Vainamoinen: Not for Beamdog, apparently. :|

But the call isn't to make Vox Day shut up. The call is to not grant him the immense privilege and power of speaking for a supposed consumer army united against what is, in essence, a nazist enemy concept.

Vainamoinen: Not for Beamdog, apparently. :|

But the call isn't to make Vox Day shut up. The call is to not grant him the immense privilege and power of speaking for a supposed consumer army united against what is, in essence, a nazist enemy concept.

LeonardoCornejo: Last night I got a hit of nostalgia and decided to play Sim City 2000, and as I start my city I get a newspaper with something quite interesting...

[See attached picture]

I assume by this point you already saw the picture, if you didn't, do it now because otherwise you won't get my point.

The thing is, I have been pointing for a while that even with the censorship in video games being rather high during the 80s and 90s, in particular in the console market, we have reached a historical low in the industry regarding free speech and thought policing. Political correctness infected the industry and it is going to harm it a lot, well, it already did.

We have other issues, many of which also resonate with the ethical concerns of GG, such as abusive DRM (Come on! Much likely you like GOG's DRM free stance), microtransactions in paid games, mostly in AAA titles, crappy DLC sold at expensive prices when it should have no cost, less expansions and more "episodic" games, and other unethical practices which harm the industry, but SJWs (I lack a better term for that collective of individuals and ideologies such as Feminism, queer theory, those who complain about cultural appropriation, and other postmodern and cultural marxists madness), have created a threat that on its own is as big as all those previously mentioned threats combined by effectively preventing content creators from doing what they want.

Just imagine if a game now would put a joke like that on the screenshot provided. It would be attacked by ideologues (Or should I say idiots?) such as Brianna Wu, Anita Sarkessian, John Mongo McIntosh, Zoe Quinn, Tim "I actually made mildly sexist games" Schafer, Phill "I sold you a game that is not that great as if it was the holy grail" Fish, Lacy "MTV is getting dumber" Green, and that other MTV woman who said political correctness increased freedom of speech because it "added new words" by following the example of 1984's newspeak.

And you know what? I even managed to measure, based on when I began to hear claims of sexism in video games more often and other stupid PC nonsense when it all began, it was in 2012, no coincidence it was when Anita Sarkeesian began to target video games, it was a team effort of these ideologues and paragons of censorship to take control of one of the few media industries they could not get under their stranglehold. Sarkeesian was the forerunner of their taint, the pioneer of third wave feminism, and maybe feminism in general, as well as all those other social justice related ideologies, in gaming. She was their vanguard, and since gamers did little to stop them and only the most reactionary and angry responded, often in the worst way possible, she led SJWs to victory in the first battles.

But it gets uglier, what is seen clearly as satire and a joke in that screenshot, basically telling the player that PC should never and would never get that absurd has already happened. And you see it in some forms of feminist newspeak such as "herstory" and "womyn", they warned us, they thought it would not happen but still left a cautionary tale, and still everyone was taken by surprise by this wave of nonsensical and insane ideologies that do more harm than good.

LeonardoCornejo: I assume by this point you already saw the picture, if you didn't, do it now because otherwise you won't get my point.

LeonardoCornejo: And you know what? I even managed to measure, based on when I began to hear claims of sexism in video games more often and other stupid PC nonsense when it all began, it was in 2012, no coincidence it was when Anita Sarkeesian began to target video games, it was a team effort of these ideologues and paragons of censorship to take control of one of the few media industries they could not get under their stranglehold. Sarkeesian was the forerunner of their taint, the pioneer of third wave feminism, and maybe feminism in general, as well as all those other social justice related ideologies, in gaming. She was their vanguard, and since gamers did little to stop them and only the most reactionary and angry responded, often in the worst way possible, she led SJWs to victory in the first battles.

Vainamoinen: Not for Beamdog, apparently. :|

But the call isn't to make Vox Day shut up. The call is to not grant him the immense privilege and power of speaking for a supposed consumer army united against what is, in essence, a nazist enemy concept.

LeonardoCornejo: Last night I got a hit of nostalgia and decided to play Sim City 2000, and as I start my city I get a newspaper with something quite interesting...

[See attached picture]

I assume by this point you already saw the picture, if you didn't, do it now because otherwise you won't get my point.

The thing is, I have been pointing for a while that even with the censorship in video games being rather high during the 80s and 90s, in particular in the console market, we have reached a historical low in the industry regarding free speech and thought policing. Political correctness infected the industry and it is going to harm it a lot, well, it already did.

We have other issues, many of which also resonate with the ethical concerns of GG, such as abusive DRM (Come on! Much likely you like GOG's DRM free stance), microtransactions in paid games, mostly in AAA titles, crappy DLC sold at expensive prices when it should have no cost, less expansions and more "episodic" games, and other unethical practices which harm the industry, but SJWs (I lack a better term for that collective of individuals and ideologies such as Feminism, queer theory, those who complain about cultural appropriation, and other postmodern and cultural marxists madness), have created a threat that on its own is as big as all those previously mentioned threats combined by effectively preventing content creators from doing what they want.

Just imagine if a game now would put a joke like that on the screenshot provided. It would be attacked by ideologues (Or should I say idiots?) such as Brianna Wu, Anita Sarkessian, John Mongo McIntosh, Zoe Quinn, Tim "I actually made mildly sexist games" Schafer, Phill "I sold you a game that is not that great as if it was the holy grail" Fish, Lacy "MTV is getting dumber" Green, and that other MTV woman who said political correctness increased freedom of speech because it "added new words" by following the example of 1984's newspeak.

And you know what? I even managed to measure, based on when I began to hear claims of sexism in video games more often and other stupid PC nonsense when it all began, it was in 2012, no coincidence it was when Anita Sarkeesian began to target video games, it was a team effort of these ideologues and paragons of censorship to take control of one of the few media industries they could not get under their stranglehold. Sarkeesian was the forerunner of their taint, the pioneer of third wave feminism, and maybe feminism in general, as well as all those other social justice related ideologies, in gaming. She was their vanguard, and since gamers did little to stop them and only the most reactionary and angry responded, often in the worst way possible, she led SJWs to victory in the first battles.

But it gets uglier, what is seen clearly as satire and a joke in that screenshot, basically telling the player that PC should never and would never get that absurd has already happened. And you see it in some forms of feminist newspeak such as "herstory" and "womyn", they warned us, they thought it would not happen but still left a cautionary tale, and still everyone was taken by surprise by this wave of nonsensical and insane ideologies that do more harm than good.

Kurina: snip

In a way, it was essentially a perfect storm. Gamers were already stigmatized by the general public despite the increasing popularity of the medium. Video game websites, those who were the most familiar with the industry and the audience, chose to take up identity politics rather than do actual journalism on the subject. They abandoned their audience and aligned themselves with the mainstream media who has always jumped at the chance to go after video games. Gamers were essentially left without a voice other than social media and this proved to be detrimental to the cause. Moderate gamers were ignored and people chose to focus only one the small angry subset as further proof that the industry is full of awful people.

It is all rather depressing really. You are certainly right that this is one of the lowest points for the medium. I was usually unfazed by previous issues that plagued gaming but even this one is wearing me down. This movement is full of utter nonsense and kafkatrapping making it difficult to challenge.

LeonardoCornejo: SJWs (I lack a better term for that collective of individuals and ideologies such as Feminism, queer theory, those who complain about cultural appropriation, and other postmodern and cultural marxists madness), have created a threat that on its own is as big as all those previously mentioned threats combined by effectively preventing content creators from doing what they want.

Kurina: It is all rather depressing really. You are certainly right that this is one of the lowest points for the medium.

Vainamoinen: snip

Your side? Your decision.

And you've made some decisions in this thread already, in that respect, that I could remind you of.

Vainamoinen: In 2016, the war against "feminism" and the "SJW" has precisely and effectively ousted the most vocal opponent of censorship from Nintendo PR.

In 2016, the war against the "SJW" has led to the blatant mischaracterisation of several of Blizzard's internal design decisions as the result of social outrage. In fact, a single, respectful forum post is supposedly responsible for self-censorship.

You know what? Feminism and queer theory are voices that show us more possibilities in narrative media. Vainamoinen: "Anti SJW" activists were and are the ones that suffer an embolism when a Star Wars movie dares to have a female protagonist, a black protagonist and a Jewish director (instead of, like, discussing the actual faults of TFA, hello ... who does that... ah, Anita Sarkeesian). Vainamoinen: Same apocalypse when Fury Road dared to be an excellent movie.

"Anti SJW" activists were and are the ones to get triggered and protest against simple female game protagonists and a postapocalyptic scenario that dares to put blame for the apocalypse on actual humans. Reliably. Three or four years before the game is out. Seriously, these crapheads have already started writing dishonest protest emails to the funding party, trying to revoke funding by characterising the developer as politically incorrect. Vainamoinen: Your side? Your decision.

And you've made some decisions in this thread already, in that respect, that I could remind you of. This is not about lumping anyone in for anything. It's about rethinking individual past decisions made on the basis of "anti SJW" activism, and about considering future decisions by learning from the past ones.

Vainamoinen: It may be the lowest point for game culture.

An art form the aficinados of which actively reject learning, are outraged when intersectional issues are debated, and feel threatened when other game aficinados talk about some details of "their" games.

It's silly, really. :(

You're drawing Jack Thompson out of the hat as if that wasn't a disbarred lawyer who actually wanted to ban violent video games. There's literally zero grounds for comparison here. You seem to not know what the people you criticise actually stand for. I would guess you e.g. didn't actually listen to Quinn and Sarkeesian at the UN, you just breathed in the snippets that "anti SJW" activists readily interpreted incorrectly for you.

Brasas: The reason anti SJW is as it is is because SJW is not just an enemy concept, but an acurate relfection of an intolerant activism that is not happy being the majority, but wants the minority to be completely powerless: Cakes have to be baked, pronouns must be used, privilege must be acknowledged, guilt must be felt...

Do you want to be given a list of cherry picked abuses related to the activist campaign for social justice and diversity and be asked to publically announce if you are for or against such?

I would rather if neither of us employs such manipulative methodologies. You know, a la Sarkeesian... ;)

Vainamoinen: I'll gladly take your list of cherry picked abuses and will evaluate each and every one of them according to quality, quantity, morality, reach and result. And just like several times in this thread, I may come to the conclusion that the social activism as employed in the cherry picked examples is indeed exaggerated e.g. not backed up by or founded on feminist theory, narratology, sociology, ludology or other intersectional issues and sciences, or otherwise encompass faulty logic, threats, organized boycott and assorted other unaccceptable bullshit.

However, as exemplified by the topics chosen in this thread, the three examples I have started my post with above – for the social outrage against the "SJW" – are hardly cherry picked. They constitute, in my opinion, the core "anti SJW" backlash in game culture this year. If you have examples you find more central, I will be glad to hear them! Mind you, I didn't raise these three topics in this thread initially; others did. If I wanted to lump in, cherry pick and shame, I assure you we would have talked about Narcissa Wright in the meantime!

Actions of the "SJW" – if meant to be a supposedly accurate reflection of exaggerated, uninformed, intolerant, shaming, harassing activism for dubious goals – must at all times encompass the social outrage that is the founding principle of gamergate.

I stand against that activist outrage in whatever topic or on whatever side. That of course also means that I can not approve of you mischaracterizing the Tropes vs. Women video series and Anita Sarkeesian off hand, as it may lead to further harassment like the incredible barrage I've once again witnessed live two days ago. If you want to skillfully criticise what Sarkeesian is doing, and I dare you to, you will literally have to "raise to her level" – the amicable, basically scientific sparring ping pong of proposals and theories, the acceptance of several postulates the social sciences are based on, and most of all, not feeling insulted, enraged or threatened by said proposals, which is just wildly embarrassing for game culture as a whole.

Personally, I'd already be thankful if I ever saw criticism above the most basic and boring "presupposition incorrect" level. Like the hundreds of Tropes vs. Women "rebuttal" videos on youtube – exaggerated, intolerant, uninformed, shaming social outrage at its finest, and some of the most popular of those (Amazing Atheist et al.) are definitely and unashamedly harassing as well.

Shadowstalker16: pulling in Narcissa Wright as some proof is a low blow.