Maybe you don't take a chance until they go on deep sale, but claiming you HAVE to pirate a game first makes you a thief!

And how many games have you pirated and then decided out of the goodness of your heart to pay for later?

This is the real problem with piracy/abandonware sites. People like LootHunter who somehow think they have a right for everything free.

Let me put it this way, I play very few AAA games. The ones I do, I wait years for the discount I want. I haven't played any of the modern COD games except a bit of Advanced Warfare on a friend's computer. I haven't played Starcraft 2 or Diablo 3 or Skyrim. And it doesn't really bother me at all. I'll be patient and wait until the price is where I want to pay for it, hopefully DRM-free here on GoG.

There are tons of games to play that can be had at a can't lose price on sale. I have enough now to probably last me my entire life. All legit. And I have a substantial collection on Steam, all had very cheaply in bundles.

Trust me. There is no legitimate reason to pirate games. Anyone who does is a thief.

As I've said - it's your fault that game publishers spend more money on marketing than on the game itself. You and people, who say that I should pay for crappy games to play them and know they are crappy.
Enough. Trust me thats quite a few.
And quality of modern games is the problem because of people like RWarehall. Because they pay for games no matter, how crappy they are.
And how you determine what discount game deserves?
And any developer, who doesn't fulfill given promises is a scammer. So you are a scam accomplice.

The two of you are playing a game of "X happened because of you." Is there anything that didn't happen because of either of you?

*Bypassing DRM
*A longer-term version of the above by having a backup copy
*Getting a copy of a game you bought before
*Getting games that are regionally blocked (whether you bought them or not)
*Preservation (like it or not, abandonware sites are a very good way for GOG to deliver games on publishers' behalf, and like it or not, it's the best way to keep a game floating alive. Whether you want to fight and argue and make a fuss over someone 'pirating' a game from a company that long went under and a game that isn't even on sale is your problem at this point)
*Pirating games I already bought a legal version of for curiosity or experimentation
*Living in a country where even the cheapest game is the very definition of burning your entire wallet

Whether you want to label all pirates as 'thieves' or not is also your problem, in spite of the aforementioned reasons. In reality, piracy isn't a black and white matter. Those who don't pirate are not inherently good guys, and those who do pirate are not inherently bad guys either. It's a gray area, not a black one. Piracy also doesn't involve taking away an item from someone illegal, you copy the original file and the original is intact. Anyways.

But let's suppose it's theft, somehow. We're debating here about abandonware games. Theft implies there's an original owner of the product. How is it theft if the owner no longer sees any profit from the game in question? How is it theft if the owner no longer exists for whatever the reason? In this case, I'm talking about products that used to be in the selling circulation in the public, and not a private property that only a select party is meant to enjoy.

LOL
But you haven't explained how I shut up those imbeciles who praize crappy games.
Yeah, exactly. It doesn't matter if game costs $60 or $1 - if developers don't do their job properly they shouldn't be supported.
Yeah, let's forgot good old games and embrace modern crap. I wonder, how gog user can even say so!
Yeah, 2 hours is certainly enough to learn about unsatisfactory ending in 100+ hour game. Or to learn ins and outs in Fallout 4.
Capitalism... Well, actually it's cool quote! If you can't pay for something, you don't deserve it!

I wonder how a GoG user can so blatantly support piracy when the whole idea of GoG and their stance on DRM-free is that users will not pirate games, but pay for them instead.

You are proving GoG wrong with every post...

Than you'll never understand.

I've tried over and over again to emphasize that I am not talking about games that have been re-released and sold by current IP rights holders. They are out of the scope of what I am talking about.

That's why I mentioned e.g. games with expired licenses which make quite sure said games will not be re-released.

Also, I personally haven't made any clear "yes people have the right" or "no, never" stance of such games. Legally abandonware sites which offer commercial games (even if they are not currently sold anywhere) are pirate sites. Whether I feel it is morally wrong to download some decades old game which most probably will never be re-released (due to e,g, expired licenses, or IP rights owner is not known, or...) well... grey area to me.

I must admit though I was surprised to learn how archive.org can so openly offer all MAME games for download, because AFAIK there indeed are games there which are also sold in some form at least for some systems.

I'm waiting for "The legendary piracy debate".

And personally I think that playing abandonware is just ordinary piracy and nothing special about it. The only way to ethically staying clean would be to immediately donate a certain, large, sum to the alleged IP rights holder before playing or to refrain. I think it's okay to not have everything. The right of an IP holder to not sell his property has a higher value. On the other hand the risk of being convicted for illegal downloads is quite small. The better way for the authorities is probably to go for the suppliers of abandonware.

I think in today's market content providers would rather go after TPB, Kickass Torrents and other sites sharing modern games that is hurting sales of recently released games, I doubt a lot of them go after games that no longer on sale, a few might.

That pretty much explains why Captain Claw has sequels and re-releases. Oh wait, no! You can make excuses all you want for why I should not, EVER, download a game that's not even on sale from 1970 in the year 2100. The fact remains it is utterly pointless to complain that I should get newer games 'legally' just because getting this game for free somehow denies the owner money. No. There really is no excuse wasting your time with you. No matter what views get thrown into your face, you still think piracy has no good reasons or motivations behind it? If you think the only reason piracy is rampant is because people "don't want to pay," you gotta admit you've been disconnected from the world for a very long time.

I have done and finished explaining my point. Piracy is gray, but the benefits far outweigh the lack thereof. It has even brought you some of the DRM cracks that GOG employs from developers who no longer have the original source code. Through abandonware it has brought GOG a source of games to re-release in case a publisher comes up and tells GOG to sell this game which they do not have a copy for. To paint piracy as all black is foolish, indeed. But then I'll echo LootHunter on this: you'll never understand.

Now that I got rid of the other thing that was bothering me, I could expand on some points. As a user of that site, if you belong to a country that's not the USA, most of the offers will fail. As someone who is not in the US, most of the offers are either unavailable or I have none. I used to thrive on video offers before they became less prevalent. It's called dissolving, and bankruptcy. Simple as that. Not every rights to an IP appeal to more than the owners who created it.

Now I have another thing for Warehall to look at, lest he shows a differing view for this case, and that's a real life example. The Touhou Project is a very prolific series of bullet hell games that's enjoying widespread popularity worldwide, but with the exception of only ONE game, it's not sold anywhere outside the Japan. Selling it might even be in Japan's yearly Comiket event, but certainly not something common if you're looking for a legal copy.

The creator of the games, ZUN, says he doesn't mind that his games get pirated. He is an indie developer who self-publishes his titles. As such, since you are willing to equate arbitrary legal laws 1:1 to morals, going so far as even games that are not on sale, what do you think of this scenario?

You download it, numpty. ;p

Truth be told, the only rights we really have in this world are the ones we are capable of enforcing / defending. It sux, but that's the defacto reality thanks to a legal system that is not at all blind to the color of money.

On the flip side, there are considerable benefits to be had from publishing to the WWW that in most cases will more than offset the downside. But some people just have to have their pound of flesh. o.O

You just don't know what you are talking about at all. A company goes bankrupt, then their creditors inherit the rights. The rights to a game never dissolve like you claim. The fact so many seem to make excuses or pretend they know anything about the law besides the jack shit they really do, speaks volumes.

We clearly aren't talking about games where the rightful owner says it's okay to make copies since they have no plans to release them again. I can give other examples like Warlords 2 Deluxe which the rights holder declared them public domain. Or Hotline Miami where they publicly declared they didn't have an issue with Australian's pirating the game since it was banned there. In all such cases, the rights holder gave permission. See how that works?

Now the fact you think you have some right to copy and take any game you desire is what makes you a thieving asshole. And it seems that you wish to ignore the fact that you have ZERO right to take things for free. That many of these companies went bankrupt because not enough people bought their games and now that they are bankrupt, you think that its right to just take from them? Pick their bones like a vulture? When if the pirates of the time had paid for the games, those companies might still be in business.

I'll say it again since you can't seem to grasp the concept...
There are plenty of free and very inexpensive games out there. Play them, don't pirate. Pirating makes you a jerk. These are games new and old. There are hundreds/thousands. Playing time for a lifetime.

But no, immoral thieving assholes like yourself HAVE TO have the pirated games. You make excuses like, but they are bankrupt, so its not hurting anybody. That guy down the street never seems to use his bike on the front porch. How about I take it and put it to better use. Some guys says it's abandonware. "Oh my God, look, Morrowind is abandoned! Mine Mine Mine!"

The fact is you have ZERO right to those games. It doesn't matter if they are not currently being sold anymore. How about showing respect to the people putting in the hard work to make the games that you claim to love. How about rewarding and honoring one of the hundreds of authors who are legally offering their games up for free or on sale?

No instead, losers like you want to show your true colors, what cheapskates you are and make up excuses to download illegally obtained games for free...

And I'll echo this...you and LootHunter don't realize what moral jerks you are by pirating...neither of you understand. Fuck off thieves!