It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
catpower1980: EDIT: before I forget, here's the latest article on diversity in gaming where The Witcher gets caught as "bad example":
http://gamasutra.com/blogs/KatieChironis/20150302/237689/quotBut_Its_Not_Historically_Accuratequot__Diversity_in_Elsinore.php
I have said it often: I have nothing against diverse characters, Add as many diverse characters as you wish, I welcome them with open arms.
But for f*cks sake stop hating on every game that doesn't have them.
I guess anti gg is going to take this as proof i'm a misogynistic racist.

Imagine someone complaining about a game set in pre colonial Africa featuring an all dark cast. Just imagine the massive shitstorm. And would anyone complain about a game in shogun era japan featuring only well...Japanese?
Not to mention that if you read the Witcher novels, there are fairly obvious parallels with the attitudes against the races of Elves and Dwarves and general racism. So to use it as a negative example is naive.
avatar
RWarehall: there are fairly obvious parallels with the attitudes against the races of Elves and Dwarves and general racism.
Seems like you missed the part in bold ;)
"if there are elves and monsters, orcs and demons, naturally there will be people of color or genderqueer characters, right?"
low rated
The article advocates historical accuracy by actually doing some research.

There's no "hating" going on against the games mentioned with an all white cast. The focus is on possibilities in game design, not necessity or rules of diversity. And that's literally all there is to the article. Seriously, even the Canterbury Tales have their fair share of "genderqueer" characters (all portrayed negatively, of course), and that was way before Shakespeare.

In choosing a historical period for your game, you choose a blank canvas full of potential. Rather than immediately applying the version of history which Hollywood has handed down to us and calling it "accurate," creators should strive to be reflective of actual history. That involves rethinking some of the assumptions we make about the people who lived and died long before us.
Speaking of Hollywood: Hilarious developments at the not particularly bustling set of the "Sarkeesian Effect" documentary! It's a bit like the Backstreet Boys breakup, only with more shit flinging and considerably less tasty butts.
Post edited March 03, 2015 by Vainamoinen
avatar
dragonbeast: Imagine someone complaining about a game set in pre colonial Africa featuring an all dark cast. Just imagine the massive shitstorm. And would anyone complain about a game in shogun era japan featuring only well...Japanese?
Didn't you get the memo? An all-white cast is ethnically homogenous, but an all-black or all-asian cast is ethnically diverse.
avatar
catpower1980: EDIT: before I forget, here's the latest article on diversity in gaming where The Witcher gets caught as "bad example":
http://gamasutra.com/blogs/KatieChironis/20150302/237689/quotBut_Its_Not_Historically_Accuratequot__Diversity_in_Elsinore.php
in reading that I'm reminded of why gamers had to die part 1 & part 2
avatar
Vainamoinen: The article advocates historical accuracy by actually doing some research.

There's no "hating" going on against the games mentioned with an all white cast. The focus is on possibilities in game design, not necessity or rules of diversity. And that's literally all there is to the article. Seriously, even the Canterbury Tales have their fair share of "genderqueer" characters (all portrayed negatively, of course), and that was way before Shakespeare.
Did you even read the article or is this more trolling? She devoted a few paragraphs on "hating" certain games and their all-white cast. Half the article is about what is wrong with those games, not about "possibilities as you claim. Learn to read.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDXDrhVpCTA Harvard gives Anita a BJ.
low rated
avatar
Vainamoinen: The article advocates historical accuracy by actually doing some research.

There's no "hating" going on against the games mentioned with an all white cast. The focus is on possibilities in game design, not necessity or rules of diversity. And that's literally all there is to the article. Seriously, even the Canterbury Tales have their fair share of "genderqueer" characters (all portrayed negatively, of course), and that was way before Shakespeare.
avatar
RWarehall: Did you even read the article or is this more trolling? She devoted a few paragraphs on "hating" certain games and their all-white cast. Half the article is about what is wrong with those games, not about "possibilities as you claim. Learn to read.
I don't understand how you can possibly be reading the same article. It starts off explaining why they chose to portray Ophelia as someone dark skinned, then she explains why what she considers is the usual portrayal of medieval people in movies is inaccurate and then she relates that to a few video games. Six or seven of the 20 plus paragraphs relate to other games and not all of those paragraphs are negative.

The tone of the article seems overwhelmingly to argue that 'historical accuracy' is not a reason to have an all white cast in video games, not that video games with all white casts are necessarily bad. How is it that one cannot criticize something without being accused of 'hating'?
avatar
Shadowstalker16: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDXDrhVpCTA Harvard gives Anita a BJ.
Who cares. It is some student or community group that is located near Harvard giving her some award. Even this article which repeats all of Anita's talking points says that the organization is not officially affiliated with Harvard University.

http://www.polygamer.net/2015/02/09/anita-sarkeesian-harvard-humanist-of-the-year/

The article is kind of amusing. My favourite quotes: Of her critics "...atheists have proven to be a larger more vocal contingent." When asked what they can do to help "...better representation of women in games, but she also included a personal plea: produce positive video response to her Feminist Frequency series." "Youtube's algorithm is such bull****"
avatar
htown1980: snip
It's a short article... I'd say there is a slightly revisionist attitude in the expressed argument, almost fetishist of ethnic diversity, in a solipsistic way. Somehow I assume both Ophelia and Hamlet will be black when staged say in Nigeria... then again, they might very well choose anything but Shakespeare...

The bottom line here is a rejection of normality as a concept. It's normal for a majority group to represent itself. The less represented minorities are less normal, but they are not abnormal. Only if you somehow believe there is no such thing as an average normal - we're all special snowflakes! all perspectives on reality are equally valid! 0_o - then you conflate minority status with unfairness automatically, regardless of objective facts.

Now to finish on criticism, I'm all for the approach of these authors, despite the flimsy historical justification. Cherry picked one might say, but here there is no ethical ground to demand otherwise. The part that seems odd is where lack of diversity is interpreted as a political statement, rather than a reflection of a normal. This is projection by the writer imo, though ill admit it only comes through between the lines. That's the negative aspect of this criticism, it reduces some works to a failed opportunity to explore a specific topic... regardless of the tone.

Come to think of it, in relation to the Witcher, I think these topics of history vs fantasy were explored by Sapkowski himself in a book interview by an historian. The focus was not on ethnic minorities as I recall, but there were many questions about how much or how little the authorial choices were intended to parallel historical organized religion, or historical aspects of germanic-slavic relations. Hmmm the religion stuff was more for the Hussite trilogy I think...
avatar
htown1980: How is it that one cannot criticize something without being accused of 'hating'?
Unfortunately that is where this internet crap storm has ended up. Well lets be frank it basically started there.

"These obtuse shitslingers, these wailing hyper-consumers, these childish internet-arguers"

Gamergate is worse than ISIS etc...

Any rational discussion was quickly drowned out in calls of misoginy and bias.

My thoughts on the article. I would have just said she is that colour because that is what I chose. There is no need to do mental gymnastics to support the decision. Of course that makes for a boring article and no press. It also doesn't allow a person to say look my game is more inclusive and historically accurate than these big name titles. Buy it.
avatar
walpurgis8199: ... I would have just said she is that colour because that is what I chose. There is no need to do mental gymnastics to support the decision. ...
Ding ding ding... :)
avatar
htown1980: snip
avatar
Brasas: It's a short article... I'd say there is a slightly revisionist attitude in the expressed argument, almost fetishist of ethnic diversity, in a solipsistic way. Somehow I assume both Ophelia and Hamlet will be black when staged say in Nigeria... then again, they might very well choose anything but Shakespeare...

The bottom line here is a rejection of normality as a concept. It's normal for a majority group to represent itself. The less represented minorities are less normal, but they are not abnormal. Only if you somehow believe there is no such thing as an average normal - we're all special snowflakes! all perspectives on reality are equally valid! 0_o - then you conflate minority status with unfairness automatically, regardless of objective facts.

Now to finish on criticism, I'm all for the approach of these authors, despite the flimsy historical justification. Cherry picked one might say, but here there is no ethical ground to demand otherwise. The part that seems odd is where lack of diversity is interpreted as a political statement, rather than a reflection of a normal. This is projection by the writer imo, though ill admit it only comes through between the lines. That's the negative aspect of this criticism, it reduces some works to a failed opportunity to explore a specific topic... regardless of the tone.

Come to think of it, in relation to the Witcher, I think these topics of history vs fantasy were explored by Sapkowski himself in a book interview by an historian. The focus was not on ethnic minorities as I recall, but there were many questions about how much or how little the authorial choices were intended to parallel historical organized religion, or historical aspects of germanic-slavic relations. Hmmm the religion stuff was more for the Hussite trilogy I think...
Seeing white people in a story about Southafrican clan wars throusands of years ago would strike me as bollocks too, but I guess they'd like to see this because they see everything political and are not able to look at things from angles that have absolutely nothing to do with some kind of social or political agenda...
avatar
Shadowstalker16: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDXDrhVpCTA Harvard gives Anita a BJ.
There are REAL people suffering, and men and women in the Unicef fighting to make a REAL difference, and that scammer gets an award.

Well as someone who has been in Havard it is all hype, stupid spoiled rich kids club...except for their Medicine branch, mad respect there.
Post edited March 04, 2015 by MrESCTheEscapist