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Rusty_Gunn:
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budejovice: lol i read your title as i like bigots
well, they do supply me with my daily allowance of WTF!?
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Rusty_Gunn: the "tyranny of the minority" (that you're advocating) is IMHO one of those roads to hell paved with good intentions
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dtgreene: How is it tyranny? All I'm advocated is that this particular minority group has historically (and currently) been assaulted and even murdered just for being in that minority group, and therefore there needs to be some protection to minimize the number of cases.

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Shadowstalker16: Also, still waiting for your answer on whether we determine our sex.
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dtgreene: We do determine our own gender identities.
Wrong, the reality determine what you are, not your utopian/distopian ideals, you are not a Dragon, you can build and have the right of believe you are a Dragon and in some way you will become one, or an Unicorn, and thoughts change the world as just check how hot a Ladyboy can be looking like a woman, but the fact is that he is still a man, whatever if I will be more than happy to call him HER, and respect her lets call it meta-identity.

So, no, you are not a Dragon, I am ok that you consider yourself one, but you are not. The same way you can drive cars without hands if you are disabled and fight to find the way, but still, the fact is that you dont have hands. Nothing wrong or good on it.
Post edited February 18, 2016 by YaTEdiGo
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Eumismo: Also, if there is a minority suffering discrimination, like what happens to many transgender people, how can some of you not see the need to pprotect them from the abuse of the majority? Do you really think that just because some rules or laws are created to protect them the society will automaticaly become a "tyranny of the minority"? The majority already has power over the minorities. Trying to protect them do not necesarily mean to give them more power than the majority. Just the means to protect them from abuse.
Who said anything about laws? Anti-discrimination laws are mandatory and should be enforced.

And please, will some oppression olympics nut explain to me how a majority has power over a minority when the constitution guarantees equality? What abuse of the majority? Will the constitution allow the ''majority'' to pass legislation banning the hiring of a particular group of people? Just please explain to me how exactly an unorganized heterogeneous group of ''majority'' voters can do whatever they wish to the ''minority''. Please, explain.
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Eumismo: Okay, I have read some of the last pages of this topic and I can't help but feel shame for some people's behaviour with respect to other people's opinion on some of the subjects you are being discussed. Why are so many people voting negative to dtgreene? Did he insult you? Did he offend you? How can people be so disrespectful to different point of views?
Did you read beyond the last few pages? This thread is literally a name and shame for opinions. I was on 250 rep when I started talking here. This isn't an isolated issue by any means. And don't think the people who talk in this thread are the downvoters. They don't have enough numbers to get a post to low rated on their own. There is a silent group of cowering fascists who downvote everything they don't like.
Post edited February 18, 2016 by Shadowstalker16
low rated
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Shadowstalker16: And please, will some oppression olympics nut explain to me how a majority has power over a minority when the constitution guarantees equality? What abuse of the majority? Will the constitution allow the ''majority'' to pass legislation banning the hiring of a particular group of people? Just please explain to me how exactly an unorganized heterogeneous group of ''majority'' voters can do whatever they wish to the ''minority''. Please, explain.
Consider the following:

1. If a majority of voters like a candidate over the others, the candidate will be elected.
2. If a majority of those in the legislature like a bill, and no procedural trick is used, the bill will be sent to the governor. If the governor likes said bill, it will become a law.

Therefore, if the majority likes any given bill, it will likely become law. This means that minorities are screwed in this respect.

Also, keep in mind that any bill, even one that is blatantly unconstitutional, has the potential to be passed by a legislature and enforced. At that point, it is necessary for the courts to step in and actually enforce what the constitution says. Of course, Judges are failable, and they are usually either elected (in which case, see above) or appointed by someone who is elected.

Also, read this Wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
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Eumismo: snip
As was already said, the anti-discrimination rights are already there in any halfway modern country, no need for creating additional ones for privileged minority groups.

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Shadowstalker16: And please, will some oppression olympics nut explain to me how a majority has power over a minority when the constitution guarantees equality? What abuse of the majority? Will the constitution allow the ''majority'' to pass legislation banning the hiring of a particular group of people? Just please explain to me how exactly an unorganized heterogeneous group of ''majority'' voters can do whatever they wish to the ''minority''. Please, explain.
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dtgreene: Consider the following:

1. If a majority of voters like a candidate over the others, the candidate will be elected.
2. If a majority of those in the legislature like a bill, and no procedural trick is used, the bill will be sent to the governor. If the governor likes said bill, it will become a law.

Therefore, if the majority likes any given bill, it will likely become law. This means that minorities are screwed in this respect.

Also, keep in mind that any bill, even one that is blatantly unconstitutional, has the potential to be passed by a legislature and enforced. At that point, it is necessary for the courts to step in and actually enforce what the constitution says. Of course, Judges are failable, and they are usually either elected (in which case, see above) or appointed by someone who is elected.

Also, read this Wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
That's why we need better enforced constitutional rights instead of more laws that stand in conflict with equality and therefore the constitution. The cat is biting its own tail here.
Post edited February 18, 2016 by Klumpen0815
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Klumpen0815: As was already said, the anti-discrimination rights are already there in any halfway modern country, no need for creating additional ones for privileged minority groups.
Except that these minority groups are not privileged.

Edit: Remove comment that is basically the same as my next post.
Post edited February 18, 2016 by dtgreene
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What happened to my previous post?

Edit: It's visible now. It seems that this topic briefly succumbed to a forum bug that I have previously seen in other topics.
Post edited February 18, 2016 by dtgreene
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Klumpen0815: As was already said, the anti-discrimination rights are already there in any halfway modern country, no need for creating additional ones for privileged minority groups.
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dtgreene: Except that these minority groups are not privileged.

Edit: Remove comment that is basically the same as my next post.
with exception to white feminist women who else is privileged anymore?
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Klumpen0815: As was already said, the anti-discrimination rights are already there in any halfway modern country, no need for creating additional ones for privileged minority groups.
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dtgreene: Except that these minority groups are not privileged.

Edit: Remove comment that is basically the same as my next post.
Nor should they be. Privileges and freedom are two different things. One thing you have within you as a true power. The other one is a hall pass that the teacher gives you in school so you can go urinate.

People need to know the difference between a right and a privilege. One you can exercise on your own with no permission asked nor given. Privilege usually comes at the price of sacrificed freedom. Very obvious (and expensive) cost.
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Shadowstalker16: And please, will some oppression olympics nut explain to me how a majority has power over a minority when the constitution guarantees equality? What abuse of the majority? Will the constitution allow the ''majority'' to pass legislation banning the hiring of a particular group of people? Just please explain to me how exactly an unorganized heterogeneous group of ''majority'' voters can do whatever they wish to the ''minority''. Please, explain.
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dtgreene: Consider the following:

1. If a majority of voters like a candidate over the others, the candidate will be elected.
2. If a majority of those in the legislature like a bill, and no procedural trick is used, the bill will be sent to the governor. If the governor likes said bill, it will become a law.

Therefore, if the majority likes any given bill, it will likely become law. This means that minorities are screwed in this respect.

Also, keep in mind that any bill, even one that is blatantly unconstitutional, has the potential to be passed by a legislature and enforced. At that point, it is necessary for the courts to step in and actually enforce what the constitution says. Of course, Judges are failable, and they are usually either elected (in which case, see above) or appointed by someone who is elected.

Also, read this Wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
Yes, the system used to satisfy the maximum number of people. I don't deny unconstitutional legislation can theoretically be passed until the courts get involved (which they will by way of PIL if nothing else) but the basic principles of the constitution still cannot be violated. Most countries today have equality in their constitution's preamble and that cannot be reversed. And given the meaning of equality is so loose, it'll always be a good point to raise if malicious legislation is to come up.

Also, while the first point you mentioned is completely normal and common, the legislation is almost never a clean dichotomy and between majority and minority nor is there any guarantee of majority elected legislators being 100% in favor of discriminatory legislation and vice versa.

And of course since everything is connected, there is only a little far you can go in legislating in equality without messing up something else.

But if we forget for a second that legislators have their own beliefs and do legislate in favor of the minority, it depends on many other factors like the population of the minority, percentage of groups in political participation, etc. Its not just two homogeneous clans fighting in parliament.
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Klumpen0815: As was already said, the anti-discrimination rights are already there in any halfway modern country, no need for creating additional ones for privileged minority groups.
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dtgreene: Except that these minority groups are not privileged.

Edit: Remove comment that is basically the same as my next post.
What is ''privilege'' in this context?
Post edited February 18, 2016 by Shadowstalker16
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Shadowstalker16: And please, will some oppression olympics nut explain to me how a majority has power over a minority when the constitution guarantees equality? What abuse of the majority? Will the constitution allow the ''majority'' to pass legislation banning the hiring of a particular group of people? Just please explain to me how exactly an unorganized heterogeneous group of ''majority'' voters can do whatever they wish to the ''minority''. Please, explain.
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dtgreene: Consider the following:

1. If a majority of voters like a candidate over the others, the candidate will be elected.
2. If a majority of those in the legislature like a bill, and no procedural trick is used, the bill will be sent to the governor. If the governor likes said bill, it will become a law.

Therefore, if the majority likes any given bill, it will likely become law. This means that minorities are screwed in this respect.

Also, keep in mind that any bill, even one that is blatantly unconstitutional, has the potential to be passed by a legislature and enforced. At that point, it is necessary for the courts to step in and actually enforce what the constitution says. Of course, Judges are failable, and they are usually either elected (in which case, see above) or appointed by someone who is elected.

Also, read this Wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
Just wanted to chip in here and point out that what you are describing is called a democracy. It seems you do not like that system very much. Fortunately, there are some alternatives. Here is a list of places that have implemented your minority rule suggestions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism

Start saving for a ticket, your dream of a perfect society is close to coming true!
This seems almost too outlandishly crazy to be true : http://kukuruyo.com/2016/02/17/spain-gender-laws-a-country-against-men/
Can any Spanish GOGers confirm?
Post edited February 18, 2016 by Shadowstalker16
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Shadowstalker16: This seems almost too outlandishly crazy to be true : http://kukuruyo.com/2016/02/17/spain-gender-laws-a-country-against-men/
Can any Spanish GOGers confirm?
Well recently in the UK the law prosecutor spike the CCTV to make an innocent man look guilty, the the innocent legal team was forced to hire a specialist CCTV forensic expert to present the CCTV at the correct speed to prevent misuse of spiked evidence.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12146274/Prosecutors-slowed-down-CCTV-in-case-of-commuter-cleared-of-bizarre-sex-assault-on-actress.html

So I don't think it is unique to Spain.
Post edited February 18, 2016 by Gnostic
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Shadowstalker16: This seems almost too outlandishly crazy to be true : http://kukuruyo.com/2016/02/17/spain-gender-laws-a-country-against-men/
Can any Spanish GOGers confirm?
I've heard similar first hand stories from my American and some German buddies, so it's not really unusual.
As a man, calling the police because of domestic violence is a bad idea in general, it will make things MUCH worse.
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Shadowstalker16: This seems almost too outlandishly crazy to be true : http://kukuruyo.com/2016/02/17/spain-gender-laws-a-country-against-men/
Can any Spanish GOGers confirm?
I don't live in Spain, but I follow A Voice For Men in different languages and countries and there have been many abuses to men in the Spanish laws as of lately. However some authority figures have realized that is a problem. The thing is that after some terrorist events worldwide people were fucking afraid and the local leftie party offered them safety. Of course they only did so to push their agenda.

In the end it is funny that dtgreene complains about the "Tirany of the majority" and would not acknowledge that cases such as that of Spain are a "Tyrany of the minority".