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htown1980: My only point is that, a significant part of #gg is about anti-SJW and anti-feminism, not about journalistic integrity. I don't have a problem with that. #gg can be against feminism and SJWs (whether its journalists, developers, critics, etc) , I just don't like when #gg pretend their anti-feminism/SJWism is actually a call for journalistic integrity.
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Klumpen0815: A significant part? No. The antis like to claim this, but it's bullshit.

Of course there are people using #gg for stuff that it's not supposed to stand for, but guess what, way more often people use the term feminism to establish more female privileges instead of equality what it should stand for instead.
A significant part of humanity is made of idiots abusing everything to serve their cause, what else is new?
We might have a different idea of what significant means. I would say, look at what is said using the Twitter hashtag, look at the targets of #gg (they are almost exclusively feminists and sjws???), look at the people arguing that writing from a feminist or SJW perspective is in and of itself unethical, look at the most vocal proponents of #gg, Sargon, the kids making the gem freq video, etc, it's all anti SJW stuff. There is some journalistic ethics stuff sure, some might argue that's the majority of it, but there is a significant part of it that isn't - which is fine - unless people pretend its not the case
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Fever_Discordia:
How about this...
"On some level, the grim individuals who are self-centred and myopic enough to be upset at the prospect of having their medium taken away from them are absolutely right. They have astutely, and correctly identified what is going on here. Their toys are being taken away, and their treehouses are being boarded up. Videogames now live in the world and there is no going back.

I am convinced that this marks the end. We are finished here. From now on, there are no more gamers—only players."
-Dan Golding The End of Gamers
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htown1980: My only point is that, a significant part of #gg is about anti-SJW and anti-feminism, not about journalistic integrity. I don't have a problem with that. #gg can be against feminism and SJWs (whether its journalists, developers, critics, etc) , I just don't like when #gg pretend their anti-feminism/SJWism is actually a call for journalistic integrity.
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RWarehall: Personally I think you are being disingenuous. GG could care less about SJW's Radfems, neo-feminists if they stayed out of gaming journalism. The issue is that many of this people are trying to ram their beliefs down our throats at the expense of games.

For you to claim GG is dishonest on these grounds is greatly reaching. The GG stance is pretty clear. Don't lie and distort in support of your friend's games. Don't unduly trash and demean games unfairly just because of your cause. Don't claim all violent games are specifically violent to women when they are not. Don't try to force censorship or change at the point of a gun. The issue most in GG have against these groups is simply their holy jihad with regards to gaming and changing gaming, forcing this change. Neo-feminist radicalism is the problem and it is their use of the media in a vain attempt to extort the changes they want. Calls for journalistic integrity goes hand-in-hand with the abuses of these groups.

I actually find Klumpen's post very appropriate. All the SJW's want is for these developers to remove all the content which offends them....where does it stop? And what concepts then become allowable? Ultimately, the result is censorship.
You've illustrated my point perfectly. None of the points you have raised has anything to do with journalistic ethics. You don't like their viewpoint, you don't like them advocating it, making arguments in favour of it, lobbying for it, etc. As I say, it's completely fine for you to do that (although I disagree) but it's not about ethics in journalism.

Side note:

Has any journalist actually claimed ALL violent games are specifically violent to women?
Has any journalist tried to force censorship or change at the point of a gun?

I'd be interested to see links
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Klumpen0815: A significant part? No. The antis like to claim this, but it's bullshit.

Of course there are people using #gg for stuff that it's not supposed to stand for, but guess what, way more often people use the term feminism to establish more female privileges instead of equality what it should stand for instead.
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Fever_Discordia: Can you give some examples of this please?...
Sure, in Germany it's already institutionalized for a long time.
The army, the biggest physics companies and the official transit system (at least in Berlin) officially advertise, that they are prefering women to men with exact the same qualifications (in reality they actually prefer them with lower qualifications to appease the media, but the official statement is sexist enough). The green party says, that they take every woman that wants to take part until the whole party is at least 50-60% female. Just shows how much lack of interest in politics there is indeed in the female population if they can't be choosy.
When I badly needed money for rides and shelter (I had and got nothing from family or state) in order to present myself for jobs further outside, I couldn't find a paid one in my town because most of them were at a counter and all of them said stuff like "we were actually thinking about a woman for the job" or "no working with food with long hair" (while right behind there were several women with long hair without hair nets working there, but guess what, it's different if you're a dude). I never realized before, that nearly all people working at a counter were women and the few guys I knew were all relatives to the owner.
A European study has gathered information about sexism in German schools and it was completely against the boys, they get way (!) lower scores for the same effort, especcially in Hamburg and Berlin (I can sign that and many girls in my class agreed). Getting to study in a field with many women is quite unlikely because of this while there are "Frauenbeauftragte" everywhere (including universities) to get women jobs/studies that mostly men are interested in and get them money for the obligatory funding everyone has to do in order to make your diploma for example, even in fields were there are only 5-15% men.
There are more examples of this, feminism has gone past it's goal for a long time there.
No wonder that the suicide rate of men is still 3-5 times as high than the one of women in most countries, if you got a problem and are being discriminated, you are on your own and everybody says against all proof, that you are only imagining this and are a patriarch hater, even if you are at the very bottom.

Europe even had to force Germany to change its laws regarding the right of child custody, because men had no chance against the mother (even if she is a violent drunkard) when the couple was unmarried. Yes, marriage was the important point to have rights to your child there for a man, believe it or not.
A father had no right to demand a paternity test if he had to pay alimony for example and doubted the heritage.
I don't know if this has changed but I wouldn't count on it.

There's a reason why Germany has a female chancelor and it's not because she is any different from the rest of her completely corrupt party, it's because she can justify everything easier with being a woman. It's all about the image, just like Obama who is doing what all the others are doing too but looking better with it.

International it's currently at the point where it started in Germany a few decades ago:
Immunity to critics, lots of claims without proof (like the question of gender based income for the same job for the same amount of time) and actual changes in media and politics because of claims and media campaigns only.
Coming from Germany, I know exactly where it's heading and using the far left for this purpose (the purpose having nothing to do with equality whatsoever) has happened too and still is.

I don't believe you want "progressive" if "progressive" is just another kind of discrimination and injustice.
In Sweden there's even a law that allows consentual sex without condom to be judged as rape (by the man of course) afterwards, do you really want it to come that far?

SJWs are just as much about "social justice" as the national socialist party was about socialism, it's all about power and nothing else, that's how humans roll.

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htown1980: snip
You're Australian, don't tell me you haven't heard about the whole GTA5 and Hotline Miami 2 incident.
It was about violence against women in games where you are killing hundreds of men.
They won.

Edit: And there's a "Girl's Day" every year in Berlin schools where all the girls are invited to technical companies and get offered lots of stuff while the boys have to stay in school and get offered shit. Of course the (mostly female) teachers don't do anything useful on this day because the girls would miss it. Feminist sexism everywhere.
Post edited March 17, 2015 by Klumpen0815
No; reviews are meant to be objective; with the author trying to be objective; and keeping his or her personal opinions about the context of the game and the theme of the game under raps. When I want to read a TLoU review; I want an article on the game and not how that setting or how a character is sexist or misogynist or any ist. When people read a Bayonetta 2 review; they wanna see if the game has good mechanics; good story and writing; good music etc. NOT how Bayonetta's ass is offensive to the reviewer's cult or anything along those lines.
Illustrated your point? Proof is everywhere. Every review mentioning violence specifically against women. Every game boycott on the grounds of sexism specifically against women. All you do is try to twist words, throw out logical fallacies (should as implying if no journalist has called out all violent games that somehow this means violent games aren't being targeted by the neofems). You keep just making shit up claiming no one else but you are proving anything. But the truth is, you come off as just bat shit crazy. How about reading the thread, reading the links. Everything you ask for is there, in all these discussions you've been participating in for months. Yet somehow, neofems have done nothing wrong? Have never misrepresented games? They aren't still attacking Brad Wardell? They haven't still been telling everyone who will listen how he's a sexual harasser? They don't have his games blacklisted? Change your games or else...that is the motto...

Your problem, time and again, you ignore everything pointed out. You come back weeks later and "conveniently forget" the last debate you lost. And walk in and pretend you have something useful to say.

Of course this is about ethics in journalism and the media. Be it Twitter, Change.org, Newsweek, Boston Globe, you name it, who is spreading all these lies? Because those are the angles these crazy neo-fems like you are attacking the games men like. With all the talk of oversexualized avatars in games, why does Brianna Wu's game get a free pass? Oh right, she's on their side...double standard much?

Frankly, you don't have a clue what ethics are. You only use the Code of Journalistic Ethics to cherry-pick quotes out of while ignoring that which is inconvenient...
Post edited March 17, 2015 by RWarehall
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RWarehall: snip
To be fair, I was like htown1980 once myself, even as stubborn in this regard.

I grew up with a heavily feminist mindset. I always thought women were being treated worse, have to suffer from less chances in life, and are overall more kind, friendly, helpful, innocent and the better persons in any way. That's the stuff that gets repeated over and over and I believed in it. I just was disillusioned enough in my life by being treated worse because I was male, by experiencing violence (including sexual violence) and blind hatred by women, by knowing more romantic (=not bitchy) men than women and by seeing and by being directly affected by lots and lots of misandric sexism, that I finally woke up.
Every time I asked my Ex-gfs if they were ever treated worse because they were female and they thought about it a while, they said "no" or "rather the opposite".

I can totally understand why all gay guys I ever knew don't want to have anything to do with the whole neo-feminist movement.

Seeing how even one of my hobbies gets bombarded by them now, I draw the line and say it has to stop now.
Post edited March 17, 2015 by Klumpen0815
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RWarehall: Illustrated your point? Proof is everywhere. Every review mentioning violence specifically against women. Every game boycott on the grounds of sexism specifically against women. All you do is try to twist words, throw out logical fallacies (should as implying if no journalist has called out all violent games that somehow this means violent games aren't being targeted by the neofems). You keep just making shit up claiming no one else but you are proving anything. But the truth is, you come off as just bat shit crazy. How about reading the thread, reading the links. Everything you ask for is there, in all these discussions you've been participating in for months. Yet somehow, neofems have done nothing wrong? Have never misrepresented games? They aren't still attacking Brad Wardell? They haven't still been telling everyone who will listen how he's a sexual harasser? They don't have his games blacklisted? Change your games or else...that is the motto...

Your problem, time and again, you ignore everything pointed out. You come back weeks later and "conveniently forget" the last debate you lost. And walk in and pretend you have something useful to say.

Of course this is about ethics in journalism and the media. Be it Twitter, Change.org, Newsweek, Boston Globe, you name it, who is spreading all these lies? Because those are the angles these crazy neo-fems like you are attacking the games men like. With all the talk of oversexualized avatars in games, why does Brianna Wu's game get a free pass? Oh right, she's on their side...double standard much?

Frankly, you don't have a clue what ethics are. You only use the Code of Journalistic Ethics to cherry-pick quotes out of while ignoring that which is inconvenient...
Surely Brad Wardell was marked as the anti-Christ because he came out as pro-GG and therefore, as I said before 'THE DEVIL' - it's not about the content of Stardocks games - aren't they mostly space ships and planets anyway? Not much for anyone to get their knickers in a twist about there...

And yes I must have forgotten every debate I've lost because I don't recall losing a single one! Surely this is all just one big, massed debate anyway :-P

*edit*
Brad Wardell - a person who suffers from unsubstantiated claims pertaining to his personal sexual conduct that a group of people are making all sorts of assumptions about and blowing up out of proportion? Hmm.. seems like that should remind me of someone else but I can't... quite...
Post edited March 17, 2015 by Fever_Discordia
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RWarehall: snip
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Klumpen0815: To be fair, I was like htown1980 once myself, even as stubborn in this regard.

I grew up with a heavily feminist mindset. I always thought women were being treated worse, have to suffer from less chances in life, and are overall more kind, friendly, helpful, innocent and the better persons in any way. That's the stuff that gets repeated over and over and I believed in it. I just was disillusioned enough in my life by being treated worse because I was male, by experiencing violence (including sexual violence) and blind hatred by women, by knowing more romantic (=not bitchy) men than women and by seeing and by being directly affected by lots and lots of misandric sexism, that I finally woke up.
Every time I asked my Ex-gfs if they were ever treated worse because they were female and they thought about it a while, they said "no" or "rather the opposite".

I can totally understand why all gay guys I ever knew don't want to have anything to do with the whole neo-feminist movement.

Seeing how even one of my hobbies gets bombarded by them now, I draw the line and say it has to stop now.
I swear - if you start talking about red pills and blue pills I'm going to slap you silly! (j/k, obvs)
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Shadowstalker16: No; reviews are meant to be objective; with the author trying to be objective; and keeping his or her personal opinions about the context of the game and the theme of the game under raps. When I want to read a TLoU review; I want an article on the game and not how that setting or how a character is sexist or misogynist or any ist. When people read a Bayonetta 2 review; they wanna see if the game has good mechanics; good story and writing; good music etc. NOT how Bayonetta's ass is offensive to the reviewer's cult or anything along those lines.
What? So you think that all reviews of this:
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooligans:_Storm_Over_Europe]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooligans:_Storm_Over_Europe[/url]
Should have focused on the mechanics, story and writing and not mentioned it's glorification of football hooliganism because that's just 'context' and isn't important?
Post edited March 17, 2015 by Fever_Discordia
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Fever_Discordia: Surely Brad Wardell was marked as the anti-Christ because he came out as pro-GG and therefore, as I said before 'THE DEVIL' - it's not about the content of Stardocks games - aren't they mostly space ships and planets anyway? Not much for anyone to get their knickers in a twist about there...
All those current space, starship, planets and fleet games are obviously part of the evil patriarchy's conspiracy that's all about war, misanthropy and mysoginy. Notice how they barely show any humans and like to refer to aliens rather than to the backwards civilisation on earth? They surely degrade humanity and worst of all: Including all da wymin!
I feel offended by this and it has to be cen... made to transfer a better message.

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Fever_Discordia: I swear - if you start talking about red pills and blue pills I'm going to slap you silly! (j/k, obvs)
http://cdn2.crushable.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/mal-what.gif
Post edited March 17, 2015 by Klumpen0815
Hooligans: Storm Over Europe Is one game I really really want to play. Firm culture fascinates me.

Such a shame GOG has not got it.
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Neonshuffler: Hooligans: Storm Over Europe Is one game I really really want to play. Firm culture fascinates me.

Such a shame GOG has not got it.
I must admit I'd give it a go if it somehow found its way into my library, out of morbid curiosity if nothing else...
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Neonshuffler: Hooligans: Storm Over Europe Is one game I really really want to play. Firm culture fascinates me.

Such a shame GOG has not got it.
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Fever_Discordia: I must admit I'd give it a go if it somehow found its way into my library, out of morbid curiosity if nothing else...
Who wouldn't want to run their own ICF and give it to Milwall or vice versa?
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Fever_Discordia: Surely Brad Wardell was marked as the anti-Christ because he came out as pro-GG and therefore, as I said before 'THE DEVIL' - it's not about the content of Stardocks games - aren't they mostly space ships and planets anyway? Not much for anyone to get their knickers in a twist about there...
They also have Fallen Enchantress which I have seen called sexist by certain circles though I don't know why.
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Fever_Discordia: Surely Brad Wardell was marked as the anti-Christ because he came out as pro-GG and therefore, as I said before 'THE DEVIL' - it's not about the content of Stardocks games - aren't they mostly space ships and planets anyway? Not much for anyone to get their knickers in a twist about there...
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tremere110: They also have Fallen Enchantress which I have seen called sexist by certain circles though I don't know why.
I had a quick look around and, if anything, it seems that Fallen Enchantress is the one they point at and go 'We're not sexist - see this one has a female protagonist and everything!"
However is IT the one that apparently had a very poor launch and they tried to sue Alexandra Miseta over and she counter-sued citing sexual harassment and frankly who knows what really went on behind closed corporate doors? It's pure speculation from both camps IMO

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/176022/Stardock_blames_and_sues_marketer_for_Elementals_poor_launch.php
Post edited March 17, 2015 by Fever_Discordia