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WBGhiro: I find this very interesting, I always considered myself a "leftie" (in a let's say international internet sense), I didn't agree with it 100 of the time, but on the whole i was a leftie; especially when on the other political side of the spectrum there where some pretty retarded things going on, let's just say Bush for example.

In the past half year or so personally I found that the "left" (again, not specific to any country) radicalizd a lot too, in fact it seemed to be the exact opposite of the retarded right I enjoyed making fun of, yes it's the complete opposite but but also completely retarded in its own way.

The main problem is that yes bible thumpers have been silenced and ridiculed so much that they their opinions don't count anything anymore, but now the average tumblr snowflake seems to just take their place.

"The more things change the more they remain the same" is one of the sayings i think holds the most truth right now.
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ScotchMonkey: Radicalize any group on most spectrums and you get the same results. "Resistance is futile" or "Our way or the highway". When you go to that length you tend to become authoritarian more often than not.
*shrugs* Well, yeah, neither fascism nor communism are terribly fun regimes to live under I guess...
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noncompliantgame: There seems to be consensus amoungst we the people that online harassment is largely apolitical degenerates and "kidiots". But just think of some of the msm stories circulating, you would not hold that belief if all your info came from msm and for millions thats still the case - we all know what they are trying to do to gaming, destroy it. Its just that some of us are more able to face this reality. And sure you hear all sorts of horror stories but really? How many are true or accurate and even if they are real one needs to ask how frequent?
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Fever_Discordia: Wait, now you're saying that online abuse in online gaming IS a serious problem (albeit not confined to misogynistic slurs)?
How do you interpret
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noncompliantgame: There seems to be consensus amoungst we the people that online harassment is largely apolitical degenerates and "kidiots".
to mean?
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Fever_Discordia: online abuse in online gaming IS a serious problem
Post edited March 18, 2015 by noncompliantgame
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Fever_Discordia: Wait, now you're saying that online abuse in online gaming IS a serious problem (albeit not confined to misogynistic slurs)?
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noncompliantgame: How do you interpret
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noncompliantgame: There seems to be consensus amoungst we the people that online harassment is largely apolitical degenerates and "kidiots".
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noncompliantgame: to mean?
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Fever_Discordia: online abuse in online gaming IS a serious problem
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noncompliantgame:
But... that was followed by a 'but'...
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Fever_Discordia:
Your point being?
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Fever_Discordia:
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noncompliantgame: Your point being?
I'm not sure what you mean by 'MSM' to be honest...
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noncompliantgame: Your point being?
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Fever_Discordia: I'm not sure what you mean by 'MSM' to be honest...
Do you mean you don't know what the acronym means or you don't fully understand the meaning of the term?
I presume the later in which case I suggest you explain to me what your definition of msm is.
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Fever_Discordia: I'm not sure what you mean by 'MSM' to be honest...
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noncompliantgame: Do you mean you don't know what the acronym means or you don't fully understand the meaning of the term?
I presume the later in which case I suggest you explain to me what your definition of msm is.
OK I had to check on acronym finder... Mainstream Media?
OK let me re-read what you said now I know that...
Ah yeah, I see what you're saying now!

Historically, it's been right-wing 'MSM' news sources like Fox who have been most avidly anti-gaming - has gaming been taking any hits from the left in the 'MSM' arena too recently?
Genuine question
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noncompliantgame: Do you mean you don't know what the acronym means or you don't fully understand the meaning of the term?
I presume the later in which case I suggest you explain to me what your definition of msm is.
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Fever_Discordia: OK I had to check on acronym finder... Mainstream Media?
OK let me re-read what you said now I know that...
Ah yeah, I see what you're saying now!

Historically, it's been right-wing 'MSM' news sources like Fox who have been most avidly anti-gaming - has gaming been taking any hits from the left in the 'MSM' arena too recently?
Genuine question
You still havn't explained How you interpret
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noncompliantgame: There seems to be consensus amoungst we the people that online harassment is largely apolitical degenerates and "kidiots".
to mean?
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Fever_Discordia: online abuse in online gaming IS a serious problem
and what that statement being followed by "but" has to do with it.

Plus you didn't really provide a clear definition of msm.

As {Brasas} would say, me thinks you may be disingenuous.

However, to be honest, I'm on a secret mission to Mars and its the Martian time slip so I don't really mind whiling away an hour on the disingenuous or not. ;-)
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htown1980: You've illustrated my point perfectly. None of the points you have raised has anything to do with journalistic ethics. You don't like their viewpoint, you don't like them advocating it, making arguments in favour of it, lobbying for it, etc. As I say, it's completely fine for you to do that (although I disagree) but it's not about ethics in journalism.
Well speaking for myself I don't care that much about ethics in game journalism, personally I consider that the main thing missing from game journalism is not ethics... it's actual journalists. If I ended up siding with GG it's not because of ethics but because I cannot stand bigotry and demagoguery.

So yes, that's true for me at least.

But on the other side it doesn't mean that it's not an ethical concern too.

There is nothing wrong with having a personal opinion, there is nothing wrong with having an interest in social justice (I would even say that it's actually a pretty healthy thing to have), there is nothing wrong with wanting more diverse games (heck most my favorite game genres are nearly dead so I would love more diverse game genre); but that's when you start thinking that your opinion gives you the moral high ground and the right to start throwing hate and insults towards those with a different one that it become a problem.

And it's already bad enough if you are some random person on the Net, but if you happen to also be a journalist (or at least pretend to be one) then yes, I do consider that it's also a journalist ethic issue.

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htown1980: Side note:

Has any journalist actually claimed ALL violent games are specifically violent to women?
Has any journalist tried to force censorship or change at the point of a gun?

I'd be interested to see links
It's usually a lot more insidious that that, it's done via multiple ways for example

Using "emotionally charged" to demonize things they don't like : calling them "toxic", "misogynist", "perpetuating rape culture", "reactionary", "promoting violence toward woman,etc... and of course you can mix things for more impact : "this game is not bad but it would be so much better without all the toxic misogyny in it

Shaming and attacking developers or publishers who don't follow the one truth : calling extremists, hate mongers peoples who support or just give the benefit of the doubt to the wrong side or simply dare to question the validity of their arguments, dog pilling devs for a character/art/trope they disprove of,etc...

And of course you also have the good old hypocrisy that always works wonder :

"I am not asking to censor games... but asking developers to stop their evil objectification of woman is not censorship" (you get bonus point for using as many emotional charged words as you can), "I am not not asking to ban games... but when others do I applaud with both hands" or the always popular "[i]I am not asking to censor games... but asking distributors to stop selling them or publishers to no longer publish them is not censorship"
Post edited March 19, 2015 by Gersen
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Fever_Discordia: OK I had to check on acronym finder... Mainstream Media?
OK let me re-read what you said now I know that...
Ah yeah, I see what you're saying now!

Historically, it's been right-wing 'MSM' news sources like Fox who have been most avidly anti-gaming - has gaming been taking any hits from the left in the 'MSM' arena too recently?
Genuine question
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noncompliantgame: You still havn't explained How you interpret
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noncompliantgame: There seems to be consensus amoungst we the people that online harassment is largely apolitical degenerates and "kidiots".
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noncompliantgame: to mean?
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Fever_Discordia: online abuse in online gaming IS a serious problem
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noncompliantgame: and what that statement being followed by "but" has to do with it.

Plus you didn't really provide a clear definition of msm.

As {Brasas} would say, me thinks you may be disingenuous.

However, to be honest, I'm on a secret mission to Mars and its the Martian time slip so I don't really mind whiling away an hour on the disingenuous or not. ;-)
I'm sorry if you feel I was being disingenuous, I genuinely have never come across the acronym 'MSM' before - I read your post quickly (don't know if I was tired or in a hurry) and was thinking MSN (Messenger) (and yeah thinking about it it's been years since it was called that and now has been retired completely in favour of Skype) or SMS (texting)
I thought you were saying
"We think that most online harassers are just silly kidiots but now stories are coming out about harassment spreading out of the game chat and onto IM (PM, DM whatever the fashionable letter is) / Text messages"
Now I know that 'MSM' is 'mainstream media' (and not 'Men who have Sex with Men' as top answer on aconym finder says - Mainstream Media is the second!) I can see what your saying

I... don't know why you're so desperate for me to define Mainstream Media, seems weird but here goes -
The mainstream media is the news and entertainment source for the normal person in the street, the 'layman', Joe Bloggs, John Q Public who does not have any specialist knowledge or interest in a subject and needs the facts explained in simple terms.
Most people use specialist news sources for topics (gaming, science, foreign affairs, stamp collecting etc.) that they have a specialist interest in and the mainstream for the rest, which they don't

Hope that clears things up...
Can someone name some examples of games being sexist please? That's the Atni's argument yes? So please say some.
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Shadowstalker16: Can someone name some examples of games being sexist please? That's the Atni's argument yes? So please say some.
For sure the Neverwinter Nights games, as well as Baldur's Gate 1 + 2 and Icewind Dale 1 +2. Basically every RPG which let's you choose between a male or female character. It should be only a female you can play.
Back then when those games were made, it was a highly toxic gamer environment with mainly male players, so they gave the players the option to choose - heresy, such heresy.
Post edited March 19, 2015 by MaGo72
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Shadowstalker16: Can someone name some examples of games being sexist please? That's the Atni's argument yes? So please say some.
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MaGo72: For sure the Neverwinter Nights games, as well as Baldur's Gate 1 + 2 and Icewind Dale 1 +2. Basically every RPG which let's you choose between a male or female character. It should be only a female you can play.
Back then when those games were made, it was a highly toxic gamer environment with mainly male players, so they gave the players the option to choose - heresy, such heresy.
Elder scrolls & the Fallout games as well. Some of the bandits/ raiders may be female & we now know that all females should be set as unkillable or more accurately it should insta-death your character if you harm one
Post edited March 19, 2015 by Rusty_Gunn
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Shadowstalker16: Can someone name some examples of games being sexist please? That's the Atni's argument yes? So please say some.
Are you unable to watch any of Anita's videos for fear of your brain boiling and eyes melting, like you're opening the Arc of the Covenant or something?
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Shadowstalker16: Can someone name some examples of games being sexist please? That's the Atni's argument yes? So please say some.
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Fever_Discordia: Are you unable to watch any of Anita's videos for fear of your brain boiling and eyes melting, like you're opening the Arc of the Covenant or something?
nah rather i feel like many/most of her arguments are unresearched and downright bullshit. You can at some times almost taste the #fullmcintosh