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General discussionThe #Gamergate news thread(8424 posts) (8424 posts) 
(8424 posts) 
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 27, 2015
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Rusty_Gunn: 1. Call me crazy, but I don't think that would be a good way for GOG to say "Your freedom of speech isn't in danger of being censored out".

2. why does the fact that people are fighting for the continued existence of free expression make you "ashamed to be a gamer"?
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ryannaughton1138: Because that's not what you are fighting for. This is all about silencing critics who have different opinions then your own. So Anita Sarkeesian has a different opinion about video games that you like. Big deal. She's basically talking about stuff I learned in my Community College Sociology class, and that's not exactly ground breaking stuff. But the fact that the movement is trying to make her and people like her out to be grotesque monsters is sickening. Her rise in popularity is because Gamergate will not shut up about her.

And before you mention Zoe Qunn, I'd like to share this post from the man who started this whole charade:https://thezoepost.wordpress.com/2014/08/16/tldr-2/

Also, here is a nice lesson on how "free expression" really works: http://xkcd.com/1357/
Nice effort, I'll give you that. Not that I agree. as much as people complained about Anita I think they rather her do actual research (for example: her own game concept fails by feminist theory standards)

Also silencing critics: isn't that just what Anita asked of the UN?
Posted September 27, 2015
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ryannaughton1138: Because that's not what you are fighting for. This is all about silencing critics who have different opinions then your own. So Anita Sarkeesian has a different opinion about video games that you like. Big deal. She's basically talking about stuff I learned in my Community College Sociology class, and that's not exactly ground breaking stuff. But the fact that the movement is trying to make her and people like her out to be grotesque monsters is sickening. Her rise in popularity is because Gamergate will not shut up about her.

And before you mention Zoe Qunn, I'd like to share this post from the man who started this whole charade:https://thezoepost.wordpress.com/2014/08/16/tldr-2/

Also, here is a nice lesson on how "free expression" really works: http://xkcd.com/1357/
You're the one wanting to delete that thread under fallacious pretenses of "conspiracy theory" and "fear mongering". And you're talking about silencing opinions ?

You're linking a comic speaking of free expression... And yet you're the one equating ridiculing Sarkeesian's feeble arguments with silencing her.

That's quite amusing, in a way.
Post edited September 27, 2015 by Tza
Posted September 27, 2015
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Rusty_Gunn: 1. Call me crazy, but I don't think that would be a good way for GOG to say "Your freedom of speech isn't in danger of being censored out".

2. why does the fact that people are fighting for the continued existence of free expression make you "ashamed to be a gamer"?
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ryannaughton1138: Because that's not what you are fighting for. This is all about silencing critics who have different opinions then your own. So Anita Sarkeesian has a different opinion about video games that you like. Big deal. She's basically talking about stuff I learned in my Community College Sociology class, and that's not exactly ground breaking stuff. But the fact that the movement is trying to make her and people like her out to be grotesque monsters is sickening. Her rise in popularity is because Gamergate will not shut up about her.

And before you mention Zoe Qunn, I'd like to share this post from the man who started this whole charade:https://thezoepost.wordpress.com/2014/08/16/tldr-2/

Also, here is a nice lesson on how "free expression" really works: http://xkcd.com/1357/
First it has never been proven that GG did send threats and if she states that masculinity is the reason for mass shootings and masculinity must be erased from the Earth on Twitter you do need not much IQ to know that many people will disagree. The only people I see being stigmatized by the media with a big brush are millions of gamers.

Second, she did never engage in any discussion with critics of her perspective on games. There are 1000-1500+ games released every year since 1990. When she talks about her examples of games, she talks about a small subset, a really small subset of games - some may be popular, but they are not the norm.

Furthermore she states that women are not and should not be capable to make their own life decisions as they may make decisions which harm her perspective on Feminism in her eyes.

And looking at freedom of speech: When you silence one side, may you disagree or not, you rob yourself of the possibility of a true opinion.

http://www.utilitarianism.com/ol/two.html

She does not engage in any discussion. Her "Motto" is listen and believe for a reason.
Post edited September 27, 2015 by MaGo72
Posted September 27, 2015
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Rusty_Gunn: 1. Call me crazy, but I don't think that would be a good way for GOG to say "Your freedom of speech isn't in danger of being censored out".

2. why does the fact that people are fighting for the continued existence of free expression make you "ashamed to be a gamer"?
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ryannaughton1138: Because that's not what you are fighting for. This is all about silencing critics who have different opinions then your own. So Anita Sarkeesian has a different opinion about video games that you like. Big deal. She's basically talking about stuff I learned in my Community College Sociology class, and that's not exactly ground breaking stuff. But the fact that the movement is trying to make her and people like her out to be grotesque monsters is sickening. Her rise in popularity is because Gamergate will not shut up about her.

And before you mention Zoe Qunn, I'd like to share this post from the man who started this whole charade:https://thezoepost.wordpress.com/2014/08/16/tldr-2/

Also, here is a nice lesson on how "free expression" really works: http://xkcd.com/1357/
lol wut m8?
No one in GG is trying to silence Anita Sarkeesian. There are people with similar feminist analyses of games both in proGG and neutGG. What GG hates about Anita is her connections with the press doing her favors and silencing the critique of her analyses by omission or dismissal and many people despite proof her tea-reading methods claiming her mumbo jumbo as fact. If GG wanted to silence critics, why would they look for aGG mods to include in the nGG subreddit? Or have various infighting discussions on KiA itself? You kinda miss the point that these are people who wouldn't normally be lumped in together and there is vast diversity of opinions within GG.

Out her as grotesque monsters? Have you even seen what they do? They're the kind of people who would scream patriarchy if a bird shit on their car. All Anita has done is make claims without even a shred of evidence to back it up. And yes; probably unlike you, I've read the entirety of the Zoepost. If you think Zoe has credentials enough to speak at the United Opinions Women thing, please tell me where they are. You are seeing all criticism as harassment. So quit being so pious and try to dig up the facts. The report the prepared was from the 90s; the speakers have no credentials and the whole thing is a publicity stunt for them and a cheap ride of the wave by the UN.

I don't see what you mean in the comic. What is happening here is the equivalent of the UN inviting Roosh to speak about gender issues. The only difference being the UN, the mainstream and gaming media are taking her claims and that ''report'' as objective fact.

And what did you say? GG made Anita popular? Pwease : [url=https://twitter.com/Nero/status/647522550575140864/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw]https://twitter.com/Nero/status/647522550575140864/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw[/url] Gotta milk dem victimux man.
Posted September 28, 2015
low rated
All right. Here is my response to your responses.

Rusty_Gunn
Criticism isn't a science. It's not based on evidence, or rigor. It's all based on opinion. And Anita just happens to have a different opinion from you. There is no rule book on how to be feminist.

Tza
Gamergate is a text book conspiracy theory. Anita, and people like her are demonized to the point where instead resembling human beings, they resemble grotesque monsters that are incredibly unrealistically powerful.

No dice one your comment regarding the comic either. The point still stands. There is good reason why the mainstream media treat Gamergate with the contempt they. That tends to happen when innocent people are harassed.

MaGo72
She never said anything about how masculinity needs to exterminated or how games cause school shooting. I checked. She did say this in one of her videos:
"We typically don’t have a monkey-see monkey-do, direct cause and effect relationship with the media we consume. Cultural influence works in much more subtle and complicated ways, however media narratives do have a powerful cultivation effect helping to shape cultural attitudes and opinions."

And she is really only scratching the surface. The are other much more sophisticated academics who study this kind of thing.

She has no obligation to engage anyone about what she believes. Especially with people who've driven her out of her home.

Plus no self respecting feminist would claim that women can't make there own decisions.

Also this conversation has nothing to do with an outdated concept like utilitarianism.

Shadowstalker16
Those connections to the press are par for the course in the entertainment industry. She is getting attention because she is one of the few people who are treating video games like art, and a big part of analyzing art is criticizing it. And what she is saying may be simple, but by no means invalid.

She is not the shrieking patriarchy hating starwwoman you are making her out to be. She is just a person with who has her own opinions. I don't necessarily agree with everything she says. But that's nature of criticism. It all comes down to opinion. What she and Quinn are facing are not criticism. It's name calling, and death threats.
http://www.vocativ.com/culture/society/anita-sarkeesian-threats/

GOG deserves better than being associated with Gamergate. The people who run this site deserve better, because I know they are better than Gamergate:

https://archive.is/cwZBg

http://www.destructoid.com/gog-refusing-to-sell-hatred-292793.phtml
Posted September 28, 2015
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ryannaughton1138: snip
"Not a coincidence it’s always men and boys committing mass shootings. The pattern is connected to ideas of toxic masculinity in our culture."

"We need to seriously address connections between violence, sexism and toxic ideas of manhood before boys and men commit more mass shootings."

Both Anita quotes from Twitter, want to try again?
Post edited September 28, 2015 by RWarehall
Posted September 28, 2015
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ryannaughton1138: Shadowstalker16
Those connections to the press are par for the course in the entertainment industry. She is getting attention because she is one of the few people who are treating video games like art, and a big part of analyzing art is criticizing it. And what she is saying may be simple, but by no means invalid.

She is not the shrieking patriarchy hating starwwoman you are making her out to be. She is just a person with who has her own opinions. I don't necessarily agree with everything she says. But that's nature of criticism. It all comes down to opinion. What she and Quinn are facing are not criticism. It's name calling, and death threats.
http://www.vocativ.com/culture/society/anita-sarkeesian-threats/

GOG deserves better than being associated with Gamergate. The people who run this site deserve better, because I know they are better than Gamergate:

https://archive.is/cwZBg

http://www.destructoid.com/gog-refusing-to-sell-hatred-292793.phtml
She does not criticize art. She criticizes depictions of a certain sex within the art form of games. She does not criticize the other parts, and does her critique out of context and with her own brand of authoritarian feminism. And no; would you say the same about other critics? All games critics critique and nothing about Anita makes her special. And no matter how much of an oppressed talented art critic you see in her, journalists cannot report on factually incorrect terms. All her claims are shallow and her claims of harassment as being from one particualr place are un-proven as to where they're coming from. Anita has the right to spout her opinions on whoever listens but the brave beautiful media that you say gave her attention is bound to report factually. Not doing so calls their ethical standards into question and shows probable ties that are more than professional relationships.

FFS who said she doesn't have her own opinions? What she and Quinn face is mostly criticism and a few death threats, for all of which the posters cannot be traced. So how about you actually try to get the facts right? You're just making a strawman and not reading the posts or the facts.
Posted September 28, 2015
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ryannaughton1138: Rusty_Gunn
Criticism isn't a science. It's not based on evidence, or rigor. It's all based on opinion. And Anita just happens to have a different opinion from you. There is no rule book on how to be feminist.
....
GOG deserves better than being associated with Gamergate. The people who run this site deserve better, because I know they are better than Gamergate:
Then she shouldn't phrase her opinions as if they ware facts & Many of her opinions are flat out incorrect
here's a classic example....
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.857622-Anita-Sarkeesian-Hitman-Absolution-Epic-Fail

I'd rather let GOG have the agency to decide what they want on their own forums.
Posted September 28, 2015
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ryannaughton1138: GOG deserves better than being associated with Gamergate. The people who run this site deserve better, because I know they are better than Gamergate:

https://archive.is/cwZBg

http://www.destructoid.com/gog-refusing-to-sell-hatred-292793.phtml
I'm sure they do. You should force them to believe it after dogpiling them on social media. You can't even look at facts before posting and seem to be just spewing ignorant opinions and believing them to be true. As said, a simple google can fix all your doubts so do so if your religion permits.

WTF do the articles have to do with this? So non-discriminatory of you to post a neutral article just because it was written by a trans person. I'm sure you don't discriminate based on gender at all. And what does Brianna have to do with any of this? There is a shoe and a hornn. When combined its called shoehorn. I don't know really, but thats what it is.
Posted September 28, 2015
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ryannaughton1138: All right. Here is my response to your responses.

Tza
Gamergate is a text book conspiracy theory. Anita, and people like her are demonized to the point where instead resembling human beings, they resemble grotesque monsters that are incredibly unrealistically powerful.

No dice one your comment regarding the comic either. The point still stands. There is good reason why the mainstream media treat Gamergate with the contempt they. That tends to happen when innocent people are harassed.
To each their own, I guess.

I personnally can't take people like Sarkeesian seriously for numerous reasons :

- her ridiculous hatred for masculinity and men. Associating mass murders and shootings with everyday's man or boy and masculinity ? Well, she did it.

- her habit of considering her opinions and personal feelings as scientifically proven facts.

- her habit of taking things out of their context to fallaciously categorize them as "misogynist", "sexist" or worse...
She gleefuly described Hitman Absolution like some sort of disgusting game made for misogynist necrophiliac males. That's sufficient for me to see her like a delusional ideologue.

- her "critics" concerning videogames heroines in general. Too suggestive for her taste ? Oh, she'll be "objectified", then. Too badass for her taste ? Damn, she's just a man in disguise ! She's got a secondary role ? Let's say that she's used like a decorative object.

- her habit of considering critics of her videos like harassment, regardless of their content.

- her total ignorance of games she's "analyzing". Screw their background, their backstory, their story, their characters, their plot. Everything is certainly simpler with a pre-established oppresive patriarcal narrative when she knows litteraly nothing about the game she's supposedly criticizing.

- her habit of using other people's youtube gaming footages for her videos, without asking or crediting their owner.

To me, she's the epitome of the radicalized authoritarian feminist without any integrity, intellectual honesty or basic academic rigour.
Post edited September 28, 2015 by Tza
Posted September 28, 2015
high rated
Hey swinging Gogsters and G'gaters! Careful, you might learn sumfin' X-D or Moar Foar Yoar Quoar! or Information Edification.

The British are coming - to spy on you, that is!

Scientist warn Azheimer's could be transmittable human-to-human.

Sjw pedophile propaganda escalates.

More on media promotion of child rape.

Russia bans GMO crops.

Or how 'bout a li'l sustainable development?

... or Common Core .. one of the many joys of Living In America!

That'll keep ya happy! Enjoinow! <@;^D+<
Post edited September 28, 2015 by noncompliantgame
Posted September 28, 2015
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ryannaughton1138: All right. Here is my response to your responses.

Rusty_Gunn
Criticism isn't a science. It's not based on evidence, or rigor. It's all based on opinion. And Anita just happens to have a different opinion from you. There is no rule book on how to be feminist.
Yeah, no need to base on evidence......

The sun rise from the wast and set in the east.

You are a green skin monster with 3 hands and 4 legs.

babies comes from stork.

I am GOD
Posted September 28, 2015
high rated
Anita can say what she wants but she isn't entitled to her own facts and in several instances in the FF Tropes series she says things that are *objectively* wrong. As in provably wrong. Pointing that out is not harassment, it's not even criticism, it's a correction. And she labels that as harassment and anybody who doesn't regurgitate said "new facts" is labeled an harasser. That's not cricket. It's just outright bullshit, and not being allowed to say so without being labelled some kind of troglodyte is the most WTF reactionary craziness. She says in the videos she wants to start a discussion or starts the video with "in the last episode we discussed" but THEN TURNS THE COMMENTS OFF. That's not a discussion, that's just monologing or giving dictation. Discussion is two-way, or else you might as well deliver a soliloquy to your sycophants in the audience.

And then there are the people who say they don't want to take away our games, and will then call for a game to be banned because it has knickers in it and you can see them sometimes.

And there are people who claim to want equality and then cry foul and when female and trans and LGBT figures are treated in any way other than perfect beings and the minute one of them is put in harm's way or shown to have a character flaw it's seen some kind of attack on whatever minority had the misfortune to not meet the impossible demands of the politically correct. And male characters who aren't riddled with character flaws are seen as some kind of sexist power fantasy because they're so perfect and tough. That's not equality. It's not even close.

All of the above would be fine, maybe, if it weren't for one thing: Constant lack of disclosure on the relationships between the reporter and the subject. It all from honest journalism in to some kind of clique to promote the insiders to the detriment of everyone else, including the actual consumers of both reportage and entertainment. There are groups of people, circles of friends, all cross-promoting one another's work without letting the reader know that everybody involved hangs out when they're in town, donating to each other on patreon and kickstarting one another and promoting said kickstarter in some kind cross-promotional orgy feedback loop.

It started out as an ethical problem and has devolved in to the kind of ad-hominem shitstorm that no one can escape without mud on their face. And it sucks.

I just want to play games (and some of those games might have boobs in them!) and not be called a monster because I require a source when someone tells me that sex crimes have tripled since Grand Theft Auto was released.
Posted September 28, 2015
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arrjayjee: ...

And there are people who claim to want equality and then cry foul and when female and trans and LGBT figures are treated in any way other than perfect beings and the minute one of them is put in harm's way or shown to have a character flaw it's seen some kind of attack on whatever minority had the misfortune to not meet the impossible demands of the politically correct. And male characters who aren't riddled with character flaws are seen as some kind of sexist power fantasy because they're so perfect and tough. That's not equality. It's not even close.
...
The combination of hyper individualism juxtaposed to and yet working in concert with tyrannical collectivism that is subverted under the guise of a mixture of fraudulent sentiments of peace, love and optimism combined with a false notion of human rights, add to this the absence of a defining personal sense of identity induced by living in a shallow vapid consumer culture all leading to the psychopathic nature of conforming to a collective belief system.
Posted September 28, 2015
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ryannaughton1138: Gamergate is a text book conspiracy theory. Anita, and people like her are demonized to the point where instead resembling human beings, they resemble grotesque monsters that are incredibly unrealistically powerful.
I think you mixed up anita and gamergate here.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussionThe #Gamergate news thread(8424 posts) (8424 posts) 
(8424 posts)