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Fever_Discordia: Wait, what's wrong with kawaii? It's just cute - Japanese style
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawaii
Like that jet with the Pokémon livery...

"In 2014 the Collins English Dictionary in the United Kingdom entered "kawaii" into their then latest edition, defining as a "Japanese artistic and cultural style that emphasises the quality of cuteness, using bright colours and characters with a childlike appearance."
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LeonardoCornejo: You are dense or something. It is not a legit tag to classify a game.
It's not a Genre definition but not all tags are supposed to be definitions of Genre - this one defines art style, I would say that it could be legitimately be applied to 100% Orange Juice and Street Puzzle Fighter because of the SD versions of the Street Fighter characters, off the top of my head...

While 'Illuminati' is about setting and story line, maybe 'Conspiracy theory' would have been a better tag but I would say legit games to get the 'Illuminati' tag would be Broken Sword and Deus Ex
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RWarehall: As I said yesterday, Fever will just continue to argue the same point over and over again, day after day. All just to argue. Notice how Fever dodged the question whether he even played Witcher 1 or 2 or read any of the books...

So we have more unqualified gits who know nothing about any of the games supporting a clickbait review...

But let me add Adrian Chmielarz's direct rebuttal to the article you posted as well as other detractors, explaining exactly how they are wrong. In fact it includes a great explanation about objectivity vs. subjectivity...

https://medium.com/@adrianchm/the-boy-who-cried-white-wolf-part-2-5b331951a7
I didn't intentially dodge any question - I don't recall that one being asked
But no, no I haven't as it happens

I may post a rebuttal to the rebuttal at the weekend if I get the time and I'm bored
Hmm.. it IS the Canadian GP this weekend though so no promises...
Post edited June 03, 2015 by Fever_Discordia
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LeonardoCornejo: You are dense or something. It is not a legit tag to classify a game.
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Fever_Discordia: It's not a Genre definition but not all tags are supposed to be definitions of Genre - this one defines art style, I would say that it could be legitimately be applied to 100% Orange Juice and Street Puzzle Fighter because of the SD versions of the Street Fighter characters, off the top of my head...

While 'Illuminati' is about setting and story line, maybe 'Conspiracy theory' would have been a better tag but I would say legit games to get the 'Illuminati' tag would be Broken Sword and Deus Ex
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RWarehall: As I said yesterday, Fever will just continue to argue the same point over and over again, day after day. All just to argue. Notice how Fever dodged the question whether he even played Witcher 1 or 2 or read any of the books...

So we have more unqualified gits who know nothing about any of the games supporting a clickbait review...

But let me add Adrian Chmielarz's direct rebuttal to the article you posted as well as other detractors, explaining exactly how they are wrong. In fact it includes a great explanation about objectivity vs. subjectivity...

https://medium.com/@adrianchm/the-boy-who-cried-white-wolf-part-2-5b331951a7
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Fever_Discordia: I didn't intentially dodge any question - I don't recall that one being asked
But no, no I haven't as it happens

I may post a rebuttal to the rebuttal at the weekend if I get the time and I'm bored
Hmm.. it IS the Canadian GP this weekend though so no promises...
Still a walking simulator is a non game. Why would I want to simulate something I can do in real life with the same level of excitement. Seriously, Gone Home is an example of how awful pretentious games are.
And that's my point...how the heck are you arguing to the sincerity of that review with absolutely NO knowledge of the game series nor books? I've read all the books except the recent prequel (which I'm not sure has an English translation) and played the first two games. Knowing the books and knowing the first two games made me knowledgeable about the content. The explorations of class struggle (nobles and common people), racism/religious intolerance (dwarves and elves) and the focus on injustice.

This knowledge made me know that Arthur Gies was talking out of his ass. But inexplicably, you seem to argue his case knowing absolutely NOTHING about the games or books...

Please explain to me how arguing for days about something you are clueless about isn't trollish behavior?

Edit: Can we please stop the Gone Home bashing. Just calling it a walking simulator is understating what it is. My point was it clearly should not deserve a 10 out of 10. It is poorly optimized, I kept getting stutter if I turned too quick and had it completely crash to desktop once. The progress is very repetitive. It takes only two hours to complete. It mostly lacks any game play elements except for find the next piece of paper nearby with a code.

That said, it did a great job creating a spooky atmosphere (now why it needed a spooky atmosphere is a bit inexplicable). It's inclusion of playable music was a nice touch. The narrative is pretty decent although a bit generic teen angst (and I disliked aspects of the ending). The detail in the house is pretty amazing as well. Good for a bit of nostalgia. There are things which it did well, the problem was the package as a whole is rather inconsistent.

If it were optimized, if there were even a few intelligent puzzles that didn't involve clicking on another nearby piece of paper to at least add some more variety to the exercise, if the writing were worked on to make the ending be more actually triumphant and if your character had anything to do with the story at all given you are the sister (besides a trophy with your name on it and a room which was once yours), I think it showed promise to be a very good if not great game. Instead it just came off as a bit unfinished...
Post edited June 03, 2015 by RWarehall
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RWarehall: And that's my point...how the heck are you arguing to the sincerity of that review with absolutely NO knowledge of the game series nor books? I've read all the books except the recent prequel (which I'm not sure has an English translation) and played the first two games. Knowing the books and knowing the first two games made me knowledgeable about the content. The explorations of class struggle (nobles and common people), racism/religious intolerance (dwarves and elves) and the focus on injustice.

This knowledge made me know that Arthur Gies was talking out of his ass. But inexplicably, you seem to argue his case knowing absolutely NOTHING about the games or books...

Please explain to me how arguing for days about something you are clueless about isn't trollish behavior?
It is not trollish behavior, it is SJW behavior. We have seen it before with the likes of Sarkeesian and Mcintosh who also said lies about The Witcher series. By the way, CDP should DMCA them or something if they show footage of their games on those godawful Feminist Frequency videos. They should deffed their IP.
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LeonardoCornejo: It is not trollish behavior, it is SJW behavior. We have seen it before with the likes of Sarkeesian and Mcintosh who also said lies about The Witcher series. By the way, CDP should DMCA them or something if they show footage of their games on those godawful Feminist Frequency videos. They should deffed their IP.
I find what Anita does as trollish as well. She attacks games without accounting for context which defeats her points. She seems to be capitalizing on this idea that games could be better and more racially inclusive. I think most people agree with this, but then she cherry-picks out things that aren't even an issue and dashes it in "patriarchy" and "misogyny" dust.

Some day I'd like to see someone give honest, thought out examples of ways games can improve. With specific examples that aren't highly cherry-picked and misleading. Instead, that progress is stifled by Anita's idiotic rhetoric which has stolen the center of attention.
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RWarehall: And that's my point...how the heck are you arguing to the sincerity of that review with absolutely NO knowledge of the game series nor books? I've read all the books except the recent prequel (which I'm not sure has an English translation) and played the first two games. Knowing the books and knowing the first two games made me knowledgeable about the content. The explorations of class struggle (nobles and common people), racism/religious intolerance (dwarves and elves) and the focus on injustice.

This knowledge made me know that Arthur Gies was talking out of his ass. But inexplicably, you seem to argue his case knowing absolutely NOTHING about the games or books...
Again the vast majority of my posts have been to correct your (the collective 'your') almost willful mis-readings of Mr Gie's words
I'm sure there's lots of reasons to nail him to a tree, take the part where he finds it 'abhorrent' that the wife beater gets to tell his side - yes there is weirdness in that reaction, why shouldn't you hear both sides if you are asked to judge?
But you guys were saying that Gies implied or suggested or outright SAID that the wife-beater's side is the only side you get to hear which is blatantly false a, gross misreading of Gies words and very irritating!
Post edited June 03, 2015 by Fever_Discordia
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Fever_Discordia: Again the vast majority of my posts have been to correct your (the collective 'your') almost willful mis-readings of Mr Gie's words
I'm sure there's lots of reasons to nail him to a tree, take the part where he finds it 'abhorrent' that the wife beater gets to tell his side - yes there is weirdness in that reaction, why shouldn't you hear both sides if you are asked to judge?
But you guys were saying that Gies implied or suggested or outright SAID that the wife-beater's side is the only side you get to hear which is blatantly false a, gross misreading of Gies words and very irritating!
Strawmanning again. I don't recall anyone saying that at all. I took umbrage at the fact Gies calls the game "misogynistic" merely because it allows Geralt to choose a more sympathetic response. In other words, Arthur Gies wants that choice removed so that the only thing Geralt can do is condemn him...at least that is the logical conclusion to his complaint...

You seem to just want to argue to argue. This is the very definition of trolling. There is no "discussion" coming from you at all. Just attempts to poke holes...
Post edited June 03, 2015 by RWarehall
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LeonardoCornejo: It is not trollish behavior, it is SJW behavior. We have seen it before with the likes of Sarkeesian and Mcintosh who also said lies about The Witcher series. By the way, CDP should DMCA them or something if they show footage of their games on those godawful Feminist Frequency videos. They should deffed their IP.
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RWarehall: I find what Anita does as trollish as well. She attacks games without accounting for context which defeats her points. She seems to be capitalizing on this idea that games could be better and more racially inclusive. I think most people agree with this, but then she cherry-picks out things that aren't even an issue and dashes it in "patriarchy" and "misogyny" dust.

Some day I'd like to see someone give honest, thought out examples of ways games can improve. With specific examples that aren't highly cherry-picked and misleading. Instead, that progress is stifled by Anita's idiotic rhetoric which has stolen the center of attention.
Certainly she does more harm than good with what she says, but she gets tons of money for it. Not to mention I am no longer sure if her views are actualy hers or McIntosh' views.
Liana talks about a sinkhole: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTnaNzpGoQY
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RWarehall: I find what Anita does as trollish as well. She attacks games without accounting for context which defeats her points. She seems to be capitalizing on this idea that games could be better and more racially inclusive. I think most people agree with this, but then she cherry-picks out things that aren't even an issue and dashes it in "patriarchy" and "misogyny" dust.

Some day I'd like to see someone give honest, thought out examples of ways games can improve. With specific examples that aren't highly cherry-picked and misleading. Instead, that progress is stifled by Anita's idiotic rhetoric which has stolen the center of attention.
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LeonardoCornejo: Certainly she does more harm than good with what she says, but she gets tons of money for it. Not to mention I am no longer sure if her views are actualy hers or McIntosh' views.
they never were. Even many of her tweets are parroted from fullmcintosh. That guy is a loony and she parrots everything he says.
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RWarehall: We have developers such as Adrian Chmielarz explaining exactly what is wrong with the article...
https://medium.com/@adrianchm/the-boy-who-cried-white-wolf-on-polygon-s-the-witcher-3-review-f7ac8d7f0a5

Here's Steven Russell writing for Load the Game going into specifics of how misleading the claims Arthur Gies makes...
http://www.loadthegame.com/2015/05/28/sexism-witcher-3-polygon-article-got-wrong/

Here's Jeremy Conrad an author at Furiousfanboys...
http://furiousfanboys.com/2015/05/the-witcher-3-shows-how-polygon-shouldnt-review-games-editorial/

And finally we have Ian Miles Cheong, editor of Gameranx and until recently completely anti-GG,,,
http://stillgray.com/post/119992928665/what-games-mean-to-me

All of these people find great fault with Arthur Gies and Polygon's "review". All of them call it out for exaggeration and being wrong...

Or you can believe Fever Discordia who has admitted to coming to this thread "just to argue". Admitted not even reading the links before writing posts arguing against us (and called an SJW site an MRA site based on the name alone while pretending to have read the article). The same cis-white male who adnits to not having played Witcher 3. Have you even played Witcher 1 or 2 or read any of the books? Who is certain Arthur Gies is being honest and not taking things out of context....

Yup, Listen to and Believe Women (Supporters)...um...just because...despite the fact they know nothing of the topic...
ON NOES REVIEWERS DISAGREE THE WORLD IS ENDING. Are you serious?

Dude. Reviews are subjective. Literally, they are there to give someone's opinion. There is no such thing as an 'objective' review, it is actually impossible (unless you are saying that a spec sheet = review).

Some people have one take on a game. Different people have a different take. You agree with one group and disagree with the other group...and then try to claim the people you disagree with are 'wrong' because they have a different opinion. What?
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Fever_Discordia: Again the vast majority of my posts have been to correct your (the collective 'your') almost willful mis-readings of Mr Gie's words
I'm sure there's lots of reasons to nail him to a tree, take the part where he finds it 'abhorrent' that the wife beater gets to tell his side - yes there is weirdness in that reaction, why shouldn't you hear both sides if you are asked to judge?
But you guys were saying that Gies implied or suggested or outright SAID that the wife-beater's side is the only side you get to hear which is blatantly false a, gross misreading of Gies words and very irritating!
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RWarehall: Strawmanning again. I don't recall anyone saying that at all. I took umbrage at the fact Gies calls the game "misogynistic" merely because it allows Geralt to choose a more sympathetic response. In other words, Arthur Gies wants that choice removed so that the only thing Geralt can do is condemn him...at least that is the logical conclusion to his complaint...

You seem to just want to argue to argue. This is the very definition of trolling. There is no "discussion" coming from you at all. Just attempts to poke holes...
Takes one to know one.

Seriously - you're not doing very well in the 'listening to others and having a discussion' ratings either.
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RWarehall: And that's my point...how the heck are you arguing to the sincerity of that review with absolutely NO knowledge of the game series nor books? I've read all the books except the recent prequel (which I'm not sure has an English translation) and played the first two games. Knowing the books and knowing the first two games made me knowledgeable about the content. The explorations of class struggle (nobles and common people), racism/religious intolerance (dwarves and elves) and the focus on injustice.

This knowledge made me know that Arthur Gies was talking out of his ass. But inexplicably, you seem to argue his case knowing absolutely NOTHING about the games or books...

Please explain to me how arguing for days about something you are clueless about isn't trollish behavior?
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LeonardoCornejo: It is not trollish behavior, it is SJW behavior. We have seen it before with the likes of Sarkeesian and Mcintosh who also said lies about The Witcher series. By the way, CDP should DMCA them or something if they show footage of their games on those godawful Feminist Frequency videos. They should deffed their IP.
That's called DMCA abuse and is illegal. Art critique falls under fair use and trying to DMCA it would result in terrible publicity at least, and legal action and worst.
Post edited June 03, 2015 by Gilozard
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hedwards: This thread is still going? O,o
Again, given some of the more batshit things that some people continue banging on about these days, the fact that this thread is still going isn't all that unexpected.
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RWarehall: For Remember Me to get the same review rating as Witcher 3? Seems completely wrong. And I'm not even going to talk about the 2 hours to completely explore everything of Gone Home and tedious letter clicking getting a perfect 10 rating...
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227: I suppose that's a problem with ratings in general—judging a shorter, more linear standalone game against a big, open-world conclusion of a trilogy is one of those things a simple "one size fits all, out of five or ten scale" will never be suited to. Thanks for the clarification, by the way.

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Fever_Discordia: Well, here's some random student chick writing for 'Girls on Games':
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227: He responded to that one point-by-point: https://medium.com/@adrianchm/the-boy-who-cried-white-wolf-part-2-5b331951a7

Incidentally, you calling her "some random student chick" is more misogynistic than the entirety of Witcher 3.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and she hasn't played the game either. Funny coincidence, that.
Encouraging the player to participate in simulated abuse is more misogynistic than calling someone a 'random student chick'? I think you need to head back to school and pay more attention to the dictionary.
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227: \ I loved Remember Me. Great soundtrack, interesting combat system, and Nilin is badass. Definitely not an "SJW darling," though. I just checked Polygon and Giant Bomb's reviews of the game and neither bothered pointing out that she's a strong, mixed-race female character despite that being basically everything they could possibly ask for. Of course, failing to mention that isn't really a surprise given the fact that their narrative relies on the nonexistence of such portrayals, but it's still sad to see.
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RWarehall: Allow me to clarify...mediocre, review-wise, which means not one of the 10 most polished AAA games of the year. I love a lot of indie titles because I like what they do on a shoestring budget. I thought Escape Goat was cute and really well designed for playability for example, but a game like that will not garner 9's or 10's nor really should it when compared to games with a budget a 100 times more. Remember Me has an average review rating of 65 on Metacritic, which isn't bad for a less-polished than AAA indie game. So now consider that vs. Witcher 3 and the amount on content, the graphics, the vast story and sidequests, the whole package. For Remember Me to get the same review rating as Witcher 3? Seems completely wrong. And I'm not even going to talk about the 2 hours to completely explore everything of Gone Home and tedious letter clicking getting a perfect 10 rating...

It's kinda like comparing Wigan to Real Madrid or Barcelona. You can be a Wigan fan, and admire their play, but if you had to rate them, you just can't rate them as good as the "big boys".
Why not?

Ratings are all about the reviewer's criteria (or aggregate if there's multiple reviewers). If the reviewer is doing a genre-specific comparison, hates large RPGS, thinks all characters should wear blue, whatever, than it's totally fair for them to rate a smaller game higher than the Witcher 3. Ratings are a way to put a number on 'How much I liked it'.

Reviews aren't objective, and the more they try the less useful they are. I'd rather get a well-written opinion from someone who hates the game but discusses why than a review that tries to paper over the author's opinion with bland phrases in an attempt to sound like it's not subjective.
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hedwards: This thread is still going? O,o
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Jonesy89: Again, given some of the more batshit things that some people continue banging on about these days, the fact that this thread is still going isn't all that unexpected.
This thread is probably going to keep going until there aren't any more people who:

1) Don't understand how art critique works or can't tolerate anyone disagreeing with them, and
2) Want to forcibly prevent actual discussion or change

So yeah, it's gonna still be active until the sun goes supernova.
Post edited June 03, 2015 by Gilozard
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Gilozard: Encouraging the player to participate in simulated abuse is more misogynistic than calling someone a 'random student chick'? I think you need to head back to school and pay more attention to the dictionary.
Since the part you quoted was referring to The Witcher 3, I would like to ask where the game encourages you, the player, to take part in the simulated abuse of women that you are referring to. If you are afraid of something being a spoiler, a quest name alone will suffice and let me know what incident you are talking about.

The closest I know of is the scene regarding the fingernails that Polygon points out, but that is highly taken out of context. The female character selflessly chose to do this to aid another, as is her nature, and the game by no means encourages the behavior of torture. In fact, the game gives ample opportunity to prevent or stop this abuse through multiple dialogue options. For my playthrough, the event never even happened. Additionally, should the scene play out, Geralt himself is not actively participating (he's in another room) and you see just how strong this woman really is by her following actions.

Is there another scene I am aware of where Geralt is encouraged to partake in the simulated abuse of women, as you claim?
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RWarehall: We have developers such as Adrian Chmielarz explaining exactly what is wrong with the article...
https://medium.com/@adrianchm/the-boy-who-cried-white-wolf-on-polygon-s-the-witcher-3-review-f7ac8d7f0a5

Here's Steven Russell writing for Load the Game going into specifics of how misleading the claims Arthur Gies makes...
http://www.loadthegame.com/2015/05/28/sexism-witcher-3-polygon-article-got-wrong/

Here's Jeremy Conrad an author at Furiousfanboys...
http://furiousfanboys.com/2015/05/the-witcher-3-shows-how-polygon-shouldnt-review-games-editorial/

And finally we have Ian Miles Cheong, editor of Gameranx and until recently completely anti-GG,,,
http://stillgray.com/post/119992928665/what-games-mean-to-me

All of these people find great fault with Arthur Gies and Polygon's "review". All of them call it out for exaggeration and being wrong...

Or you can believe Fever Discordia who has admitted to coming to this thread "just to argue". Admitted not even reading the links before writing posts arguing against us (and called an SJW site an MRA site based on the name alone while pretending to have read the article). The same cis-white male who adnits to not having played Witcher 3. Have you even played Witcher 1 or 2 or read any of the books? Who is certain Arthur Gies is being honest and not taking things out of context....

Yup, Listen to and Believe Women (Supporters)...um...just because...despite the fact they know nothing of the topic...
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Gilozard: ON NOES REVIEWERS DISAGREE THE WORLD IS ENDING. Are you serious?

Dude. Reviews are subjective. Literally, they are there to give someone's opinion. There is no such thing as an 'objective' review, it is actually impossible (unless you are saying that a spec sheet = review).

Some people have one take on a game. Different people have a different take. You agree with one group and disagree with the other group...and then try to claim the people you disagree with are 'wrong' because they have a different opinion. What?
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RWarehall: Strawmanning again. I don't recall anyone saying that at all. I took umbrage at the fact Gies calls the game "misogynistic" merely because it allows Geralt to choose a more sympathetic response. In other words, Arthur Gies wants that choice removed so that the only thing Geralt can do is condemn him...at least that is the logical conclusion to his complaint...

You seem to just want to argue to argue. This is the very definition of trolling. There is no "discussion" coming from you at all. Just attempts to poke holes...
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Gilozard: Takes one to know one.

Seriously - you're not doing very well in the 'listening to others and having a discussion' ratings either.
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LeonardoCornejo: It is not trollish behavior, it is SJW behavior. We have seen it before with the likes of Sarkeesian and Mcintosh who also said lies about The Witcher series. By the way, CDP should DMCA them or something if they show footage of their games on those godawful Feminist Frequency videos. They should deffed their IP.
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Gilozard: That's called DMCA abuse and is illegal. Art critique falls under fair use and trying to DMCA it would result in terrible publicity at least, and legal action and worst.
It is not DMCA abuse because 1) They could claim plagiarism since Sarkeesina never uses her own footage. 2) They can claim defamation since her statements are false.