Sorry for misinterpreting. But I've seen many people attack games as if its still the 50s and putting a voice recording of someone saying ''kill'' will make someone a killer.

I'm also all for better written characters. But saying things like only x% of games have a female character option or saying x more games at this year's E3 had female characters seems like what many people in the industry are doing in terms of diversity. As you said, gender is not the only factor, and condemning a game for not having female characters is absurd, because many games have a single protagonist with a personality, and not an entire RPG character creation system.

I feel your point addresses both sides in this argument. Some people from one side there are people who would slam any character they don't like a diversity hire, and then there are others from the other side who always talk big of diversity and representation but claim any woman who shows skin is designed to cater to the sexual interest of male players. One side doesn't take into account that there are non PC inspired genuine ''minority'' characters (I hear Street Fighter has a wide variety of fighters who are different personality wise and mechanically and in race, but some ''pro diversity'' journos still call it racist). Some stereotypes are funny and are worth exploiting, and many have been. Look at the billion evil Russians in history. Anyhow, I say that there should be sexy characters who aren't criticized for being sexy, because again, it is still the decision of the artist to write characters according to their vision, and ''minority'' characters who aren't put in to check boxes. Sexiness does not equal sexism and ''inclusion'' does not equal SJW pandering all the time.

I think that it is the role of education and people around us to help us see through cultural barriers. Because we still shouldn't say what other people can and cannot represent in art, especially when its rated 18 or above like many games. After all, media is not a parent nor a babysitter and at the end of the day prejudicial views people hold are their own, and cannot be excused as media influence when any normally socialized person would think more clearly.

Gender is not a social construct. Gender identity is, but not gender itself. Ie sexual orientation. Both sex and gender are biologically determined. If gender was socially constructed, it would be possible to change someone's sexual orientation through social conditioning, which we know is impossible. There were quite long discussions about gender and sex much earlier in the thread :D

I'm all for trans equality, and so are most people in this thread. But there needs to be proper evidence first. There are people who classify their children as gay or trans even before puberty, or there are people who take the non discouragement to extremes. If there is scientific proof that something is as anyone says, I'll most likely believe it. But someone saying trans women are women without any proof is just insulting to accept. Just think, don't trans people deserve better than to be infantalized with whatever is considered PC at the time? I have no problem in referring to trans people I respect as what they wish. But what they say, what I think, what other people think and what their sex chromosomes say are entirely different and each should have the freedom to say what they want.

I agree with you. It's good that there is a bit of everything. Using an stereotype or making a character sexy is not bad as log as it is done sometimes. The problem appears when this becomes the norm and it is used almost always (and even worse if is done just for making more money). For example, I don't mind that some games use spanish stereotypes when representing a spanish character (bullfighting, paella, flamenco... that sort of stuff) as long as there are also others that represent us well. I couldn't stop laughing at the Resident Evil 4's version of Spain. It was so bad it was great :)

I don't know what was the previous discussion about gender and sex, but gender is, as you can see in that wikipedia article I linked earlier, considered by many scientific studies as a cultural construction (while gender identity is a construction made by oneself). But even if you don't agree with that view and don't want to consider it a social construct, as long at that person identifies himsel/herself with one gender or the other there is no reason not to consider him/her belonging to that gender. There is evidence of biological sex, but gender is a much more problematic issue. People should be respectful with the identity transgenders think they have because it doesn't really affect them and helps transgenders to be happy. Who cares about biology compared with people's happines? :)

OK, I wanted to add something regarding the Fire Emblem Fates case. You might say all the changes in the game had nothing to do with SJWs, you might even say that about other nintendo games such as Fatal Frame's removal of the lingerie alternate outfits. But let me warn you, at least one of the localization team members admitted she was an SJW. We do not know how many localized games have been mutilated by these fuckers.

has anyone ever actually 'admitted' to be a SJW?

edit: and this thread is still going...

edit 2: by the way - this is not to bad: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2015/10/07/why-social-justice-warrior-a-gamergate-insult-is-now-a-dictionary-entry/

I think I also saw a tweet where one of the "translators" admitted not knowing Japanese.

Don'r like to see the thread still going? leave, nobody is forcing you to stay.

And people don't always call hemselves SJWs (Some do though), however, someone whose Twitter description includes things such as "Intersectional feminist" is bound to taint any work in which that person participates with its ideology, and even butcher the original content, that even caused a contro versy with the subtitling of an anime made by Funimation in which teh subtitles insulted GamerGate supporters and at the same time disrespected the context and actual words of the source language.
For realzies? That should be illegal! I mean, as a translator and an aspiring video game story writer I find that to be something deserving of taking offense. I mean, it would be as if a lawyer admitted not knowing the laws of its own country or a general physician not knowing about female anatomy in particular (Which would have feminists with torches and pitchforks ready by the way) or a veterinary who was sent to a zoo to treat a lion not even knowing how to treat a housecat.

I had an addon which filtered it out, with giveaway threads and such other spam threads... it stopped working...
so in this case no one actually 'admitted' to being a SJW?

wheeee!

I found the filter again - http://userscripts-mirror.org/scripts/show/173407

Thanks Grimwerk, putting "gamergate" as a tag to ignore again straight away. Carry on in your echo chamber, both GG and anti-GG.

Here's the article that I found it in
look for RM-2R
http://blogjob.com/oneangrygamer/2016/02/fire-emblem-fates-censored-content-through-localization-has-gamers-fighting-back/

Can it be an echo chamber with such differing viewpoints?

He calls it an echo chamber because his opinions are not validated by absolutelly evryone arround here. But if it was an echo chamber users such as Vaina and dtgreene wouldn't even be here. I don't agree with them, and in the case of Vain there is not even actual discussion, but it is not an echo chamber, and even though I don't really get along with dtegreene and that user makes me angry very often, at least brings content to back up its views and tends to stay even more cyvil than I do, which is something that has earned some sort of respect and apreciation from that user. You could say dtgreene has become to me that kind of enemy one feels is a worthy oponent and not just a nuisance, also has shown very valid points every now and then.

What I thought, an Echo chamber because it's not one.

Observing a phenomenon and assigning a theory is part of the scientific method. Once you have a testable theory (which we could call a hypothesis at this point), we can design an experiment to test it. For example, if we observe that the speed of light is the same in all inertial reference frames (in other words, if you are chasing a beam of light, it is still, relative to you, moving at the speed of light), we can make a theory that incorporates this observation (Einstein did; it's called Special Relativity). We can then make predictions that (hopefully) are testable, and then test those predictions and see whether they're consistent with the theory. That is how science works.

So um. I have noticed that the discussion on gender is literally going nowhere, I advice we focus on the issues with Nintendo and localization since that IS about gaming and therefore of a higher priority. Once we are done with that we can go back to argue about gender if you want, but I think the issue with localization is something more important and something we should deal with before it is too late.

First you said that Gender doesnt matter because "OH PEOPLE HIDE THEIR GENITALS MOST PART OF THE TIME"

But you are like a Creationist trying to use "sciente" to demonstrate that the Earth is the center of the Universe, because you are SCARED of differences, and you are twisting facts both in a scientific way, and more in a semantic and semiotic way, kind of a "Scientific Sophism" that doesn´t try to find the truth, something that is what is Science is about, but TRY TO BUILD YOUR OWN TRUTH.

And that is dangerous, yes, specially for different people and minorities.

Fast googling I see several articles that say...

Sex and Gender are not the same thing
Sex and Gender are actually the same thing

Ummm contradictions... as most part of the articles, as I already said and you desperately ignored, you are not different from a Creationist trying to demonstrate by "science" that the actually the center of the Universe, is the Earth...

https://androgyneity.wordpress.com/2015/12/19/sex-and-gender-are-actually-the-same-thing-but-bear-with-me/

While the idea of treating sex and gender as unrelated factors may result from an attempt to validate and support transgender identities, it actually perpetuates harmful cultural beliefs about the validity of sex assignment and the static nature of biological sex, which remove agency from trans and intersex people to define their own bodies and experiences. This way of thinking does nothing to combat (and in fact often co-signs) the pathologization, alienation, and exclusion of trans people, especially trans women, on the basis of their seemingly immutable “biological sex”.