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fronzelneekburm: Guess who's absent from the mailing list: Leigh "I AM games journalism!" Alexander (...)
Hold on... she wrote the first "gamers are dead" article. The rest sprung up shortly afterwards... Were they simply reading the articles of their peers and rehashing the same ideas themselves, or is there some other channel we aren't aware of?
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fronzelneekburm: Guess who's absent from the mailing list: Leigh "I AM games journalism!" Alexander (...)
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Vestin: Hold on... she wrote the first "gamers are dead" article. The rest sprung up shortly afterwards... Were they simply reading the articles of their peers and rehashing the same ideas themselves, or is there some other channel we aren't aware of?
Clearly this.
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Emob78: They spend most of their free time wandering around apologizing to random women for having been born with a rape weapon... I mean penis.
I hope most of these women file sexual harassment charges.
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fronzelneekburm: Moar:

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/21/GameJournoPros-we-reveal-every-journalist-on-the-list

http://yiannopoulos.net/2014/09/22/new-gamejourno-pro-leak-the-email-summaries/

Guess who's absent from the mailing list: Leigh "I AM games journalism!" Alexander and Ian Miles "Rex Exitum/Sol Invictus/Turbofeminist" Cheong.

No wonder these two have been exceptionally loud on this issue. Guess they were just desperate to get their gaming journo overlords to take note.
Is this like the celebrity nude picture leak then?
Speaking of political agendas, i think someone should start some kind of game jam where the aim is to make the the most politically-incorrect, offend as many "oppressed" groups as possible. Some actual great games could come out of that.
Post edited September 22, 2014 by keithdrop
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fronzelneekburm: Moar:

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/21/GameJournoPros-we-reveal-every-journalist-on-the-list

http://yiannopoulos.net/2014/09/22/new-gamejourno-pro-leak-the-email-summaries/

Guess who's absent from the mailing list: Leigh "I AM games journalism!" Alexander and Ian Miles "Rex Exitum/Sol Invictus/Turbofeminist" Cheong.

No wonder these two have been exceptionally loud on this issue. Guess they were just desperate to get their gaming journo overlords to take note.
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keithdrop: Is this like the celebrity nude picture leak then?
Speaking of political agendas, i think someone should start some kind of game jam where the aim is to make the the most politically-incorrect, offend as many "oppressed" groups as possible. Some actual great games could come out of that.
That game already exists. It's called Postal 2 :P

Seriously, I'm not even being snarky. I'm certain that's exactly what they set out to do.
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TwilightBard: Why oppose the Gamergate movement like people have? Why try to paint the movement as misogynistic, racist, that we just want our toys to be our toys and no one else can play in the sandbox (Sandbox, seriously it's a fucking beach bigger then the coast of North and South America put together). What do people get out of this, what do people get from the twitter fights, and the circling wagons? Why is it so impossible to get people to accept this, and why has one subgroup who wasn't even the prime focus of this start jumping in like it has?

I...don't know. The only thing I can see is that they lose something if games journalism is forced to adhere to a code of ethics? That they want to desperately claim that Gamers are horrible people for some other reason? This is the thing that doesn't make any sense to me, in fact it's the one thing that makes the least sense. I would have thought that everyone benefits from journalists that are professional and ethical, and articles that are well researched and unbiased. Am I missing something? Please tell me if I am because I can't understand it.
I think having their swag taken away is a very real fear. Also, regarding the first paragraph, don't discount the idea that the journalists aren't "painting" anyone as anything but that they genuinely believe their opponents are racist/sexist/whatever-ist and that they're fighting a battle to save gaming's soul and will be remembered by future generations as "being on the right side of history" and they're the last sane bastion against an insane world and so forth. Self-righteousness is a powerful thing.
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keithdrop: Is this like the celebrity nude picture leak then?
Speaking of political agendas, i think someone should start some kind of game jam where the aim is to make the the most politically-incorrect, offend as many "oppressed" groups as possible. Some actual great games could come out of that.
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jefequeso: That game already exists. It's called Postal 2 :P

Seriously, I'm not even being snarky. I'm certain that's exactly what they set out to do.
Yes, Postal 2, but even more politically incorrect, like have the postal dude use women;s severed genitalia as a silencer for his weapons.
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TwilightBard: Why oppose the Gamergate movement like people have? Why try to paint the movement as misogynistic, racist, that we just want our toys to be our toys and no one else can play in the sandbox (Sandbox, seriously it's a fucking beach bigger then the coast of North and South America put together). What do people get out of this, what do people get from the twitter fights, and the circling wagons? Why is it so impossible to get people to accept this, and why has one subgroup who wasn't even the prime focus of this start jumping in like it has?
I think it's because they genuinely believe that #gamergate is misogynistic, racist, that we just want our toys to be our toys and no one else can play in the sandbox.

Look at it this way: pretend you're a game journalist for a major online gaming publication. What sort of gamers do you generally deal with? The kind that get into flame wars in comment sections and send hate mail to writers when they publish a review/opinion piece they disagree with, I'd expect.

Let's say you're also a game journalist with some tendencies (or at least sympathies) toward radical feminism. You've probably followed all the blowups around AS's videos, Zoe Quinn's alleged abuse over Depression Quest, and maybe even that whole Susan Wilson Kickstarter thing, and interpreted all those things as evidence of deep-seeded misogyny in the videogame community. Don't forget, radical feminism tends to assume that anything and everything is somehow corrupted by this alleged "patriarchy," unless there's some evidence to the contrary.

I think a lot of journalists just saw how this thing started--with a lot of negativity surrounding a female developer and her sex life--and assumed they knew exactly what was going on, since they believe a)gamers tend to be assholes and b) gamers tend to be misogynists. Then there's the fact that #gamergate is attacking both them and their friends, and most everyone is automatically going to side with their friends over random strangers, even if the random strangers might have some legitimate points.

Let's also not forget that #gamergate isn't JUST calling for journalistic integrity, it's also been very vocal about its distaste for SJWs and their agenda. And if you're an SJW and you believe you're fighting for the rights of women in a sexist culture, what does opposition to your cause look like? Misogyny.

Those are my thoughts, at least.

As for the "Gamers are Dead" articles, I think that just as gamers have been slowly building up anger towards journalists for their agenda and their suspected corruption, journalists have been slowly building up anger towards gamers for their alleged misogyny and culture of harassment (again, because as a journalist with tendencies towards radical feminism, that's probably how you see gaming culture). The "Gamers are Dead" articles was their blow up, and gamergate was ours.

Sadly, they neglected to realize that he who holds the green, ultimately wins the war, and while the pen may indeed be mightier than the sword, it is not mightier than the ad revenue (or lack thereof) :P.

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jefequeso: That game already exists. It's called Postal 2 :P

Seriously, I'm not even being snarky. I'm certain that's exactly what they set out to do.
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keithdrop: Yes, Postal 2, but even more politically incorrect, like have the postal dude use women;s severed genitalia as a silencer for his weapons.
Not to be crass, but I think you'd need more than just the genitalia itself to make an effective silencer. Unless we're talking about the inside portions as well...

ok, I'm going to stop thinking about this.
Post edited September 22, 2014 by jefequeso
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TwilightBard: Why oppose the Gamergate movement like people have? Why try to paint the movement as misogynistic, racist, that we just want our toys to be our toys and no one else can play in the sandbox (Sandbox, seriously it's a fucking beach bigger then the coast of North and South America put together). What do people get out of this, what do people get from the twitter fights, and the circling wagons? Why is it so impossible to get people to accept this, and why has one subgroup who wasn't even the prime focus of this start jumping in like it has?
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jefequeso: I think it's because they genuinely believe that #gamergate is misogynistic, racist, that we just want our toys to be our toys and no one else can play in the sandbox.

Look at it this way: pretend you're a game journalist for a major online gaming publication. What sort of gamers do you generally deal with? The kind that get into flame wars in comment sections and send hate mail to writers when they publish a review/opinion piece they disagree with, I'd expect.

Let's say you're also a game journalist with some tendencies (or at least sympathies) toward radical feminism. You've probably followed all the blowups around AS's videos, Zoe Quinn's alleged abuse over Depression Quest, and maybe even that whole Susan Wilson Kickstarter thing, and interpreted all those things as evidence of deep-seeded misogyny in the videogame community. Don't forget, radical feminism tends to assume that anything and everything is somehow corrupted by this alleged "patriarchy," unless there's some evidence to the contrary.

I think a lot of journalists just saw how this thing started--with a lot of negativity surrounding a female developer and her sex life--and assumed they knew exactly what was going on, since they believe a)gamers tend to be assholes and b) gamers tend to be misogynists. Then there's the fact that #gamergate is attacking both them and their friends, and most everyone is automatically going to side with their friends over random strangers, even if the random strangers might have some legitimate points.

Let's also not forget that #gamergate isn't JUST calling for journalistic integrity, it's also been very vocal about its distaste for SJWs and their agenda. And if you're an SJW and you believe you're fighting for the rights of women in a sexist culture, what does opposition to your cause look like? Misogyny.

Those are my thoughts, at least.

As for the "Gamers are Dead" articles, I think that just as gamers have been slowly building up anger towards journalists for their agenda and their suspected corruption, journalists have been slowly building up anger towards gamers for their alleged misogyny and culture of harassment (again, because as a journalist with tendencies towards radical feminism, that's probably how you see gaming culture). The "Gamers are Dead" articles was their blow up, and gamergate was ours.

Sadly, they neglected to realize that he who holds the green, ultimately wins the war, and while the pen may indeed be mightier than the sword, it is not mightier than the ad revenue (or lack thereof) :P.

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keithdrop: Yes, Postal 2, but even more politically incorrect, like have the postal dude use women;s severed genitalia as a silencer for his weapons.
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jefequeso: Not to be crass, but I think you'd need more than just the genitalia itself to make an effective silencer. Unless we're talking about the inside portions as well...

ok, I'm going to stop thinking about this.
Thats a good line of reasoning. I think its also because most journalists use tumblr and tumblr has these SJW tendencies.

And yeah, Im just posting suggestions. No need to elaborate. :)
Post edited September 22, 2014 by keithdrop
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I'll just leave it here:
http://youtu.be/CuZdZZaHsX8?t=5m35s
(not for easily offended :))
Post edited September 22, 2014 by Novotnus
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jefequeso: That game already exists. It's called Postal 2 :P

Seriously, I'm not even being snarky. I'm certain that's exactly what they set out to do.
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keithdrop: Yes, Postal 2, but even more politically incorrect, like have the postal dude use OMFG NO WAY AM I GONNA QUOTE THAT!
Yeah, Postal 2 also popped into my mind as the prime example for an un-PC game.

The thing is this: Postal 2 is un-PC mostly for laughs. The things SJWs like to get riled up about is usually fairly innocuous stuff, things that a normal person wouldn't give a second thought. Look at something like Super Mario for example: A fat Italian plumber, speaking like-a dis, looking like Miyamoto modeled him after a drawing he found on a pizza box. It can be outrageously offensive if that's what the player wants it to be.

Outlast for example was released last year and was met with little to no controversy (at least none that I noticed), despite the fact that the game offers a level of graphic violence that isn't that far off from what you guys just came up with.
You know, I've seen pro-gamergate people say stupid stuff, but I've also been really impressed with some of their responses on Twitter.
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keithdrop: Yes, Postal 2, but even more politically incorrect, like have the postal dude use OMFG NO WAY AM I GONNA QUOTE THAT!
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fronzelneekburm: Yeah, Postal 2 also popped into my mind as the prime example for an un-PC game.

The thing is this: Postal 2 is un-PC mostly for laughs. The things SJWs like to get riled up about is usually fairly innocuous stuff, things that a normal person wouldn't give a second thought. Look at something like Super Mario for example: A fat Italian plumber, speaking like-a dis, looking like Miyamoto modeled him after a drawing he found on a pizza box. It can be outrageously offensive if that's what the player wants it to be.

Outlast for example was released last year and was met with little to no controversy (at least none that I noticed), despite the fact that the game offers a level of graphic violence that isn't that far off from what you guys just came up with.
I guess Outlast is PC. :)
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keithdrop: Yes, Postal 2, but even more politically incorrect, like have the postal dude use OMFG NO WAY AM I GONNA QUOTE THAT!
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fronzelneekburm: Yeah, Postal 2 also popped into my mind as the prime example for an un-PC game.

The thing is this: Postal 2 is un-PC mostly for laughs. The things SJWs like to get riled up about is usually fairly innocuous stuff, things that a normal person wouldn't give a second thought. Look at something like Super Mario for example: A fat Italian plumber, speaking like-a dis, looking like Miyamoto modeled him after a drawing he found on a pizza box. It can be outrageously offensive if that's what the player wants it to be.

Outlast for example was released last year and was met with little to no controversy (at least none that I noticed), despite the fact that the game offers a level of graphic violence that isn't that far off from what you guys just came up with.
Because both Outlast and its followup are "safe" controversial games. There's some genuinely perverse stuff in them, but it never effects the "wrong" groups.

Because portraying the mentally ill as either a) brainless zombies or b) evil incarnate psychopaths that cut off one another's genitalia for sexual gratification (spoilers) is apparently ok, but fan service costumes in MOBAs aren't.

And don't even get me started on the way gaming treats religion.

Not an air-tight argument, I realize, but still... there are certainly special interest groups that you're supposed to listen to, and special interest groups that you don't have to listen to, when it comes to political correctness. That's what drives me absolutely nuts about it.
Post edited September 22, 2014 by jefequeso
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I'm just gonna leave this here:

https://twitter.com/PetiteMistress/status/514028516858290176