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Emob78: Gamers have been through this before. Games HAVE been critiqued and analyzed... and that's where the constant attempts at censorship began, way back in the early to mid 90s when the various political groups on the left and the right realized what a booming industry it was. Before the money started flowing and gaming was a back room hobby for D&D nerds, no one gave a shit about game content or setting any kind of standards and practices. The money showed up and all the horseshit came right along with it.

So if gamers seem defensive about their hobby, it's because they've been through the dog and pony show before. This is not the first time people from the outside have barged their way in and demanded to alter/limit/censor or change the gaming hobby itself... nor will it be the last.
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Fever_Discordia: Anita is not Jack Thompson

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/9865-Gaming-Needs-To-Get-Over-Jack-Thompson

I sincerely believe that Anita is NOT pro-censorship, I am AGAINST censorship and FOR Anita's rights to express her opinions and to attempt to 'educate' without being harassed - I see that as a form of attempted censorship in itself!
Anita and her ilk haven't stated their end-goals because it would be like shooting themselves in the foot. Everyone knows the power of the words 'censorship', but you can get to the same place just using different words like 'workplace community' or 'tolerance in action'. These terms the crusaders throw around are no different than something out of 1984 or Brave New World. They just don't see it because of the complete lack of awareness on their own part as they polish their marching boots.

If GG, the Codex, Adam Baldwin, the Twitter troops, and the millions of gamers out there just threw in the towel and let the SJW wrecking crew do what they want, there would be censorship. Lots of it. You'd never fight, drink, drive, party, fuck, or fantasize in a video game again without content filters, expanded ratings systems, and political legislation. The end of gaming would come with a huge video game bonfire and the SJW nutballs dancing around it screaming like wild Indians.
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Fever_Discordia: Anita is not Jack Thompson

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/9865-Gaming-Needs-To-Get-Over-Jack-Thompson

I sincerely believe that Anita is NOT pro-censorship, I am AGAINST censorship and FOR Anita's rights to express her opinions and to attempt to 'educate' without being harassed - I see that as a form of attempted censorship in itself!
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Emob78: Anita and her ilk haven't stated their end-goals because it would be like shooting themselves in the foot. Everyone knows the power of the words 'censorship', but you can get to the same place just using different words like 'workplace community' or 'tolerance in action'. These terms the crusaders throw around are no different than something out of 1984 or Brave New World. They just don't see it because of the complete lack of awareness on their own part as they polish their marching boots.

If GG, the Codex, Adam Baldwin, the Twitter troops, and the millions of gamers out there just threw in the towel and let the SJW wrecking crew do what they want, there would be censorship. Lots of it. You'd never fight, drink, drive, party, fuck, or fantasize in a video game again without content filters, expanded ratings systems, and political legislation. The end of gaming would come with a huge video game bonfire and the SJW nutballs dancing around it screaming like wild Indians.
Now you're sounding like an MRA conspiracist nutball...

*sigh* TLAs - you get SJW, we get MRA, they're so useful and save so much time!
I actually quite like Social Justice Warrior though - I like to imagine myself on a gleaming white steed (although I obviously use a black steed every-other day to keep things balanced) holding my sword 'Righteous Indignation' (yes that IS a Bucky O'Hare reference) to the heavens fighting for justice and equality wherever I go!
Like the A-Team only more medieval!
Saying that though, if we ARE knights are Anita and Zoe ours damsels in distress that we are forever destined to defend? That's.... somewhat ironic :-D
Post edited March 12, 2015 by Fever_Discordia
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Fever_Discordia: Anita is not Jack Thompson
Maybe not, but she's certainly Jack Thompson-esque. Why did everyone hate Thompson? Because he popularized a bunch of insane misconceptions about gaming and was generally a joyless person, or because he tried to do something about it? If he hadn't tried to ban games, would everyone have been totally okay with him?

Of course not, and you need only look at the GG-inspired Law and Order: SVU episode to see how Sarkeesian and the games media have portrayed gaming to those unfamiliar with it. it's not much rosier, nor is it any more accurate, so I'd say there's a pretty legitimate reason for gamers to dislike her.
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Emob78: Anita and her ilk haven't stated their end-goals because it would be like shooting themselves in the foot. Everyone knows the power of the words 'censorship', but you can get to the same place just using different words like 'workplace community' or 'tolerance in action'. These terms the crusaders throw around are no different than something out of 1984 or Brave New World. They just don't see it because of the complete lack of awareness on their own part as they polish their marching boots.

If GG, the Codex, Adam Baldwin, the Twitter troops, and the millions of gamers out there just threw in the towel and let the SJW wrecking crew do what they want, there would be censorship. Lots of it. You'd never fight, drink, drive, party, fuck, or fantasize in a video game again without content filters, expanded ratings systems, and political legislation. The end of gaming would come with a huge video game bonfire and the SJW nutballs dancing around it screaming like wild Indians.
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Fever_Discordia: Now you're sounding like an MRA conspiracist nutball...
Seriously, if it would be about diversity and better portrayal of whatever in games, those people would just make their own games and sell them, instead they are going to conferences, tv shows, etc... shoving their face and their prop... message onto as many people as possible and officially shame everyone that is not their opinion (GaymerX, Lizzy, TotalBiscuit, etc..) in order to gain more power over the art of others and the things people are allowed to do. This is simply the way how modern censorship works, I've seen this all the time by other activists of other hate movements too and somehow there was always a lot of money involved...

To get back on topic:
And of course they came to the rescue when a highly corrupt shitty game-dev who used female organs to gain undeserved attention and was outed has gotten into a shit storm, because they are opportunistic sexists after all.
Post edited March 12, 2015 by Klumpen0815
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Emob78: Anita and her ilk haven't stated their end-goals because it would be like shooting themselves in the foot. Everyone knows the power of the words 'censorship', but you can get to the same place just using different words like 'workplace community' or 'tolerance in action'. These terms the crusaders throw around are no different than something out of 1984 or Brave New World. They just don't see it because of the complete lack of awareness on their own part as they polish their marching boots.

If GG, the Codex, Adam Baldwin, the Twitter troops, and the millions of gamers out there just threw in the towel and let the SJW wrecking crew do what they want, there would be censorship. Lots of it. You'd never fight, drink, drive, party, fuck, or fantasize in a video game again without content filters, expanded ratings systems, and political legislation. The end of gaming would come with a huge video game bonfire and the SJW nutballs dancing around it screaming like wild Indians.
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Fever_Discordia: Now you're sounding like an MRA conspiracist nutball...

*sigh* TLAs - you get SJW, we get MRA, they're so useful and save so much time!
I actually quite like Social Justice Warrior though - I like to imagine myself on a gleaming white steed (although I obviously use a black steed every-other day to keep things balanced) holding my sword 'Righteous Indignation' (yes that IS a Bucky O'Hare reference) to the heavens fighting for justice and equality wherever I go!
Like the A-Team only more medieval!
Saying that though, if we ARE knights are Anita and Zoe ours damsels in distress that we are forever destined to defend? That's.... somewhat ironic :-D
The only abbreviated term that fits the whole thing is FUBAR.
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Fever_Discordia: Now you're sounding like an MRA conspiracist nutball...
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Klumpen0815: Seriously, if it would be about diversity and better protrayal of whatever in games, those people would just make their own games and sell them, instead they are going to conferences, tv shows, etc... shoving their face and their prop... message onto as many people as possible and officially shame everyone that is not their opinion (GaymerX, Lizzy, TotalBiscuit, etc..) in order to gain more power over the art of others and the things people are allowed to do. This is simply the way how modern censorship works, I've seen this all the time by other activists of other hate movements too and somehow there was always a lot of money involved...
Of course, but that understanding only comes to the minds of people who know the difference between the soft sell and the hard sell. Different tactics, similar results.
Post edited March 12, 2015 by Emob78
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Fever_Discordia: Now you're sounding like an MRA conspiracist nutball...
Even a stopped clock is right twice per day... this associative process of "you sound like" is THE problem in a nutshell. Let's engage the speech and ideas, not shoot the messenger nor shortcut with guilt or praise by association.

I said somewhere already and will repeat myself; radfem and PUA are two sides of one coin. It always takes two to tango...
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Klumpen0815: shoving their face and their prop... message onto as many people as possible and officially shame everyone that is not their opinion (GaymerX, Lizzy, TotalBiscuit, etc..)
Relevant image. Nope, don't see any censorship there. I'm sure them changing their position the day after was just a coincidence. I'm also sure that Brianna Wu being thrown under the bus for having the audacity to share a cup of coffee (or maybe some other beverage) with Brad Wardell had nothing to do with forcing her back into line.

Obviously it's not censorship. Everyone just has to act a certain way, or else suffer consequences. They're clearly totally different things!
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Fever_Discordia: Thing with Anita is though, and I've probably said this before, that her original 6 Feminist Frequency videos were about tropes and feminism in the media GENERALLY, she barely touched on video games at all, she even went after the geekdom heartland stuff like Star Trek: TNG and you know what? no-one batted an eyelid, she could have gone on creating them from now until the end of time without there ever being a 'geekgate' or whatever
It's only when she turned her attention to video games that everything went nutso bananas and I think, if nothing else, gamers need to ask themselves why they won't allow computer games to be analysed and critiqued to that degree, like ever other entertainment medium is everyday in every media studies dissertation in the world!
That's because every 16 years old brat is a "gamer". And because every 16 years old brat loves to insult everyone out of his anonymity. And because every 16 years old brat is always online. I bet 50% of the "rape threats" against Anita came from kids who don't even know what a boner is. From kids who just want to do something "funny" while hanging around with their friends after school. You don't find those kids amongst Trekkies. That's why Trekkies didn't react at all.

Do you know why I avoid multiplayer with random people? Because I don't want to hear childish insults from stupid kids. I too could "pull a Sarkeesian" and tell everyone that I got "sexually harassed" and that I received "rape threats" against my family. But I know where those "threats" came from. And I know that feminism won't change shit about them, because kids are kids and will always be kids. They'll grow up and stop this shit all by themselves. Believe me, I know what I'm talking about. I was a kid myself, some years ago.

We're not talking about "gamers" reaction here. We're talking about the reaction of kids who happen to be gamers, because all kids are gamers. Touch another kiddie topic and you'll get the same stupid reaction.
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Fever_Discordia: Thing with Anita is though, and I've probably said this before, that her original 6 Feminist Frequency videos were about tropes and feminism in the media GENERALLY, she barely touched on video games at all, she even went after the geekdom heartland stuff like Star Trek: TNG and you know what? no-one batted an eyelid, she could have gone on creating them from now until the end of time without there ever being a 'geekgate' or whatever
It's only when she turned her attention to video games that everything went nutso bananas and I think, if nothing else, gamers need to ask themselves why they won't allow computer games to be analysed and critiqued to that degree, like ever other entertainment medium is everyday in every media studies dissertation in the world!
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real.geizterfahr: That's because every 16 years old brat is a "gamer". And because every 16 years old brat loves to insult everyone out of his anonymity. And because every 16 years old brat is always online. I bet 50% of the "rape threats" against Anita came from kids who don't even know what a boner is. From kids who just want to do something "funny" while hanging around with their friends after school. You don't find those kids amongst Trekkies. That's why Trekkies didn't react at all.

Do you know why I avoid multiplayer with random people? Because I don't want to hear childish insults from stupid kids. I too could "pull a Sarkeesian" and tell everyone that I got "sexually harassed" and that I received "rape threats" against my family. But I know where those "threats" came from. And I know that feminism won't change shit about them, because kids are kids and will always be kids. They'll grow up and stop this shit all by themselves. Believe me, I know what I'm talking about. I was a kid myself, some years ago.

We're not talking about "gamers" reaction here. We're talking about the reaction of kids who happen to be gamers, because all kids are gamers. Touch another kiddie topic and you'll get the same stupid reaction.
Yeah, maybe, I 'd like to think that but who knows?
Maybe it's because you want to believe that that you do - I'd like to believe it too though, don't get me wrong!
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Fever_Discordia:
i believe anita has the full right to express her opinion.
But i also believe i should have the right to find that opinion and her arguments utter bullshit without being accused of misogyny.

Gamer have been receiving shit from all sides their entire lives. And now we gat even more shit. everyone loves to take a crap on gamers. We've been called nerds, losers, nolifers, terrorists, school shooters and now we are called rapists as well. And our culture gets declared dead. And we are not allowed to complain because of how 'privileged' we are.Oh what fun.


And they only attack boys in keeping girls out of gaming, but what of other girls? if a girl games in high school, all gamers will like her while THE OTHER GIRLS will treat her like an outcast. I've seen this happen more than once. But as usual, boys get all the blame.

Anitas fearmongering will keep more girls out of gaming than male gamers ever will

as joe reagan said: "many of the SJW are so far left they have become right sided."
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Fever_Discordia:
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dragonbeast: i believe anita has the full right to express her opinion.
But i also believe i should have the right to find that opinion and her arguments utter bullshit without being accused of misogyny.
I don't stalk you around the internet and I don't know which SJW zealots you've been provoking, but I don't believe anyone is calling people names for simply disagreeing with Miss Sarkessian, that's not how it should be going down anyway, no
Saying that though, I don't know exactly what you said to provoke what and that you didn't call anyone names yourself...
Post edited March 12, 2015 by Fever_Discordia
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dragonbeast: i believe anita has the full right to express her opinion.
But i also believe i should have the right to find that opinion and her arguments utter bullshit without being accused of misogyny.
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Fever_Discordia: I don't stalk you around the internet and I don't know which SJW zealots you've been provoking, but I don't believe anyone is calling people names for simply disagreeing with Miss Sarkessian, that's not how it should be going down anyway, no
Saying that though, I don't know exactly what you said to provoke what and that you didn't call anyone names yourself...
Yes they have. Disagreeing with Anita (or any other principal in the SJW movement) on any point at all makes one a Gamergater, a group entirely composed of misogynists. Because disagreeing with any woman is the same as hating all of them.
Whatever the social justice whiners say; there is proof that the journalists were corrupt, and that is undeniable. When a person who owes a duty to the consumer trips on a combination of their ego and their self- righteousness they gotta be corrected. I say this all the time; but there is objective proof here; which is 1000X better than any ''evidence'' those whiners can produce in their stupid pre-written video which they forget a few seconds later.
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Fever_Discordia: but I don't believe anyone is calling people names for simply disagreeing with Miss Sarkessian, that's not how it should be going down anyway, no
the problem is, yes. Any form of criticism is claimed to be harassment.

i myself kept safely out of fire ( there is only one i clinch with) but it is a fact that by associating with gg you are guilty of every crime ever committed by any individuals in gg.

you come across as a reasonable person, actually open to this discussion

I feel the need to warn you: the anti side don't like if you try to have a fair discussion (like now) with the Cispig scum.

i feel like that is a bit of a difference: the average ggr seems more open to discuss it.

I think that if sargon of akkad had a talk with Brianna wu, gg would be sorta ok with it (from what i've seen), but anti gg would Definitly not approve at all
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Fever_Discordia: but I don't believe anyone is calling people names for simply disagreeing with Miss Sarkessian, that's not how it should be going down anyway, no
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dragonbeast: the problem is, yes. Any form of criticism is claimed to be harassment.

i myself kept safely out of fire ( there is only one i clinch with) but it is a fact that by associating with gg you are guilty of every crime ever committed by any individuals in gg.

you come across as a reasonable person, actually open to this discussion

I feel the need to warn you: the anti side don't like if you try to have a fair discussion (like now) with the Cispig scum.

i feel like that is a bit of a difference: the average ggr seems more open to discuss it.

I think that if sargon of akkad had a talk with Brianna wu, gg would be sorta ok with it (from what i've seen), but anti gg would </span>Definitly not approve at all
Conclusion:

one group supports liberty, transparency, another demands group think, opacity.
True.

There's so much proof of this flying around and I wonder how much more is needed or if some people will never awaken.

It was the same with the girls in my school, the very few gamers of them where shunned because naturally they had to hang out with boys and the common girls didn't approve of this at all.
This whole intolerant hive-minded "either you're one of us or one of them" is a usual pattern.
Hate movements don't want dialogue, they want isolation and full on war and that's exactly what anti-#gg is.
Post edited March 12, 2015 by Klumpen0815