell for all Russians, but me and my close ones sees Greece people as victims of debt scheme. Some will tell that EU to blame for every sin, some that Greece just lawn too much money and dug its own *grave*.
As for the politics. Many Russians are told what to think by news media. And they tell us that US & EU are bad, while we are good and God with us and blah-blah-blah.
Personally I like Greece, been there once, great people. It's a pity...
I have said in that post:

"I AM OPEN TO CORRECTIONS" Because even I don't know whether my statements was accurate.
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Elmofongo: I have said in that post:

"I AM OPEN TO CORRECTIONS" Because even I don't know whether my statements was accurate.
Yeap, I seen your *POST*, my goal was not to object yours but only to add different point of view. Russian politics and people are not the same. So you guessed right from politic perspective, our government hate how Europe *turned their backs on Russia*, but TV news released several reports concerning Greece situation with more or less discreet evaluation so far.
Don't take my post as correction or counter-argument. Just my opinion.

EDIT: Our propaganda machine is strong here, so in Ukraine and I heard that even in German schools kids learn to be afraid of Putin (for whatever reason). Some of Russians hate US and dislike EU because they are told to do so. But some don't watch news so often preferring playing games and visit GOG community ;)
Post edited June 30, 2015 by Cadaver747
Simple chain Crisis in eurozone = crisis of production=lesser oil demand=drop on oil prices=bad for Russia.
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Gremlion: Simple chain Crisis in eurozone = crisis of production=lesser oil demand=drop on oil prices=bad for Russia.
That's what you get for getting rid of communism. I'd pretty sure Russia was essentially immune to market prices during the Cold War because they had no connection to the international system.
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Gremlion: Simple chain Crisis in eurozone = crisis of production=lesser oil demand=drop on oil prices=bad for Russia.
= cripple rouble = less money = growing debt (with no possibility to lawn from USD/EUR banks due to sanctions) = running printing presses at full capacity = inflation = social unrest and so on...
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Gremlion: Simple chain Crisis in eurozone = crisis of production=lesser oil demand=drop on oil prices=bad for Russia.
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Crosmando: That's what you get for getting rid of communism. I'd pretty sure Russia was essentially immune to market prices during the Cold War because they had no connection to the international system.
We have a variety of conspiracy theories that big players from outside were involved in corruption Soviet Union and they succeed. Many years passed, some of them were proved to be partially correct.
My point is that we were *helped* to get rid of communism. Also communism like democratic society is a big bubble myth, it does not exist in reality.
Post edited June 30, 2015 by Cadaver747
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Gremlion: Simple chain Crisis in eurozone = crisis of production=lesser oil demand=drop on oil prices=bad for Russia.
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Crosmando: That's what you get for getting rid of communism. I'd pretty sure Russia was essentially immune to market prices during the Cold War because they had no connection to the international system.
There's always some sort of a market. During the Cold War it was just a black market in most of Eastern Europe, same as there was on both sides (Axis and Allies) for things like chocolate, sugar, butter, gasoline, and nylons during WWII.
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Gremlion: Simple chain Crisis in eurozone = crisis of production=lesser oil demand=drop on oil prices=bad for Russia.
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Cadaver747: = cripple rouble = less money = growing debt (with no possibility to lawn from USD/EUR banks due to sanctions) = running printing presses at full capacity = inflation = social unrest and so on...
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Crosmando: That's what you get for getting rid of communism. I'd pretty sure Russia was essentially immune to market prices during the Cold War because they had no connection to the international system.
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Cadaver747: We have a variety of conspiracy theories that big players from outside were involved in corruption Soviet Union and they succeed. Many years passed, some of them were proved to be partially correct.
My point is that we were *helped* to get rid of communism. Also communism like democratic society is a big bubble myth, it does not exist in reality.
Stalin's communism is nothing like what Marx envisioned.

Also this guy is to blame for the USSR's collapse and revival into the Russian Federation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Yeltsin
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Elmofongo: ...its only a matter of time until everyone reaches a consensus.
that is good joke. 1 clap for you.
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OlivawR: You need to expand your mercantilism theory because I can't see anything related to the situation the Greeks are in.
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GoatBoy: May I let a German economist explain it?
He talked mainly about productivity and competitiveness. I just can't see how this put the Greeks in this debt crisis? From what markets where the Greek companies booted out by the Germans?
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Elmofongo: Stalin's communism is nothing like what Marx envisioned.

Also this guy is to blame for the USSR's collapse and revival into the Russian Federation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Yeltsin
So? Obama's democracy is nothing like what Cleisthenes envisioned it ;))

And this guy [Boris] was the gift from heavens to US companies, we've never had so many crap goods from US before, and so many unprofitable oil agreements as well. We smoked cigarettes with toxins which were banned in US/EU, we used to eat food with genetically modified organisms while they were labeled in 1st degree countries.

Boris was a corrupt drunk (may his soul rest in peace), and if you really want to blame someone then blame population. He was elected after all.
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GoatBoy: May I let a German economist explain it?
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OlivawR: He talked mainly about productivity and competitiveness. I just can't see how this put the Greeks in this debt crisis? From what markets where the Greek companies booted out by the Germans?
I like this better The European Debt Crisis Visualized by Bloomberg
Post edited June 30, 2015 by Cadaver747