Going full SJW does seem to be a bad business strategy for many companies.

They should learn from Protein World.

Let's face it, transphobic people are not in turn with the measurable, physical, evident reality, and that is a delusion.

All the evidence points to gender identity being set by the time of birth, or shortly thereafter, and not something that can be changed. Consider David Reimer, who after a botched circumcism, was raised as a girl. He ended up with suicidal thoughts and rejected his female upbringing, declaring himself to be a boy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

Also, what Kenneth Zucker was doing is indeed child abuse. Ordering a child's parents to discard toys the child likes (and which are not a health risk) is child abuse (as is actually doing so). Trying to change a person's personality is child abuse, and tends to lead to things like depression and suicide.

Look at this article (but keep in mind it's from 2007, and the magazine article is from 2001):
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/News/Drop%20the%20Barbie.htm
and at this quote from that article in particular: And this one:

OK, first of all, I might not be the most trans friendly guy out ther, but trust me, I am not transphobic, I am not afraid of them. I don't find a threat in their existence. I just give zero fucks about them and don't want people to ask me to give more thant that amount of fucks. So your attempt at insulting me is as botched as Reimer's circumcision.

I am glad at least we can agree with some things, such as the Reimer case and the fact that most individuals are kind of already programed in a way, but sometimes they must find out for themselfes, and that is what this group tried to do, they did not want them to undergo transition without being sure the kids found out for themselves what they wanted because the procedure is, well, hard to reverse.

And finally, if you read the whole thing you would notice that the child who had to be refused certain kinds of toys was not treated that way. He was just pressed to play with more nutral toys because the kid was obsessed to the point of being extremelly annoting.

But hey, you might have an opinion on that different to mine. Yet I firmly believe we should seek not to push any form of agenda on children but in stead to let them understand themselves before any big change takes place.

I am also against the draft because I believe it is also an act forced upon other's which is a big change.

How the fuck is this downrepped? Nausicaä IS a great movie everyone should see.

Buncha triggered special snowflakes up in this bitch!

Fuck if I know, maybe PETA?
"Don't you dare condone people attacking a city block sized pillbug"

Then again, the special snowflakes seem to hate anything fun.

My understanding is that he was able to treat kids with slight post-birth hormonal disorders(aka people with temporary gender dysphoria) with his method but he used it it equally to treat cases which were much more likely to be irreversible gender dysphoria with pre-natal origins. Either way, I don't know if taking toys away is child abuse, but its certainly a cold therapy technique.

And of course the question must be asked to every person who experiences gender dysphoria whether it is a temporary or permanent; because as you pointed out, a person not having it getting treatments as if they did have it is just as bad as people having and needing treatment not getting it.

If there are more clinics and docs who practice the methods which go middle ground between encouraging and suppressing, I think that is what should be treated as the normal for this. I don't speak for anyone else, but all I in my quite limited knowledge want is something that can accurately recognize temporary and permanent cases and treat each accordingly as opposed to either ''crush out all non matching feeling'' or ''encourage any and all unmatching feelings''.

In fact one of the persons cited in the article (Not Zucker, but one of the individuals on his side) stated something similar to what you said. And I agree, we should treat each case individually and deal with them as such understanding whether or not their dysphoria is permanent or temporary.

And I agree. That is absolutelly necessary, I do believe they are dellusional, but just as OCD patients such as I are also dellusional and still can lead a healthy life, so do transgender people.

Vainamoinen is back and voting down all my posts as usual, I guess. Now I'm losing the points again I got for partaking in many threads every day and getting high ratings for giveaways etc... in the weeks of his absence.
It doesn't matter what's inside the posts.
Nausicaä is an 80s movie with a female hero which is strong, intelligent, caring, empathic, multi talented etc... and makes all the guys around her look like complete fools, so it surely wasn't because of what I've written inside the post.

Have you ever seen one of the PC-culture hive making a joke around here?
They're not here for fun, only for politics and hatred.
Maybe you are right and some people are just allergic to fun of any kind though.

Isn't the whole GamerGate thing mostly about how some people think that an agenda is an acceptable substitute for ethics anyway by now?

Imho every tampering with a childs sexual identity is wrong, regardless of the direction.
If someone wants to have heavy body-mods after the age of 18 it shouldn't be a problem.
The problem is the whole topic "gender identity", I abhor the very idea completely since it's reviving the old role models instead of just letting them pass away naturally and having all possible combinations of body and character that may come naturally. I've always liked butch women and sensitive men and this whole modern nonsense is starting to prevent them from existing. Some people are so entangled in their academic circles, that they completely lost their common sense collectively and stop looking at it from a neutral angle.

When I was younger some people were convinced I would be gay, because I wasn't your average dude at all and never did or was what people expected from me. I guess today some of the same people would be convinced, that I am "trapped in the wrong body". It's neither, they should just go away and mind their own business and stop trying to hinder people from developing real self-acceptance.
I never did like, that the few real (=natural) hermaphrodites were always "treated" to become "proper men" or "proper women" (decided by their parents) at an early age either.
What is happening is the opposite of supporting natural diversity.

People tamper way too much.

This. Absolutely this!^

Let me clear one thing up:

Gender Identity and Gender Expression are two different things. While they often coincide, they do not always do so; in fact, every combination exists. There exist trans men (that is, people assigned female at birth but who identify as male) who like to wear dresses. Butch trans women exist.

There is a "genderbread person" image on the internet that attempts to explain all this:
http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2015/03/the-genderbread-person-v3/

Basically, gender identity, gender expression, "biological sex" (which in itself is a whole can of worms), sexual orientation, and romantic orientation are all independent factors. Further, the safest assumption is that all permutations exist.

Your last statement is "people tamper way too much". I would argue that what Kenneth Zucker was doing was tampering too much; if a boy wants to wear a dress and play with dolls, let him! If he wants long hair, let him! There's no good reason to discourage him from wearing the clothes he likes, playing with the toys he likes, and wearing his hair the way he likes. Don't worry about his gender identity unless he keeps insisting he is a girl or wants to be a girl, and even then, you don't need to worry about medical treatment until puberty.

As a side note, I consider dress codes that allow girls, but not boys, to wear dresses and have long hair to be discriminatory. Take a look at this article where students actually protested that sort of dress code (complete with a picture of boys wearing dresses):
http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2016/02/02/students-defy-gender-norms-to-protest-clovis-dress-code

Of course and I just think, that there's no reason trying to influence people towards any direction (including the "trans" one), especcially not if they're still children. At the moment I see a strong pro-trans agenda in some places that has surpassed the meddling of the other side and this is just as toxic.

I'm European and we don't have this problem in such a way, at least not in the northern cities and not as much as christian America. Secularism is solving a lot problems with intolerance in the long run anyway.
I've already seen some men (with or without beards) wearing dresses that were clearly meant for women at several occasions and although people understandably looked surprised, I haven't seen anyone harrassing them.
Imho wearing robes that are more fitting to the body type is a better idea, but that's just my fashion sense and a man in a woman's dress doesn't look any more ill fitting than what some HipHoppers are usually wearing.
Nobody even notices anymore if women wear "men's" clothes since it has become so normal, but when it comes to the other way round, the difference shows a strong sexism against men indeed.

Men with long hair are looked down upon in some places, that's true but more the case in business. Around here we get discriminated when it comes to a lot of jobs (bank and selling food at a counter) where women are allowed to wear long hair and I got such responses several times when I desperately needed money, but in the private world it is rather seen as a sign of beauty and many women like it.
When I wear a robe-like outfit with my 70cm long hair open I only get a few weird looks by people over 60 and some younger women which ironically are often the most intolerant and sexist people. Everyone else just doesn't care and neither do I and in fact many goths, metalers and some punks rather like it.

We probably would have less "trans" if people were free to express their fashion sense.

The existence of the classical male/female fashion has two reasons:
A) Body type - of course
B) Elegant vs. practical - Men are still supposed to do the heavy, dirty and dangerous work and practical robust clothes with no fringes and short hair is the logical way to go there and imho your work is defining your identity more than your sex in the long run. Just compare male artists with people that work in a sewer or at a building site, I've never seen women in either of the last two btw.

If you were to travel 100 years back in time, the people back then would see all of us, men and women, as being weak and effeminate. The problems lie with chemicals and hormones, and with automation, which has atrophied human labor and innovation. We're ALL becoming emasculated and weak as a species... mainly due to our past successes. We are quite literally victims of our ancestors' achievements.

But that story doesn't sell books or movies, and it certainly doesn't help with the constant 'us vs them' division that goes on between the races and the sexes. The human race is headed towards a cliff of its own design, and yet we continue to argue over the distance and size of the cliff.

Yes, I'm going meta on your ass once again. This isn't about dresses and beard length. It's about the slow corruption and ultimate death of free humanity. Sorry, gotta call it as a I see it.

Well if you see your child lean to the side of transgender and know that down the path lies a world full of hurt, will you try to temper your child to avoid that? Or at least let the child do what the child wants but school the child to make it a secret from the public?