Wow, now one even gets downvoted here for saying something against regional pricing, sweet.

Yeah, he has lost his patience completely and it's only natural seeing how few good intentions are floating around here anymore. Sooner or later everyone here either goes with the destructive flow or bows out.
I think this thread has a lot of very useful evidence thanks to dragonbeast and 227 which gathered quite a lot but sadly no one will get to see all those links anymore between all the flaming.

Kurina is also very level headed. I feel bad saying it to Rwarehall, but I do think he should take a rest :(

Rwarehall, take a break from the trenches mate, it's really getting to you. We all need shore leave from time to time heh? Let's not become what we are fighting, it makes victory hollow...

I think part of the issue is a loss of innocence in a culture war that didn't need to happen.

Another well thought out and reasoned response. I like especially how you responded to each of the points I made.

Seriously, what is up with this link?

https://archive.is/WtK2

It looks like its about some Japanese cosplay or something? Did you even look at the links you posted?
What I find most interesting about TB is that he makes such a big deal about disclosing conflicts of interest and how people should disclose any kind of friendship when reporting on them, and then reports about Jim Stirling without disclosing his friendship with him. Of course I didn't hear any #gg'ers call him out on that at all.

And where is your response to mine? You never give any, then insist that people are ignoring your dozen points that are generally meaningless to the discussion. This is exactly what you have been doing for months.

I have demonstrated a conflict of interest. Reasonable people can at least see my point. Reporters shouldn't be reporting on the people they hang out with.

As to Jim Sterling and Total Biscuit, what friendship? Show me where they have been going out for beers together or hanging out as friends and Tweeting about it. That is the sort of friendship Nathan Grayson, Robin Arnott, Jared Rosen etc, have had with Zoe Quinn. Its possible this is happening, so show me, I'm just not aware of this connection. In fact, I seem to recall them being fairly at odds with each other a numbers of times.

You constantly make these assertions with nothing to back them up, but when we provide evidence you either make up excuses or change the topic.

Here's the thing. Some of us are here to discuss the truth as best as it can be determined, while apparently others seem to have more ideological motives. Either that or you are more interested in "winning" the debate. Either way, discussing anything with you seems to be a fruitless endeavor.

Correct link: https://archive.is/WtK25

Where is my response to "you are full of shit"? Here it is. I don't care what you think of me. I don't intend to detail what I think of you other than to say that I pity you and I really think you should talk to a professional about your anger issues. If you get this upset about discussions in a forum, I would hate to see how things are going for you in real life. I genuinely mean this. You should talk to someone.

If you don't know anything about Jim Sterling and TB's friendship, don't embarrass yourself by implying one doesn't exist. They have absolute had beers together and hung out as friends. It doesn't bother me that he doesn't disclose that, I am consistent in that I don't think it is necessary for anyone to mention they went out for a beer with someone. For the record, that wasn't a comment directed at you.

To suggest that one cannot be friends with someone and also be at odds with that person a number of times is an intriguing insight to your personality, and probably explains your reaction to the people who have disagreed with you on this forum

I'm not sure what assertions you're talking about. Its hard to respond to such a broad comment. i explained in my previous post why the links you provided.

It seems to me that it is the people who are constantly shown as being mistaken or incorrect about things complain about others winning debates.

Yeah, that's a particularly damaging article. Again, I'm more interested in the Japanese one. What's going on there?


I'm not sure you understand my point.

The assertion by #gg'ers (prior to them focussing on the evils of SJWs and feminists in the media) was that people should disclose any friendship whenever they report about someone.

TB has reported about Jim Sterling's conflicts with various devs who have DMCA'd him. When doing so, he didn't disclose that he was fairly close friends with Jim, that they often spoke and had regular "youtube star self help sessions" together or that they have drunk alcohol together, which RWarehall seems to suggest is a sign of a particularly close friendship (I've got a heap more friends than I realise apparently, being a borderline alcoholic myself). According to #gg'ers this is a conflict of interest that must be disclosed. In his reports TB (rightly in my view) sided with Jim Sterling and (rightly in my view) didn't feel he needed to disclose his friendship with Jim Sterling, but perhaps he was only doing this because of this perceived conflict of interest?

Again, my issue is the not that I think the friendship is an actual conflict of interest that should be disclosed, but that TB and others supporters of #gg have called for those conflicts to be disclosed by others, but TB failed to do so himself. Just an intriguing insight into his personality, but one that is often demonstrated in his interactions with others in podcasts, etc.

You assert this, but where is the proof? You don't have any. I did a quick search, nothing stands out. Nowhere to I see anyone claiming they are friends. And even if one time at a convention they sat together for a beer, that is different from a personal friendship. Zoe Quinn and Nathan Grayson were hanging out together outside of their professional lives. That is a conflict. Such conflicts are supposed to be avoided, and if unavoidable, disclosed. Instead, Mr. Grayson felt it appropriate to feature his friend at the top of his Greenlight article and strongly defend his friend in the Game Jam article onto of other less questionable mentions. That is something that violates every journalistic professional code of ethics. Strangely enough, YOU are the one who was cherry-picking that same code of ethics in your arguments earlier. But apparently you feel you can choose to overlook one of the most basic tenets out-of-hand when its convenient for your argument. Hand-waved away because you don't see it as a problem. The professionals think its a problem. They are far more trustworthy than your word.

You ask what assertions? Assertions like TB and Jim Sterling being personal friends. As I said, prove it.

As to the Japanese link, the "5" got cut off of the link, no idea what that Japanese stuff is or why someone might have archived it.

I wouldn't call that a conflict of interest. A conflict of interest is a situation in which someone can corrupt an individual's primary goal - a reviewer of video games being friends with a video game designer for example. Reporting on someone not related to your primary goal isn't neccessarily a conflict of interest.

so some updates:

FBI still investigating GGinDC bomb threat. I advise whoever did that to move to Mexico. (Sending bomb threats in central DC, they don't joke about that)

gamergates actions to draw the SPJ attention have worked, as we have indeed drawn their attention and they offer session. GG reaction to a chance of fair debate is overwhelmingly positive.
While I do not yet posses official comment from these people, CH sommers, Milo and Sargon are being look ad as strong contenders for the debate.

A few weeks ago Milo offered to donate 10000$ to any charity should anita debate him at E3, no reply so far

Joss wheadon, who sided against gg and with feminists, has been driven off twitter by said feminists who were offended at 'age of ultron'. Ironic how only a few months ago he was mocking the fact that gg is upset by the "i'm offended by those things" culture, now got harassed and death threats from offended feminists

It's a common strawman for anti-gg to define conflict of interest as anything and everything and then tear that down. Sorry, but I'm not falling for it.

For those wanting to know more, check out this blog by Michael Koretzky, a board member of SPJ. It is a pretty general article about the gathering he is planning, but there is a choice little quote that I think is interesting. People are beginning to see that your regular gamer, not the trolls that mainstream media love to focus on, are actually fairly moderate people who just want a voice in all this mess. They aren't doxxers, stalkers, terrorists, or anything else. The recent gathering of GG in DC even helps to show how diverse the group can be, as there was a wide mix of people from all ages, races, and sexual orientations. It was not a meeting of all cisgendered white men with neckbeards as people want others to believe.

I feel like I need to include [url=https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CEMd-X8VAAA_TzU.jpg:large]this image[/url] I saw on Twitter yesterday. How anyone can defend this sort of behavior I will never know. Even though the image has nothing to do directly with gamers, it is the same "crowd" that is vehemently going after them, yet gamers are considered the hate group instead.

* Sorry I forgot to post the blog link originally ><

Woah, this image is exactly how I imagine a "hate storm".
Didn't those people learn in school how to criticize something in a civilized way?
It's like someone rattled a hornets nest and I always get this feeling with those people.

I don't know what he did to the character, but no piece of fiction is reason enough for something like this. It's like those people either don't have real problems in the real world or just live to hate.
Imho this character wasn't very interesting in the comics already and even less in the previous Avengers movies anyway, of course Scarlett Johansson's notoriously bad acting isn't helping.
They should be more enraged about what they did to Storm from the X-Men btw. It was a really fascinating African (deep black) character and most of the time leader of the most important team with lots of development and dominance and in the movies she is a shy small mulatto that has nothing to say at all.
I always wonder how they've gotten her through the otherwise quite racist comics code authority's approval system.

It amazes me how easily one side can turn on itself at any perceived misstep.

Horses to be held.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/joss-whedon-on-leaving-twitter#.rix2PVMq8