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General discussionThe #Gamergate news thread(8424 posts) (8424 posts) 
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 07, 2016
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Vainamoinen: The double standard at work here has zero to do with "SJWs". And I have zero interest talking about the fascist fictional enemy concept and the many many conspiracy theories attached to it. Particularly not if you still don't have a clue why you don't get to engage in definition and identification of the dehumanizing concept at the same time. We're talking about the Hugo Awards and about kukuruyo's nomination. If you can't stick to the topic without going SJW this SJW that, we have no common basis for debate.
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RWarehall: And how is that different then you claiming all of this is a Gamergate conspiracy? Funny the double-standards.

Have you ever had any part in literary fandom? There was about a decade where I regularly attended most of my local Sci-Fi conventions. Let me tell you this, Gamergate and the Hugo awards are two different animals. Video games have never been a significant part of this community. There may, on occasion, be small computer rooms at some of these conventions, but they tend to be more ghost towns as compared to other parts of the conventions. Because the people involved in these events, read books in their free time, and don't have time to be involved with video games.

So this whole fallacious claim that Gamergate is what's behind the popularity of Sad Puppies; that there are this many people who will shell out $30 (or whatever it was) just to stuff a ballot box for the sake of prejudice is ludicrous to the extreme.

As to Manga and fan art. Unlike video games, that was always very popular. You might think the art is crude by Rembrandt standards, but I've seen Manga drawings and arguably less-talented paintings of dragons sell as well as anything else at the Art Shows. So who are you to say Kukuruyo's art doesn't belong? Are you getting this idea from your echo chambers? And while I personally may agree with you and prefer more "real art" to Manga or Comics style art, in a democratic process, my taste does not trump the taste of others. Seems your version of democracy is free voting for any candidates you personally approve of and anyone else should be removed from the ballots. Sounds Fascist to me.

Back on the topic of Sad Puppies, but seems to me this is a counter-reaction to a movement which started in the last few decades. I'm not sure characterizing it as the same SJWs of video gaming is entirely accurate, I say "PC Culture" is a better term as it applies to films and books. I remember an SNL skit which typified the issue. This was after movies like Good Will Hunting, A Beautiful Mind, Born on the Fourth of July, Forrest Gump were the Oscar darlings. The skit was about the Oscars. One fictional movie was about a paraplegic overcoming diversity. Another mentally retarded, etc. and one nominee was an actor who played Hamlet. And the winner is...a 4-way tie, everyone except the Hamlet guy!

The point is this "PC Culture" movement had taken over Oscar nominations and the Sad Puppies apparently perceive the same thing taking over the Hugos. That the stories nominated have to involve "politically correct" concepts, be written by "politically correct" "diverse" people in order to be nominated. That's all it is. So they decided to create a slate of candidates who may have been overlooked because their stories don't necessarily promote "PC" agendas. The fact people like Vain what to turn them into racists or sexists for fighting back against "PC Culture" just shows how domineering and dictatorial these "PC Warriors" have become.

As to who is right/wrong with the Hugos, I don't have the foggiest. I haven't read any of those books, been spending my time playing video games, but its not hard to take a quick look at the nomination lists and winners and think that its fairly likely "PC Culture" has had a hand in it the same same way certain themes in movies earn an Oscar nomination...

As to Kukuruyo and the pedophile charge. Did anyone in this thread read where this stemmed? He did fan art of Ms. Marvel. The knock against him is that the source material (i.e. Issue 1 had Ms. Marvel as 16). That doesn't mean Ms. Marvel has always been portrayed as 16. Carol Danvers isn't 16 in the Supergirl TV show and certainly isn't 16 in all appearances in comic books. It's pretty clear to me Kukuruyo isn't attempting to portray the 16-year old Ms. Marvel either. Basically he is getting shafted by puritan SJW idiots, the type like Vain who like to use double-standards to their benefit and cherry pick offenses of their enemies, even when these offenses are greatly contrived such as Kukuruyo's.

The type of people where if you can't argue against what someone says, let's character assassinate them instead. For example, Milo's a Republican or Milo's a Gamergate supporter so we can ignore that article... Um, huh? Really? Shoot the messenger and ignore the message? Kukuruyo does fan art; Kukuruyo is on the Sad Puppies list; So ignore his art and don't vote for him. Sorry Vain, there are fans of Manga and fan art. The Hugos are a democratic voting process. He is as deserving as any other nominee and no authoritarian jackasses have any right to say otherwise, especially when Manga and Fan art are particularly popular at Sci-Fi conventions. This isn't the Smithsonian...

I can only hope the actual voters will vote for the best art or books and put their petty politics aside. To vote against someone just for being fan art or pro Gamergate or male is just as bad as voting against books for taking a pro-diversity stance. Let the quality dictate the truth. But alas, we have Vain and other "PC Culture" advocates already pushing their politics through the bullying and harassment of a nominee such as Kukuruyo.
Heck, even if it was an actual underage character it should not be a big deal, it should not be illegal and should not be held as child porn unless it was traced from actual child porn. Take for example this artist called BornToDie, all of that artist's work is lolicon, all of it is depictions of characters that are either underage or depicted as underage. And it is not wrong, because it is not real, and there is a thick line separating reality from fantasy, but SJWs don't see that line, they mix reality and fantasy, and I use the term SJWs because it is simpler to use.
Posted May 07, 2016
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Excuse the lack of reply to Shadowstalker. I have no idea what he's talking about and lost his train of thought at about word five.

Of course the "pedophile charge" against kukuruyo is ridiculous. As ridiculous as the pedophile charges against Alison Rapp and many, many others. Of course, when people complained to kukuroyo that he'd drawn an underage nude, he was all like "it was commissioned by Sarah Nyberg!"

Personally, if I had to chose between angry people in my comments demanding to take my art down and actual nazis ("deutschefolkhero") suggesting to "gut the shitdick liberal" and inform Milo Yiannopoulos of the outrage here, I'd definitely rather have those critics than those supporters.

kukuruyo is just a tiresome, irrelevant person. He can do his boring gamergate cartoons no one has ever laughed about until the apocalypse for all I care. He willingly participates in the destruction of the Hugo awards though, and that makes him an asshole.


The SJW concept is convoluted and meaningless. And, yes, in my opinion, fascist in the extreme. Especially when talking about manga and the Japanese culture, it has become clear enough who's all for freedom of artistic expression and who struggles with the idea. There really are a whole lot of "SJW" to strike off the SJW list if campaigning against manga is a requirement to paint that target on someone's back. That's when, as previously mentioned, the "pedophile" charge comes into play, when "SJWs" just refuse to exhibit the necessary puritan trait.

You won't find many friends of manga in anti-buckaroo territory, let me tell you this much.


As to the "PC culture" that "has taken over the oscars", well, if you ever played "find the black nominee", that isn't a statement easily repeated.
http://www.geek.com/news/experience-dicaprios-futile-oscar-hunt-in-leos-red-carpet-rampage-1647543/
And it really doesn't fit the Hugos as well. This was one of the traps Vox Day stepped in when he put Chuck Tingle on his slate of works that he hoped would disrupt/destroy the Hugos. In this case, he was sorely mistaken.

Now I'm not saying that Space Raptor Butt Invasion should get a Hugo. But it's plenty politically incorrect to have the guy on the voting slate. And if he wins, Zoe Quinn will accept the award for him. So, what now, those are the puritan politically correct SJW we're talking about now?

Again, that glove just doesn't fit.
Post edited May 07, 2016 by Vainamoinen
Posted May 08, 2016
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Vainamoinen: Excuse the lack of reply to Shadowstalker. I have no idea what he's talking about and lost his train of thought at about word five.

Of course the "pedophile charge" against kukuruyo is ridiculous. As ridiculous as the pedophile charges against Alison Rapp and many, many others. Of course, when people complained to kukuroyo that he'd drawn an underage nude, he was all like "it was commissioned by Sarah Nyberg!"

Personally, if I had to chose between angry people in my comments demanding to take my art down and actual nazis ("deutschefolkhero") suggesting to "gut the shitdick liberal" and inform Milo Yiannopoulos of the outrage here, I'd definitely rather have those critics than those supporters.

kukuruyo is just a tiresome, irrelevant person. He can do his boring gamergate cartoons no one has ever laughed about until the apocalypse for all I care. He willingly participates in the destruction of the Hugo awards though, and that makes him an asshole.

The SJW concept is convoluted and meaningless. And, yes, in my opinion, fascist in the extreme. Especially when talking about manga and the Japanese culture, it has become clear enough who's all for freedom of artistic expression and who struggles with the idea. There really are a whole lot of "SJW" to strike off the SJW list if campaigning against manga is a requirement to paint that target on someone's back. That's when, as previously mentioned, the "pedophile" charge comes into play, when "SJWs" just refuse to exhibit the necessary puritan trait.

You won't find many friends of manga in anti-buckaroo territory, let me tell you this much.

As to the "PC culture" that "has taken over the oscars", well, if you ever played "find the black nominee", that isn't a statement easily repeated.

http://www.geek.com/news/experience-dicaprios-futile-oscar-hunt-in-leos-red-carpet-rampage-1647543/
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Vainamoinen: And it really doesn't fit the Hugos as well. This was one of the traps Vox Day stepped in when he put Chuck Tingle on his slate of works that he hoped would disrupt/destroy the Hugos. In this case, he was sorely mistaken.

Now I'm not saying that Space Raptor Butt Invasion should get a Hugo. But it's plenty politically incorrect to have the guy on the voting slate. And if he wins, Zoe Quinn will accept the award for him. So, what now, those are the puritan politically correct SJW we're talking about now?

Again, that glove just doesn't fit.
Don't you see why SJWs are hated? They act as moral gatekeepers, if they like the opinions of someone it does not matter if the work is bad or even contradicts their "principles", but if they don't like the opinions of someone the work is shit for them even if it si a classic. For an SJW Starship Troopers is a book that should be burned, but if the author of a similar book is "queer" then the book gets praise. Your mental gymnastics against Sad Puppies actually reinforce our argument.
Posted May 08, 2016
Ironically the same thing with the "Politically Correct" Oscars where certain ideologies in movies are promoted, yet when it comes to black actors, they rarely are nominated, let alone win. Same with this current anti-videogame movement stemming from the West Coast. Almost every one of them is white and come from money, but they aren't afraid to use race to attack their enemies when convenient while calling certain races/cultures all sexist. Seems these trust fund babies were given so much privilege in their youth that when they hit the real world and aren't granted instant praise and promotion, they think its a result of sexism and not the fact they haven't earned their chops yet.

That's pretty much the story of Zoe Quinn. She puts her 5 minute Twine game on Greenlight. It gets panned. She cries sexism and her buddies in journalism put out a story that its from sexism "because the game is so great". Enter the Polaris Game Jam sponsored by Mountain Dew. Zoe Quinn cries they won't let her be seen with a bottle of a competing beverage. Then she cries because they throw her a softball question asking whether her team is at a disadvantage with a woman on the team. She throws a tantrum and quits while convincing others to quit with her. And here comes her journalist white knights to the rescue. Article by Jared Rosen (who she stays the night with after the failed game jam) defending her. Then article by Nathan Grayson days before both claim their relationship starts in Vegas that weekend.

It really doesn't matter if Jared slept with her that night and it really doesn't matter if the sexual relationship with Nathan "conveniently" started the weekend after his article or not. Either way she used her friends in journalism to support her narrative. A friend (Jared) who she at the least sleeps over on his couch and a friend (Nathan) who beta tested her game (and is in the credits) and previously featured her game at the top of the list of 50 Greenlit games in an article he wrote allegedly before they were actually dating.
Post edited May 08, 2016 by RWarehall
Posted May 08, 2016
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LeonardoCornejo: Don't you see why SJWs are hated? They act as moral gatekeepers, if they like the opinions of someone it does not matter if the work is bad or even contradicts their "principles", but if they don't like the opinions of someone the work is shit for them even if it si a classic. For an SJW Starship Troopers is a book that should be burned, but if the author of a similar book is "queer" then the book gets praise. Your mental gymnastics against Sad Puppies actually reinforce our argument.
on top of that they just don't want an issue to be fixed, they want to be the ones to "fix" it.
Case in point....
http://heatst.com/culture-wars/feminists-force-frats-to-apologize-for-speaking-out-against-sexual-violence/

Haha....

SJW's blasted for "Culture Appropriation" (youtube)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1AxsvdErrY&feature=youtu.be
Post edited May 08, 2016 by Rusty_Gunn
Posted May 08, 2016
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LeonardoCornejo: For an SJW Starship Troopers is a book that should be burned
Starship Troopers received the Hugo Award in 1960. In addition to the four Hugo Awards Robert Heinlein received during his lifetime, he received three "Retro Hugos" well afterwards. Good luck finding your "SJWs" there.

It's been about 25 years since I read my mother's possibly complete library of Heinlein works, but I don't remember that I even once wanted to "burn" any of those books (which has an extremely negative connotation over here anyway, I guess you're aware). Surely that means I'm not an "SJW"?

If you're looking for similarly militarist science fiction, there's no shortage of it, especially not among Hugo Award nominees. I'd suggest an author who wasn't a winner though, the late David Feintuch and his Nick Seafort saga.


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RWarehall: Ironically the same thing with the "Politically Correct" Oscars where certain ideologies in movies are promoted, yet when it comes to black actors, they rarely are nominated, let alone win.
I see. The "SJW" infiltration of the academy is complete, that's why they don't act according to supposed "SJW" morals, because these morals were fake to begin with. Okay, I think we've come a good deal further in our evaluation of this enemy concept's mechanics and most of all its universal attributability these months of your absence.

Uhm, maybe, just maybe, actors of color don't much get to act in Hollywood movies, and just maybe the AMPAS, being composed of old white men, has a little problem with recognizing those few actors' accomplishments... ?


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RWarehall: anti-videogame movement
You mean gamergate? If you're looking for "movements" in game culture, there isn't any other.

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RWarehall: That's pretty much the story of Zoe Quinn.
When Quinn put her free 40 to 60 minute game on Greenlight so it could be retrieved for free from Steam, she received so much harassment that she retracted the survey. She later put it on again. Today, the game gets "reviewed" by users like "Trump deportation force". In essence, they're review bombing a free game for no other reason than that it's from Zoe Quinn.

As someone who heralds Digital Homicide's giveaways twice on his 13 tweet total twitter account, surely that must irk you greatly?


I somewhat enjoy the great effort that went into fictionalising the Game Jam story here, and it surely must have been hard to extract that kind of conspiracy theory from the accounts out there, because the accounts tell a completely different story. Let's hope you didn't just take this 'version' from kiwifarms.

When you look up actual journalistic corruption in video games, one of the first stories you'll find has something to do with Doritos and Mountain Dew. Justly, in my opinion. It's basically all deepfreeze has to go on, really. By all first hand accounts, the story of the Game Jam is one in which the corruption that gamergate supposedly is all against is shoved into the industry by Pepsicorp, then resented and eventually strongly rejected by developers, youtubers and journalists, spearheaded by Zoe Quinn.

You could just be thankful. For a lot of things, including e.g. Quinn's appeal to the UN, a story which may have experienced even greater, more vile and more desperate falsification.
Post edited May 08, 2016 by Vainamoinen
Posted May 08, 2016
Yeah Quinn could've spouted much worse stuff at the UN; and has displayed much propensity to do it. But on account that she didn't to not shed light on her own harassment of many people, she left many things out. Everyone should be grateful. And congrats to you for supporting a harasser like her.
Posted May 08, 2016
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Shadowstalker16: And congrats to you for supporting a harasser like her.
The "proof" I've seen of that peaks with eye cancer inducing "wizardchan" Paint conspiracy charts (or recently jpgs of single words presented as evidence of doxing). A lot of stuff on the lower end of the "evidence" spectrum is blatant victim blaming.

Up to now, taking everything into account, I didn't even need to cut any chunks off the large body of slack I'd cut her for the harassment she received from a movement that formed around ca. twelve words of positive coverage of her by then one and a half year old, free game.

But congrats for channeling and therewith supporting actual harassers like Ralph, Breitbart et al. who will always supply you with easily swallowed conspiracy theories in that respect. Their coverage of e.g. the Social Autopsy incident – the concept of which was mostly criticised by the harassing sources in the very same way Quinn did – was exemplary in that respect.
Post edited May 08, 2016 by Vainamoinen
Posted May 08, 2016
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Shadowstalker16: And congrats to you for supporting a harasser like her.
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Vainamoinen: The "proof" I've seen of that peaks with eye cancer inducing "wizardchan" Paint conspiracy charts (or recently jpgs of single words presented as evidence of doxing. A lot of stuff on the lower end of the "evidence" spectrum is quite exemplary of victim blaming.

But congrats for channeling and therewith supporting actual harassers like Ralph, Breitbart et al. who will always supply you with easily swallowed conspiracy theories in that respect.
Sure brah, whatever helps you sleep at night.
Posted May 08, 2016
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Shadowstalker16: Sure brah, whatever helps you sleep at night.
The soft feathers of love, combined with the sturdy stability of truth, doth fill a pillow nicely.
Post edited May 08, 2016 by Vainamoinen
Posted May 08, 2016
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Shadowstalker16: Sure brah, whatever helps you sleep at night.
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Vainamoinen: The soft feathers of love, combined with the sturdy stability of truth, doth fill a pillow nicely.
The problem with pillows is that you can't be sure for certain what's inside them.
Posted May 08, 2016
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Vainamoinen: snip
... Quinn ... received so much harassment ... review bombing a free game for no other reason than that it's from Zoe Quinn.
snip
You could just be thankful. For ... Quinn's appeal to the UN, ...
Firstly, I think we started talking about cultural domination of media already. I can go back to those posts. Back then you did not seem interested in broadening the discussion from the gaming context, despite my agreeing with you what is more important.

Secondly, your source bias is shown in your GameJam "narratives" because "the other side" did get some coverage and I think some even 1st person. I mean coverage somewhat critical of Zoe's motives, or contextualizing through reality TV "show must go on" perspectives the actions done by the story's "villains". It's not just your bias of course, the PR suits involved surrendered the narrative from the start - unlike "the other side" the corps involved are not in it for ideological reasons, so their engagement in this kind of "culture war" is mostly non existent. They cut their losses and went on making $$ elsewhere I'm sure.


Then, to your more central points since you keep coming back to harassment and to an almost idolization of the lady in question.

I think one can both believe Zoe was / is abusive AND "was / is abused. Half martyr AND half sadist - if you prefer more colorful language. This is not a black and white world we live in...

Zoe's harrasment does not prove her wrong in other topics.
Zoe's being harassed does not prove her right in other topics.

If only we could objectively evaluate all the facts involved in the distinct but related topics you know?

But of course, the very immediate reaction to trying to find the truth of facts when the whole thing blew up was: nothing to see here (= mass deletion of discussions), followed by ridicule (ethics in journalism - ha ha ha ha), followed very rapidly by mudslinging (= "you still looking? then you are impure" - the reason for impurity being quite varied: sometimes privacy abuse / no public interest, sometimes attribution of intent such as misogyny / victim blaming / wrongthink).

All of which (like in the GameJam topic) allows you to now point out to the volume of coverage of one side versus the other as evidence for being right! Neat trick that - no matter how it came about, nor how tautological it is. Who watches the Watchmen? is a difficult question to answer - should not matter if you like whomever happens to hold the regins of power at the time.

Of course, that's the distinction between someone like me, that will advocate for less central power in all sorts of contexts, and folks like you.

Until you grok that distinction - that the methods and how they differ were always our point (certainly mine), you will continue to non-sequitur into the consequences of the actions being morally wrong in all these cases, AND letting your own personal judgement of which victims lack privilege and therefore deserve more sympathy blind you somewhat.


Now for the broader ideological points.

Call me naive or idealist, but to me the above mentioned prevention of discussion, or framing of same, was way more totalitarian than the kind of distributed harassment that you constantly call fascist, whether related to GG or SP or even Vox Day.

Totalitarianism can and does start and gets reinforced from mob like systems, BUT the centralized power is absolutely necessary to go the full hog (and we don't want that I assume - though sometimes I do wonder at ho much of the holy crusader is sincere versus just signaling). We are not really near that IMO, rather we had increased polarization and radicalization of insurgencies and counter-insurgencies online (all fueled by economic uncertainties), which simultaneously compete for actual centers of power - be that control over media channels, or influencing of actual political representatives.

You got the keep the eye on the ball basically - by focusing so much on the WWW front lines, you let your sympathy blind you to who is holding the actual power in the broad cultural contexts. Of course, I'm sure you can reply to this with a very one sided, cherry picked list of many of your "enemies" holding some power in real life - while completely ignoring any ethical obligation (to the truth obviously) to be impartial and objective and likewise at least look for such examples on your own side. Or as I like to say it, you can pull a Sarkeesian. ;)

Now, I don't actually think most folks involved have organized to that institutional level. In the anti-progressive side certainly (apart from the very extreme and less representative fringes, which is perhaps why you only see those). The organization / emergence of coordinated order is farther along in the progressive / SJW / Politically-correct / identity politics "side" though: The power involved in being able to delete discussion online, or in being able to publish news in mass media is qualitatively different from twitter bullying, from review bombing, from slate voting.

Are you really that blinded that you don't see who the obvious underdog side is? Basically it's strangely cognitively dissonant that you can on one side be aware of all the progress in the last 25 to 30 years - in all sorts of societal areas of identity politics say. And yet still think you are the "unprivileged few" carrying the torch of light to the masses.


You're the Man Vaina. It's sad you don't see it. In the current lingo, you're not aware how privileged you are due to your ideological alignement. You're not the Rebel Alliance anymore, you're fast on your way to being The Empire.
Posted May 08, 2016
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Brasas: ...
I am on the same page as you, Brasas. Things have gone way past GG and Sad Puppies or harassment this, harassment that:

http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/04/19/an-introduction-smart-power-the-human-rights-industrial-complex/
Post edited May 08, 2016 by MaGo72
Posted May 08, 2016
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Brasas: Secondly, your source bias is shown in your GameJam "narratives" because "the other side" did get some coverage and I think some even 1st person.
Thinking is not knowing.

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Brasas: I think one can both believe Zoe was / is abusive AND "was / is abused.
Stanford prison experiment, anyone? You can see the basic problem exemplified in Candace Owen's behaviour quite recently. Yes, the abused naturally strike back if they can. I do think that Quinn rose above it though. Her proposals to combat online harassment are, in a nutshell, precluding revenge.

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Brasas: Zoe's harrasment does not prove her wrong in other topics.
Zoe's being harassed does not prove her right in other topics.
And Zoe's harassment doesn't even "prove her right" on the topic of harassment.
I don't have a clue what you're trying to demonstrate here.

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Brasas: nothing to see here (= mass deletion of discussions)
The discussions deleted on 4chan, which continues to be one of the world's least moderated forums ever, centered on organizing Quinn's harassment. They formed e.g. under reposts of TotalBiscuit's summary judgement blog post. The only explanation for the routinely narcoleptic 4chan mods to take action in this particular case that sounds remotely logical is that 4chan officials made themselves legally vulnerable and responsible for that harassment if they had let it go on that way.

You're pointing very hard here, at something or someone I guess, but I don't see how that's helping in establishing "the real power" unless you think that "the real power" generally lies with voluntary 4chan moderators.

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Brasas: followed by ridicule (ethics in journalism - ha ha ha ha)
The smoke screen came after the harassment was well underway. Years afterwards, actually. I'm not sure why I should even reiterate, because you're well aware that in August 2014, "ethical concerns in journalism" centered on the ideas that

(a) said 12 words of positive coverage of a one and a half year old free game somehow pointed at a systemic problem in games journalism (which must have meant: women game developers sleeping around to receive attention) and

(b) game journalists reporting on the harassment campaign were deemed corrupt, insulting and part of the conspiracy, while those who were found to vocally refrain from reporting on the harassment campaign were deemed corrupt and part of the conspiracy.

Actual ethical concerns in the game industry? Muuuuch better covered elsewhere.

http://leighalexander.net/list-of-ethical-concerns-in-video-games-partial
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Brasas: followed very rapidly by mudslinging (= "you still looking? then you are impure")
Actually, to get riled up by the stalker blog post even for a minute, let alone two years, is ridiculous to the extreme. Of course, gamergate's inaugurating slutshaming event is just one of the many social justice outrages that I find condemnable.

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Brasas: All of which (like in the GameJam topic) allows you to now point out to the volume of coverage of one side versus the other as evidence for being right!
It goes further than that. The basis for the harassment campaign was and still is the stalker's blog post. I.e. the weakest, most biased, least credible evidence there could ever be. And still the things in that blog post got wildly exaggerated to form a proper basis for the harassment campaign.

We have different perspectives on the Game Jam from people who were there. Not all are completely favorable of Quinn, definitely not. But to the last one I've read, it's still a "Fuck Pepsicorp" story 100%. The ongoing search for other takeaways reeks of, while we're at the Star Wars references, a cheap Jedi mind trick.

"Look away. This is not the corruption you're looking for".

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Brasas: Call me naive or idealist, but to me the above mentioned prevention of discussion
As if a discussion was or could have been prevented by having a few harassment inducing threads removed on 4chan. As if Zoe Quinn constituted a "centralized power". Or were you talking about "the general SJW" again? You're amalgamating a whole lot of things here and make less sense with every line.

There's no comparison to the joyful destruction of a multi million dollar sci-fi award to be drawn here, Brasas. And it looks strange when you attempt it. Personally, I hope they're suing the Voxman for millions eventually.

who is holding the actual power in the broad cultural contexts.
Broad broader broadest. Last time we got to this point, you were at least understanding that you're going off topic, and I offered to take a perspective that included all of narrative media.

Who is holding the actual power in the RELEVANT cultural context here?

For the Oscars, it's a few old white men with a whole lot of money.
For the Hugos, it has been the fans/consumers for sixty years until the puppies' slate voting began.
For video games, it's one AAA publisher and several AAA developers.
In video game journalism, it's advertisers i.e. mostly those AAA developers again.

All of it, definitely problematic! Of course, none of it fits into the fascist enemy concept of the "SJW".

You're not the Rebel Alliance anymore, you're fast on your way to being The Empire.
I don't think you get to decide what "I am".

In trying to wade through your convolution, I'm trying to find out what side you've put me on. Naturally, from the course of the discussion, I'm only finding Zoe Quinn's. Which may be true or not. I do align with her views on online harassment, very closely up to now.

Now Quinn is an indie indie game developer with maybe a sway in the indie indie scene and in indie indie self congratulatory award ceremonies (most of the AAA award ceremonies are self congratulatory as well), but that's the full extent of it. And Quinn has mainly expressed one wish this last year, and that concerns ending online harassment e.g. by humanizing harassers.

Certainly, that's a side I can see myself on!

I also assure you, these efforts don't get treated as "Empire" by opinion makers like Breitbart et al., they're "Rebel Alliance" one hundred percent. So much that these opinion makers have to lie and distort to make things look differently than they are.
Post edited May 08, 2016 by Vainamoinen
Posted May 08, 2016
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Brasas: nothing to see here (= mass deletion of discussions)
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Vainamoinen: The discussions deleted on 4chan, which continues to be one of the world's least moderated forums ever, centered on organizing Quinn's harassment. They formed e.g. under reposts of TotalBiscuit's summary judgement blog post. The only explanation for the routinely narcoleptic 4chan mods to take action in this particular case that sounds remotely logical is that 4chan officials made themselves legally vulnerable and responsible for that harassment if they had let it go on that way.
Just no. Everything about your post is so wrong, I don't know where to start.

1. I'm pretty sure Brasas meant the deletion of all gamergate discussion in article comments/News forums, neogaf, Escapists forums,Somehting Awful etc.

2. 4chan threads only started getting deleted months after the first gamergate discussion started, 4chan mods also started banning people for using common slang (for 4chan standards) like "nigger". Curiously moot sold the site shortly after, some people think it was to give 4chan a "cleaner" image to make the deal easier.

3. I don't know what TB has anything to do with this, people migrated to other imageboards.

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Vainamoinen: All of it, definitely problematic! Of course, none of it fits into the fascist enemy concept of the "SJW".
SJWs are rich white people, that's what we`ve been saying the entire time.
Post edited May 08, 2016 by WBGhiro
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