It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
low rated
avatar
Fever_Discordia: To me, he is saying that the 'gamer identity' (whatever THAT is) is to tight and restrictive a definition to encompass all that gaming is, not gamers themselves being inflexible
avatar
227: "What is actually going on is an attempt to retain hegemony. Make no mistake: this is the exertion of power in the name of (male) gamer orthodoxy—an orthodoxy that has already begun to disappear."

Sure sounds like it to me. In fact, that's pretty much his entire argument. The point he was making was that the ethics thing was invented by a bunch of stereotypical, shooter-playing (see the bit about "real gamers" and Candy Crush that narrows what he's talking about down to CoD) male gamers in order to lash out against games changing, that change being the catalyst for the definition not applying anymore. Gamers being inflexible isn't just something he implies; it's the premise of his piece. When he says "the gamer identity," he means GG (it came out as the hashtag was just starting tot take off). Just read the paragraph where he claims that "the gamer identity [...] has nowhere to call home, and so it reaches out inarticulately at invented problems, such as bias and corruption, which are partly just ways of expressing confusion as to why things the traditional gamer does not understand are successful" Last i checked, the abstract concept of "gamer" didn't do anything like that.

But seriously, I'm sleepy, so we'll have to argue semantics later.
Yeah, I guess, to me those aren't offensive sentiments but seductive ones -
"It's OK, Don't worry there's no bias and corruption going on here it's just a bunch of entitled kidiots who can't cope with or understand that some people like different kinds of games to them"
Although, I suspect, as usual, in reality the truth is somewhere in the middle - I mean those 2 things aren't actually mutually exclusive, when you think about it...
Post edited June 22, 2015 by Fever_Discordia
avatar
Fever_Discordia: But there's eating steak and then there's eating steak at hooters isn't there?
I mean I can't believe that Alexander wrote that article without thinking about what kinds of movies and TV shows are popular and thinking that the gaming landscape would be any different
But I can't see, say, an off-colour rhyme about suicide and transvestites making it into an ep. of Supernatural, American Horror Story or the inevitable next Transformers movie, although I don't think it would have gotten anywhere near that particular game either if it weren't for the peculiarities of Kickstarter and funding tiers - dangers of our brave new world on all sides!
avatar
Shadowstalker16: I don't know. I don't even know what hooters is :P
What similarity between TV and movies and games. They serve entirely different audiences. What is good in a movie may not be good in a game and vice versa.

EDIT : I wonder the being online of which individual coincides with dragonbeast and me losing 2 REP and RW going down 6 in just a few minutes.............
Hooters is an American bar restaurant chain where sexy women in sexy clothes serve the customers. Well liked by many men and hated by feminists. Most feminists see it as demeaning and abussive to women. However most of its employees are proud of working there and actually like having a job wher they can both use their good looks while learning a craft (waitress) without exposing themselves beyond their comfort zone. It has extended to other countries, for example Mexico, and some of the waitresses even become pinup models sometimes. While I have never felt interest in the chain (and at least in Mexico it is known for its unamussing food), I believe people should be free to go there and work there and forbiding such places is not right. It is not exploitation of women, it is allowing women who want to work on their good looks find a job, Hooters has strict policies regarding real sexual harassment and the employees are treated with respect and dignity by most managers.
low rated
So Gamergate was supposed to oppose, expose and bring to shame "corruption" or lack of source criticalitsy (close ties) of gaming journalists to game publishers.

This is the pitch as far as I know.

Did it actually do any of that, substantially? ;-)


I do meanwhile note the post above being a bit upset of purported feminism of not everyone endorsing what probably would be an earnest and honest titty-bar if US was not so puritan about the prurient.

And btw - nothing wrong with honest titty-bars, if the labour conditions are fair n square.

And quite a bit wrong with non-source critical / non-independent journalism.
avatar
TStael: So Gamergate was supposed to oppose, expose and bring to shame "corruption" or lack of source criticalitsy (close ties) of gaming journalists to game publishers.

This is the pitch as far as I know.

Did it actually do any of that, substantially? ;-)
Answer to your question...Yes it did, in Spades!
avatar
Shadowstalker16: I don't know. I don't even know what hooters is :P
What similarity between TV and movies and games. They serve entirely different audiences. What is good in a movie may not be good in a game and vice versa.

EDIT : I wonder the being online of which individual coincides with dragonbeast and me losing 2 REP and RW going down 6 in just a few minutes.............
avatar
LeonardoCornejo: Hooters is an American bar restaurant chain where sexy women in sexy clothes serve the customers. Well liked by many men and hated by feminists. Most feminists see it as demeaning and abussive to women. However most of its employees are proud of working there and actually like having a job wher they can both use their good looks while learning a craft (waitress) without exposing themselves beyond their comfort zone. It has extended to other countries, for example Mexico, and some of the waitresses even become pinup models sometimes. While I have never felt interest in the chain (and at least in Mexico it is known for its unamussing food), I believe people should be free to go there and work there and forbiding such places is not right. It is not exploitation of women, it is allowing women who want to work on their good looks find a job, Hooters has strict policies regarding real sexual harassment and the employees are treated with respect and dignity by most managers.
That sounds great. It'd really help women gain self confidence in oppressive countries like mine where women who expose themselves more than is ''needed'' are looked down upon while women who happen to enjoy wearing more traditional clothing are appreciated. Radfems will always be about enforcing their opinion than enforcing equality. Glad some outtlets oppose them and have character enough to not be a dumb drooling brainless social justice controlled tool. I too agree women should be free to work where they see fit; and provided there is good policy on REAL sexual harassment and good pay; I don't see where the problems lie. Trying to push a form of equality that pushes women away from certain jobs and toward others is so stupidly conservative; I've seen it here. Its just medieval. IMO; equality=women and men have equal right to do the job they please.
avatar
TStael: So Gamergate was supposed to oppose, expose and bring to shame "corruption" or lack of source criticalitsy (close ties) of gaming journalists to game publishers.

This is the pitch as far as I know.

Did it actually do any of that, substantially? ;-)

I do meanwhile note the post above being a bit upset of purported feminism of not everyone endorsing what probably would be an earnest and honest titty-bar if US was not so puritan about the prurient.

And btw - nothing wrong with honest titty-bars, if the labour conditions are fair n square.

And quite a bit wrong with non-source critical / non-independent journalism.
There is a site called deepfreeze that records all that stuff and proof will be archived. Check for yourself and decide : http://deepfreeze.it/
Post edited June 23, 2015 by Shadowstalker16
low rated
avatar
Shadowstalker16: 1.Yes; its clear that that demographic is only going to get bigger as more kids get phones.
2.No, never existed. At most; there were 50% of gamers who were like that. That trope itself was created by the MSM after they observed MMO players. Now; MMOs are very rarely the main consumption game for most gamers. Even when it was; I doubt it couldn't have been more than 50% considering there were titles like Doom Out quite early as well. So in the 80s; you were a minority! Yay! Congrats!
Firstly, I think you should look up a definition of stereotype. If 50% of a group have a particular attribute, it would be entirely reasonable to use that attribute to describe a stereotypical member of that group.

Secondly, Doom came out in 1993. I think you will find not many gamers, stereotypical or otherwise, were playing Doom in the 80s.

My friends and I spent a lot of time in the 80s playing Alley Cat, Jump Joe, Digger, Moria - games that were either black and white or CGA (4 colours). Doom wasn't running on my IBM XT with 256kb ram and 5 1/4 inch floppy disk, I can assure you.

avatar
Shadowstalker16: Then it must be feeling and not thinking, 'cus thinking requires analysis of facts. Who tried to drive who out of the industry? Zoe Quinn was driven out? You are again generalizing because you want a perfect enemy. Like it or not; you don't live in a world where someone just wakes up one day and thinks;''You know; gaming would be better if the no names who are the developers were only male, because I can't really feel the toxic masculine culture oozing out from my screen when one among all the poor pawns doing modelling work for CoD is a female''; so deal with it.
I would say that there are people who would like Zoe Quinn out of the industry (and Nathan Grayson, Kotaku, Polygon, etc, for that matter). I would say that a number of people who reposted the allegations that Zoe Quinn had slept with 5 guys for positive coverage of her game did so with the intent that it would result in her leaving the industry . I don't think that everyone who did [posted it had that intent, but I think it is disingenuous to suggest no one tried to drive her out.

I personally don't think anyone wants only male developers or masculine games (maybe some people do, I can't say for certain). I think the issue is a lot more nuanced than that. I think what is really happening is that people think that SJW/feminists are pushing too hard for what they want and they are pushing back against that. That is why they are going on the offensive against devs and games writers who they think are SJWs or feminists - for example the list of SJW journos on 4chan.
avatar
htown1980: I would say that there are people who would like Zoe Quinn out of the industry (and Nathan Grayson, Kotaku, Polygon, etc, for that matter). I would say that a number of people who reposted the allegations that Zoe Quinn had slept with 5 guys for positive coverage of her game did so with the intent that it would result in her leaving the industry . I don't think that everyone who did [posted it had that intent, but I think it is disingenuous to suggest no one tried to drive her out.

I personally don't think anyone wants only male developers or masculine games (maybe some people do, I can't say for certain). I think the issue is a lot more nuanced than that. I think what is really happening is that people think that SJW/feminists are pushing too hard for what they want and they are pushing back against that. That is why they are going on the offensive against devs and games writers who they think are SJWs or feminists - for example the list of SJW journos on 4chan.
But you can't say with certainty that people want Zoe Quinn to never develop a game again. That is just assuming the worst out of all given possibilities. Then it can also be assumed that Zoe Quinn accepted the accusations in public because she wanted publicity. Assumptions can clearly be made, but they will always be one sided. We have more than assumptions to argue with; so IMO its better to get the facts straight first before going to theories.

Yes, people do think that. Its partly true because as in every other medium, evolution is the accepted pace of change. When there is simultaneous attack on all sides by gamejournos, MSM, SJWs and conformist developers; people go on the offensive against them. This isn't specific to gaming at all. If a Charlie Chaplin film had a scene similar to one in a movie like Human Centipede (brr.....; just lost appetite) or Species, people would've been angry as well. The pace and nature of the changes being suggested is way too extreme for most people to deal with. In the Charlie Chaplin situation; things might have been different. Do keep in mind that the people who suggest these changes are gender terrorists who hear stuff like 'kill all men' and won't say if they agree or not. Or people who say that there shouldn't have been an option to play as a male; or says that women are inherently more trustworthy than men. Anyone who only wants EQUALITY and nothing more will steer clear of these arguments and people. But when a cult of self hating males and men hating females riding the MSM wave both cut off the voice and try to implement radical and non gender neutral changes, PEOPLE ARE JUSTIFIED IN BEING ANGRY.

Thinking someone is an SJW is one thing. But when people say rad fem groupthink words like a game's world is misogynist and that some mechanics are designed solely for the sexual pleasure of dragging around dead bodies; there is confirmation. People have the right to do that; and when certain radical limits are reached; I believe making a list is justified.

Again; what is wrong with if a FF character looks sexy? But what does the Sarkeesian say? ALL VG WOMEN MUST NOT HAVE UNDUE EMPHASIS ON THEIR REAR END, OR BOOBS. 'Undue!' you say? When that woman considers pixels to be due, what exactly is not undue? Stifling artistic freedom is what its all about.

Also, as an obligatory question; what do you want on the gender front? I want EQUALITY. Feminism used to be something mentioned with equality. Now in a world where a large majority of people support equality; it has turned into something else.
avatar
TStael: So Gamergate was supposed to oppose, expose and bring to shame "corruption" or lack of source criticalitsy (close ties) of gaming journalists to game publishers.

This is the pitch as far as I know.

Did it actually do any of that, substantially? ;-)
avatar
RWarehall: Answer to your question...Yes it did, in Spades!
I am a (poorly orthographied) vegetable, and I agree with this statement ^
It's rather interesting how an editor at a gaming magazine can simultaneously get paid for PR to promote a video game.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/06/23/how-disgraced-blogger-leigh-alexander-torpedoed-a-games-studio/

And if you look, you'll find articles both pre-release and at release for the game in Leigh Alexander's former magazine as well as the usual suspects in other related mags...

All this press, but only 4,000 copies sold...
avatar
RWarehall: It's rather interesting how an editor at a gaming magazine can simultaneously get paid for PR to promote a video game.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/06/23/how-disgraced-blogger-leigh-alexander-torpedoed-a-games-studio/

And if you look, you'll find articles both pre-release and at release for the game in Leigh Alexander's former magazine as well as the usual suspects in other related mags...

All this press, but only 4,000 copies sold...
Ah, the notorious Metacritc gap ... so telling.
avatar
RWarehall: It's rather interesting how an editor at a gaming magazine can simultaneously get paid for PR to promote a video game.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/06/23/how-disgraced-blogger-leigh-alexander-torpedoed-a-games-studio/

And if you look, you'll find articles both pre-release and at release for the game in Leigh Alexander's former magazine as well as the usual suspects in other related mags...

All this press, but only 4,000 copies sold...
avatar
noncompliantgame: Ah, the notorious Metacritc gap ... so telling.
that meltdown was downright embarrassing to watch.
Watch Mojo released a top 10 of artistic video games.

Notice that depression quest and Gone home are not even mentioned.

Now, I would recomend taking anything Watch Mojo says with a grain of salt or evn two. and they missed some true gems. However the general consensus seems to be that what they show is what gamers want from games as art, amazing creations such as Journey and Okami, not hipster crud. Games such as Gone Home and Depression quest are the Revolution 9 and Inner Semiotics of video games, and you know the reception those things got.

https://youtu.be/V3tb0NXWUoI
Post edited June 24, 2015 by LeonardoCornejo
Father of an autistic child shares his opinion on social justice : https://autisticbean.wordpress.com/2015/06/18/the-cruelty-of-strangers/
Really sad to see the stigma people create about this in India. I had some friends with minor learning disabilities in my class and they were bullied to hell. Even sadder to see offended culture leeching off a good cause like autism rights.
low rated
avatar
RWarehall: It's rather interesting how an editor at a gaming magazine can simultaneously get paid for PR to promote a video game.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/06/23/how-disgraced-blogger-leigh-alexander-torpedoed-a-games-studio/

And if you look, you'll find articles both pre-release and at release for the game in Leigh Alexander's former magazine as well as the usual suspects in other related mags...

All this press, but only 4,000 copies sold...
avatar
noncompliantgame: Ah, the notorious Metacritc gap ... so telling.
That's 3 user reviews though - the user 'mostly positive' and metacritic 75/100 seem to line up a bit better over on Steam
http://store.steampowered.com/app/287600/
Unless shenanigans?
avatar
noncompliantgame: Ah, the notorious Metacritc gap ... so telling.
avatar
Fever_Discordia: That's 3 user reviews though - the user 'mostly positive' and metacritic 75/100 seem to line up a bit better over on Steam
http://store.steampowered.com/app/287600/
Unless shenanigans?
Three people, so far, have written reviews but last time I checked there were about 20 ratings.