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StingingVelvet: Pretty much. I think realizing how the world is and taking precautions is something we should teach our daughters. That's the point of mentioning the prevention aspect women can keep in mind. It's not about "blame" really, it's about awareness.
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Rusty_Gunn: But that seems to be anti-feminist in that it requires responsibility of the individual instead of everyone else, the vocal section of Feminism seems to get it's power from perpetuating victimhood & fear of all outside of the group

& [url=http://www.nationalreview.com/article/386267/feminists-say-roofie-detecting-nail-polish-actually-also-rape-culture-katherine-timpf]"date-rape drug sensing" nailpolish
I think you're drastically misinterpreting. I have never seen feminists advocate women doing less. What I have seen them advocate - and what I agree with - is that men should do more to police creeps. Not laughing at sexist jokes. Not going along with getting a woman drunk/drugged. Basically just treating women decently.

I looked at both those links. I don't think they're saying anything different from me, which is this:

Putting women's defense solely on women is unrealistic and sexist. It's victim-blaming and lets men off the hook for self-control.

If someone is mugged, we talk about police enforcement and how to improve safety for everyone. If a man gets drunk and crashes a car, we talk about DUI laws, bar policies and Friends don't let friends drink and drive or similar slogans. If a woman gets drunk and is assaulted - it's her fault. She was asking for it. She should have been watching out better. Why didn't she learn self-defense? She shouldn't have been wearing that outfit, she looks like a whore, of course some guy took advantage. Why was she drinking in the first place, women should know better. You can see the difference between the common reactions very clearly - one reaction talks about systemic ways to keep people safe, the other says the victim deserved what she got. There's a similar issue with racism, I think the current term is 'walking while black'?

People need to learn to be upstanding moral beings and confront this sexist view that women are solely responsible when they're the victim of a crime. Our society currently commonly lets men off the hook for degrading or hurting women. Look up 'victim blaming' and 'slut shaming' if you want more info. The leaked Sony emails have a good example of this group blindness too - one male executive abused his secretaries for years and no one did anything even after official complaints.

Men need to do their part in making society safe for everybody and stand up when they see people being creeps, much like people of all colors need to stop tacitly agreeing with racism and start confronting the asses who perpetuate it. The creeps don't listen to women, because they don't see women as people worth listening too.
Post edited December 18, 2014 by HGiles
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HGiles: Snip
If a man gets drunk, has an accident, kills someone, he should be held responsible.
If a woman gets drunk, has an accident, kills someone, she should be held responsible.
If a man gets drunk, has bad luck where he walks, is mugged, he is both a victim and likely stupid.
If a woman gets drunk, has bad luck where she walks, is mugged, she is both a victim and likely stupid.

If a man or woman gets drunk, has bad luck with whom he/she encounters, is sexually assaulted, he/she is ... ;)

Question time:
Option A: just a victim.
Option B: both a victim and likely stupid.
Why is option B sexist? Inquiring minds would like to know.

Note: Zero points if answer assumes women should have less responsibility/agency than men.
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HGiles: Snip
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Brasas: If a man gets drunk, has an accident, kills someone, he should be held responsible.
If a woman gets drunk, has an accident, kills someone, she should be held responsible.
If a man gets drunk, has bad luck where he walks, is mugged, he is both a victim and likely stupid.
If a woman gets drunk, has bad luck where she walks, is mugged, she is both a victim and likely stupid.

If a man or woman gets drunk, has bad luck with whom he/she encounters, is sexually assaulted, he/she is ... ;)

Question time:
Option A: just a victim.
Option B: both a victim and likely stupid.
Why is option B sexist? Inquiring minds would like to know.

Note: Zero points if answer assumes women should have less responsibility/agency than men.
Both your answers are wrong. Right answer:

Option C: A victim who needs both support and education, and a reason to look at possible changes we can make to keep the same problem from happening again (this also goes for the getting-mugged scenario).

People making a mistake doesn't mean they're stupid. It means they're human, and made a mistake. It also doesn't mean they bear responsibility for what someone else did to them. The last part is what often gets lost in discussion of these issues. There is a long thread of blaming the victim in US/EU culture, and it gets even stronger when the victim is a woman or black. That's what people are objecting too.
Post edited December 18, 2014 by HGiles
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HGiles: snip
You didn't answer my question :)

Victims should be supported, obviously, goes without saying, so I didn't say it. We agree though.
Education? You mean so they're less stupid next time? 0_o Joking, joking... though I'm unsure why victims would need education...

As for mistakes and stupidity, I guess it depends on the mistake, don't you agree?
As for bearing partial responsibility for creating conditions that allowed/facilitated/enabled someone to harm them, well, I'm not ok to de-responsibilize them, neither to blame them for what happened. Most people do have difficulty separating those two, which is stupid either way: blame the victim = stupid, victim has zero power/responsibility = stupid.

Reality, so complex huh? Back to the question. Why is this sexist?
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noncompliantgame: Sarkaesian has not even temped to make any charges against anyone. Who are her alledged attackers. No on e knows, it's a mystery.
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Jonesy89: You mean the ones that the FBI (last I heard) was trying to find because noone knows who they are, thus requiring them to be tracked by law enforcement in order to be charged?
If that is so, let us hope that which ever agency is persuing this matter, they are able to expose the real parties responsible and appropriate measures are taken, whoever they are !
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noncompliantgame: Are you just sh*t stirring or are you one of the delusional, mentally ill college/university students who are under the dark thrall of some degenrate tenured "professor".
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HGiles: I think it's fairly clear who's 'sh*t stirring' in this conversation.
Can it then be presumed you are the latter?


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ScotchMonkey: "The Sassette Principle" or just another day in politics. Its all dirty stuff.
You need to send that salient bit of info to Aurini & Owen, it might help keep them on track as they make <span class="bold">"The Sarkeesian Effect"</span>. They're getting an A for effort at this stage and the poster looks cool enough, but one gets the impression they need a little morale boost right now ...

http://www.patreon.com/thesarkeesianeffect
Someone wrote a Z.Q. rape fan-fiction parody and everyone goes bonkers. Of course for the SJWs that's part of the routine, but what's disappointing is when GamerGaters do the same thing. In particular those who are all for Mercedes Carrera doing a porn parody of pegging Jonathan McIntosh.

Message from the author here:
http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2pt5f8/ama_i_wrote_the_gamergate_erotica_and_im_not_a/
Well written, meticulously fair and balanced critique of both <span class="bold">gamergate supporters</span> and <span class="bold">anti-gaming neo-feminists</span>


plus a few uncensored comments from the gallery (the views of the real people are always revealing)

QUOTE 1

I'm glad he is protecting his identity. SJW are dangerous people. Because they are small in number, they turn to anonymous backstabbing, for example:

- They will make up shit and call the cops/swat on you
- They will league with their corrupt friends in the journalism industry to destroy your or your product's reputation
- Desecrate your Wikipedia page and lock down others (No way am donating to Wikipedia ever)
- Claim that games do things to your mind based on their unscientific opinions (You have no free will people!)
- Get games off store shelves because "a man getting butchered by a woman" is acceptable but not the other way round!
- etc...

To the untrained eye, this may look like a random list but to other fellow GG supporters you know exactly what I'm talking about. SJW are despicable humanbeings.
QUOTE 2 (is a warning we should all note.)

SJWs arent small in number, especially in academia. They pose a huge threat to peoples professional & economic well being to anybody who speaks out against their ideology & agenda.
It is genuinely quite shocking that people providing constructive criticism of gaming " journalists" and neo-fems, for the benefit of the gaming community and for the benefit of the public at large, are now subjected to threat levels from neo-feminists, ex-gaming journalists and the ilk of Saekeassian and her horde of slavish neophyte worshippers, that they must hide their identity lest they and their families join the growing list of their victims.


edit: link error
Post edited December 20, 2014 by noncompliantgame
Last Co-optional podcast (TotalBiscuit, JessCox, Dodger and guest Force) had a little bit about corruption, review sites and mobile games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_6LSOYRVKw&amp;channel=TotalHalibut

The discussion about this started at 2 hours, 15 minutes 30 seconds. (Warning adult language) If you don't want to watch, review sites or youtube channels are approaching app developers and saying "if you pay us $$$$$ we will review your app on our site/channel." It was mentioned that this practise may be widespread.
Post edited December 21, 2014 by walpurgis8199
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walpurgis8199: review sites or youtube channels are approaching app developers and saying "if you pay us $$$$$ we will review your app on our site/channel." It was mentioned that this practise may be widespread.
That's nothing new, this practice has already been around for quite some time (according to some comments on Gamasutra, it could even go in the 4 digits number). Winter Wolves Games tweeted about it a few days ago:
https://twitter.com/pcmacgames/status/544907052536311809
Made my morning. Still can't stop laughing at the descriptions for some games: http://store.steampowered.com/curator/6954951-Feminist-Frequency/?appid=295790
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~~~Bumpita Bumpeesian~~~



<span class="bold">ANITA DOES IT AGAIN, AGAIN!</span>

Anita's anti Japanese racial hatred exposed!

Sarkeesian Effect producer tells all!!

Learn the whole shocking truth!!!


... & a Merry Xmas to all ... <@;^D+<
Oh come on, with all those donations you'd think the guy could afford a real shirt. Or a haircut. Of a shave. Or a gym membership. Or hire someone to tidy up his room so his background doesn't look worse than that of a TGWTG contributor.

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Shadowstalker16: ...
Funny, all the games on the list I know about I would recommend to stay as far away from as possible. None of those are actually good games, or even games to begin with. I really hope people buying into her shit try those games and get burned really hard so they see she has no interest in games, just personal profiteering.
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HiPhish: Funny, all the games on the list I know about I would recommend to stay as far away from as possible. None of those are actually good games, or even games to begin with. I really hope people buying into her shit try those games and get burned really hard so they see she has no interest in games, just personal profiteering.
What? 0_o I'll defend the ludic merit of Aquaria, Portal and Sword n Sworcery anytime... let alone artistic or narrative merit. Several other of those are in my backlog, and recognised almost universally as classic. Aren't you taking guilt by association a bit far?

Which ones have you played or know about?
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HiPhish: Oh come on, with all those donations you'd think the guy could afford a real shirt. Or a haircut. Of a shave. Or a gym membership. Or hire someone to tidy up his room so his background doesn't look worse than that of a TGWTG contributor.
In short: not looking like a basement nerd... ;)