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keyvin: snip
Except you didn't criticize the paper. You called it out merely for the journal it is in and your unproven claim that psychologists agree video games are linked to violence just because of a 2005 APA policy statement. (Note: there is not this substantial consensus you claim and furthermore these experiments are not getting repeated. Primarily because other psychologists want to do their own studies in order to be published).

For proof of a lack of real consensus, here's an open letter to the APA, including a large number of leading psychologists, who are asking for that policy statement to be revisited due to new evidence; both for new studies and the insufficiency of old studies.
http://www.christopherjferguson.com/APA%20Task%20Force%20Comment1.pdf
And here is the APA response...
http://www.apa.org/pi/families/violent-media.aspx
Does not the fact that a new task force is approved at least lend credence to dispute your claim?

Additionally, here's a study showing specifically how psychological data is not as statistically accurate as claimed...
http://pss.sagepub.com/content/22/11/1359.full.pdf

Edit: And note I'm claiming there is no smoking gun. You are the one claiming it is 100% established there is a causal link. You thus have the burden of proof for your extravagant claim...
Post edited June 08, 2015 by RWarehall
Hey, is there anything new or relevant thigns? Any progress? I read an interview with Juyi Nakajima. I can barelly understand what he said, since English is not his first language and his English grammar is not very developed, but I got his main points and I agree with him on everything.

http://www.meinoskaen.me/gamergate-interviews-yuji-nakajima/

Also, I regret nothing about using the term retard, why should I? Because it offends someone? If you check history you will find out that idiot, stupid, cretin, and many other terms used to insult people with low intellect are actually terms used to reffer to different levels of mental retardation in the past. If we were to police and censor speech based on who it might offend or what group it refers to we would end up removind or editing out most words from the cultural dictionary.
Post edited June 08, 2015 by LeonardoCornejo
The last two big things I know of are, in reverse order, Anita and McIntosh going after the Witcher 3 and Ian Miles Cheung changing his opinion on social justice advocacy. That and some study of raw Tweets which seems to indicate Gamergate is in fact concerned with game journalist ethics as those are the retweeted tweets of the movement.
Post edited June 08, 2015 by RWarehall
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RWarehall: The last two big things I know of are, in reverse order, Anita and McIntosh going after the Witcher 3 and Ian Miles Cheung changing his opinion on social justice advocacy. That and some study of raw Tweets which seems to indicate Gamergate is in fact concerned with game journalist ethics as those are the retweeted tweets of the movement.
As far as I know. Our main concerns are ethical journalism and artistic freedom. ONce those two things are achieved we are done with this.
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RWarehall: The last two big things I know of are, in reverse order, Anita and McIntosh going after the Witcher 3 and Ian Miles Cheung changing his opinion on social justice advocacy. That and some study of raw Tweets which seems to indicate Gamergate is in fact concerned with game journalist ethics as those are the retweeted tweets of the movement.
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LeonardoCornejo: As far as I know. Our main concerns are ethical journalism and artistic freedom. ONce those two things are achieved we are done with this.
Yep. ^This exactly. We're still waiting for Airplay in August to see how that goes.

For those not in the know or don't remember, there is going to be a debate that's going to be live and online in August this year with the SPJ. They want for GamerGate, Neutrals, and "AGG" to be present and say what they can. The group for GG has pretty much been decided at this point but nothing is said that I can see about AGG.
Post edited June 08, 2015 by Arinielle
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LeonardoCornejo: As far as I know. Our main concerns are ethical journalism and artistic freedom. ONce those two things are achieved we are done with this.
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Arinielle: Yep. ^This exactly. We're still waiting for Airplay in August to see how that goes.

For those not in the know or don't remember, there is going to be a debate that's going to be live and online in August this year with the SPJ. They want for GamerGate, Neutrals, and "AGG" to be present and say what they can. The group for GG has pretty much been decided at this point but nothing is said that I can see about AGG.
I forgot about that. My guess is Sarkeesian could be the spokeperson for AGG. She is the one with more reach and seh is always on the spotlight.
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LeonardoCornejo: I forgot about that. My guess is Sarkeesian could be the spokeperson for AGG. She is the one with more reach and seh is always on the spotlight.
But she won't. She never debates anyone. She'll give speeches telling only her side but even her Twitter or YouTube, opposition is blocked. Brianna might do it though. She at least has done interviews with neutral parties like David Pakman.
Post edited June 08, 2015 by RWarehall
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LeonardoCornejo: I forgot about that. My guess is Sarkeesian could be the spokeperson for AGG. She is the one with more reach and seh is always on the spotlight.
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RWarehall: But she won't. She never debates anyone. She'll give speeches telling only her side but even her Twitter or YouTube, opposition is blocked. Brianna would probably do it though.
True, Brianna is one of the few antis with some interest in talking to us. She already did once, and the rest of AGG got mad at her.
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keyvin: snip
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RWarehall: Except you didn't criticize the paper. You called it out merely for the journal it is in and your unproven claim that psychologists agree video games are linked to violence just because of a 2005 APA policy statement. (Note: there is not this substantial consensus you claim and furthermore these experiments are not getting repeated. Primarily because other psychologists want to do their own studies in order to be published).

For proof of a lack of real consensus, here's an open letter to the APA, including a large number of leading psychologists, who are asking for that policy statement to be revisited due to new evidence; both for new studies and the insufficiency of old studies.
http://www.christopherjferguson.com/APA%20Task%20Force%20Comment1.pdf
And here is the APA response...
http://www.apa.org/pi/families/violent-media.aspx
Does not the fact that a new task force is approved at least lend credence to dispute your claim?

Additionally, here's a study showing specifically how psychological data is not as statistically accurate as claimed...
http://pss.sagepub.com/content/22/11/1359.full.pdf

Edit: And note I'm claiming there is no smoking gun. You are the one claiming it is 100% established there is a causal link. You thus have the burden of proof for your extravagant claim...
I am claiming that there is a consensus on a causal link for that 20 to 40 seconds of increased aggression following viewing violent media. Nothing more. I'm not even sure why you are arguing with me now, since my original statement is that we simply do not know if violent media causes violent behavior outside of the short term. It was in response to someone who said it had been proven that it absolutely did not, and he was using the same paper you did to form that opinion.

You understand, that the letter you are citing was written by the author of the paper in question. You might understand from his paper why he has a problem with the APAs statement. He may even be right about it discouraging research. I am glad that the APA will revisit their statement. I doubt however it is going to diminish the consensus on the short term effects of viewing violence. Maybe they will rewrite some of their conclusions to be less forceful, who knows. It also reads like academic complaining about his papers being rejected from professional journals. Which explains why he published in the journal of communications.

There are indeed 275 or so signatures to the letter , but the APA is an association made up of ~85,000 members. That is .3% of total membership, if all signers are members. I'm not a member of that field, but that is on the level of support for climate change opponents in climatology circles, and wayyy back, the support that smoking not causing cancer had. .3% is hardly a challenge to the current consensus.

So to repeat my original point about violence and media - we don't know.
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keyvin: snip
Then you are ignoring and hand-waving away all the media studies which have found no correlation. That seems disingenuous. You refuse to discuss the merits of this study and others and inexplicably claim a "consensus" based on a single study

Here's an article about a study which shows that rather than violence, the increase in aggression appears to be due to frustration. They found that those who were given a tutorial on how to play showed less aggression than those who were mot.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-26921743
This also seems to dispute your claims....

Here's another showing that violence decreases shortly after a new game release...
http://www.timesherald.com/lifestyle/20140930/villanova-professor-violent-video-games-dont-cause-real-life-violence-in-most-cases

So far, you have provided nothing to this discussion, yet I have shown multiple studies which dispute your claims, yet you carry on...
Weird I wrote a response, but it won't post. I even tried to edit it in, and it wouldn't let me!

Linked in that BBC article: http://www.bbc.com/news/education-26049333 - not refuted by the study you linked by the way. Video game playing stunts emotional development...

And here is what the experiment's designers had to say in its relevance to our discusion:

Co-author Prof Richard Ryan, from the University of Rochester, said: "The study is not saying that violent content doesn't affect gamers, but our research suggests that people are not drawn to playing violent games in order to feel aggressive.
The research quoted at the end of the article was cited by a video game exec wasn't even a study on whether games promote violent behavior.

The second article you linked flat out says that some indeed are affected by violence in video games. However, they do not incite tragedies such as sandy hook or columbine. The author of the study is hoping that it is replicated...

Markey would like to see the study, published in the American Psychological Association’s journal of “Psychology and Popular Media Culture,” replicated. Questions remain about why some people are affected by violent video games and some are not, he said. Also, who is likely to be affected is also an issue.

Citing other research, the study said the school shooters described themselves as “angry, mean, depressed, psychotic, unruly, anxious, aggressive and hateful” before the shootings occurred. The research showed that people with a combination of certain traits including being easily upset, indifferent to other people’s feelings and prone to break rules and act without thinking, are most adversely affected by VVGs.

Markey studied a sample of 118 teenagers, having them play VVGs. Those with those traits were more likely to be adversely affected by VVGs.

“The notion that all, or even most, individuals who play violent video games will inevitably become aggressive may be unwarranted,” according to the conclusion in the study. “Instead it appears that it is crucial to consider various personality traits of the person playing the violent video game when predicting whether the violent video games will have adverse effects.”
so, congrats. You just posted evidence that video games stunt emotional development, and that video games provoke violence in some people. Your now providing proof that I'm wrong by providing proof that video games have negative effects.

I'm not posting individual studies because that's stupid. Its not how science works, its not how scientists develop their views, and it isn't how individuals should develop theirs. Studies are not magic totems, where you cite the conclusion of the author and your automatically right. Individual articles by themselves are interesting, and they raise posibilities, but the press has a bad habit of taking bad articles and presenting it as fact. There are kids dying of pertussis and measles now because the press sensationalized an article in the lancet that hadn't yet been reproduced.

Edit - unmatched quote ]!

As far as the consensus, its backed by far more than one study. It's a body of research that has its roots in boppo the clown from the 1960s!
Post edited June 08, 2015 by keyvin
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keyvin: I'm not posting individual studies because that's stupid. Its not how science works, its not how scientists develop their views, and it isn't how individuals should develop theirs. Studies are not magic totems, where you cite the conclusion of the author and your automatically right. Individual articles by themselves are interesting, and they raise posibilities, but the press has a bad habit of taking bad articles and presenting it as fact. There are kids dying of pertussis and measles now because the press sensationalized an article in the lancet that hadn't yet been reproduced.
Quite frankly, you are an idiot. You call ME stupid for citing and reading actual studies? All you've done all fucking day is claim you know things which clearly you don't. You know shit about science and shit about studies.

All you are doing is trolling...
The APA re-opened the case based on what you call a terrible study because you don't like the journal it was published in. Well guess what, the APA apparently likes that stufy.. Are they idiots now too? Are they stupid? Or are you so much smarter than them? Seriously, get your head out of your ass.

From the authors of the first study...

The researchers say that the findings offer an important contribution to the debate about the effects of violent video games. Ryan says that many critics of video games have been premature in their conclusions that violent video games cause aggression. “It’s a complicated area, and people have simplistic views,” he explains, noting that nonviolent games like Tetris or Candy Crush can leave players as, if not more, aggressive than games with violence, if they’re poorly designed or too difficult.
You also seem to 'conveniently" omit this quote from the author.

"While, after playing violent video games, some people might be more likely to act like “jerks,” that does not mean their behavior rises to the level of violence, said Markey, who has been doing research on media for 10 years. It’s “quite a leap” to say that violent video games led to the horrific Sandy Hook or Columbine shootings, for example, he said."
Case closed.

You are nothing more than a self-righteous social justice idiot who thinks his "side" is so right about everything that he can spout shit out of his ass and call it golden. All you do is take things out of context. Where is your so-called PROOF that there is a causal link to violence in video games? Oh yeah, you think its STUPID to reference studies. I hope you go back to your Candy Crush or Tetris which the first author thinks causes more frustration...
Post edited June 08, 2015 by RWarehall
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Fever_Discordia: But GTA V IS "art considered unsuitable for children", hence the '18' badge on the front of the box and, as I've previously shown, Target were marketing it children...
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LiquidOxygen80: Which is actually illegal if true. Selling mature games to children carries some hefty penalties.
I meant 'presented as toys for children' as in marketed as something adults might want to buy to give to children, not as in selling to children directly
Although it would be interesting to know what the sales culture is like in those stores if a kid had saved up his pocket money / allowance and tried to buy an '18' game directly - I can only assume the sales staff are more clued up and better trained than the marketers when it comes to that sort of thing...
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Fever_Discordia: snip
Fever, nothing in that ad said GTA V was a toy for anyone's children. So quit lying about it!
The caption read..."The Best Toy Prices in Australia...Guaranteed!" Nowhere does it say buy GTA V for your kids. But social justice idiots like yourself just want to take everything out of context.

The ad showed three boxes. One with action figures, for boys and girls; one with a pink pig plushy; for young children; and GTA V; for adults. This makes perfect sense as its only a one page newspaper ad. And conveniently, the whole bottom half of the ad is cut off on the picture.

I wonder why Leigh would only show the top half of the ad. Could it be the bottom half doesn't fit her narrative?

Because we all know Target is just a children's toy store, right?
Post edited June 08, 2015 by RWarehall
Vain seems to have gone underground to protect his rep and it co-relates to this short term surge of misinformed game-hating wanna-be progressiveness crusaders. I cry patriarchy.