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General discussionThe FCK DRM initiative(760 posts)(760 posts)
(760 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 21, 2018
DRM-free approach in games has been at the heart of GOG.COM from day one. We strongly believe that if you buy a game, it should be yours, and you can play it the way it’s convenient for you, and not how others want you to use it.

The landscape has changed since 2008, and today many people don’t realize what DRM even means. And still the DRM issue in games remains – you’re never sure when and why you can be blocked from accessing them. And it’s not only games that are affected, but your favourite books, music, movies and apps as well.

To help understand what DRM means, how it influences your games and other digital media, and what benefits come with DRM-free approach, we’re launching the FCK DRM initiative. The goal is to educate people and ignite a discussion about DRM. To learn more visit https://fckdrm.com, and share your opinions and stories about DRM and how it affects you.
Posted August 24, 2018
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Kevern_Zaksor: Alright, I read pages 1-4 and don't have the time to read 5-25 so take everything I say below with a grain of salt.

I like GOG and buy my games here more often than on Steam. Usually I'll only turn to Steam when it means saving a significant amount of money. I like the idea of DRM-free, especially since I grew up in the 90s when buying a game usually meant you owned it (especially on consoles). I still have all my old PC games on disk, including, for example, TES 3: Morrowind which I bought physically twice (once when it first released, then later when it was bundled with the expansions). Just a few days ago I bought it for a third time here on GOG.

Having said all that, I'm not horribly concerned about DRM. Here's why: (and can someone please tell me why I'm wrong)

1. I don't really give two shits about multiplayer, so in the future if I want to play a game, chances are almost 100% that it'll be single player.
2. If it's a game that's good enough for me to want to play years after its release, chances are other people will too and if Steam disappears and I can't get it through there I'll be able to download a cracked version somewhere.

I have no moral qualms whatsoever about downloading a pirated version of a game I already paid for, with certain exceptions of course. (for example, I paid for Chrono Trigger on PS1 ages ago, but wouldn't pirate the iOS or PC version because additional work had to go into porting it)

So given that I don't care at all about multiplayer games, can anyone tell me why I should be worried about my copy of whatever on Steam? If it goes away, I'll just pirate it and not in the least bit feel bad.
You're making assumptions.
First that it will even be there. Just a few days there were quite a few stories about Nintendo taking down sites that were hosting ROMs, many of which are unavailable for sale anywhere. And some of these game companies are more than willing to play whack-a-mole with DMCA filings to ensure that their games are unavailable.
Second, that it can even be made. Some of the nastier DRM nowadays has more and more placed on the servers. With some being played entirely on the servers, with the user's computer being little more than a display terminal.
Very easy to imagine that some of those games may be very difficult if not impossible to reverse-engineer.
(Personally for the games entirely on the server, I imagine they'll disappear the same as all the previous efforts, because the number of people with internet good enough to make such games playable is too small to make them profitable. Doesn't mean that the games won't disappear too.)
May not apply to today's Steam DRM, but what about their next version?

Frankly, I'd rather buy a legal DRM-free game from the get-go than have to worry about legalities, or fears of malware. And support the companies that support me.
Post edited August 24, 2018 by dadahl
Posted August 24, 2018
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Magmarock: I'd say its' easier to circumvent DRM with pirate software then it is to get the Linux working in an air-gaped system.
It's still possible. Also there is special distributions for usage without Internet, like EndlessOS on Endless Mini (there is even cache of popular Wikipedia articles out of the box). Unfortunately, your point of view is based not on logic and reason, it's simply not falsifiable. There is no argument or fact that can change your mind, so I asking myself what the point of this link to Endless Mini review or if I need to tell you debmirror CLI arguments, if you refuse to admit that you was wrong, anyway?
Posted August 24, 2018
high rated
Sorry if I don't subscribe to this, but it's a bit too vulgar for my taste and also I don't believe in GOG anymore. They did too much for pure marketing reasons lately and most of the changes were for the worst.

Regional prices, Galaxy bundled installers, publicly leaking private information of users. I don't think they can really be trusted anymore. This whole thing, apart from being a bit vulgar, looks like a marketing scam to me, much ado about nothing. There is hardly any information present and it's quite unclear what the goal really is, probably just some quick clicks.
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Mr.Caine: What a juvenile marketting stunt. But it's perfect for GOG's audience who only wants to be pandered to.
I think this summarizes it really very well.
Post edited August 24, 2018 by Trilarion
Posted August 24, 2018
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xyem: Why? To add to the list of things you are wrong about?
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Magmarock: circular logic at it's finest.
Do explain how this is circular logic.

M: There is no offline way to download packages and their dependencies.
X: Yes you can, you can mirror them to a local disk and point package manager to that mirror
M: Fine, then it isn't "practical". (admit to correction, change the requirements)
X: It's literally 2 commands. Plenty practical
M: But it requires a lot of disk space
X: You can mirror packages selectively so it doesn't take much room and disk space is cheap
M: There is no offline way to download packages and their dependencies (repeat of initial incorrect information)
M: But SSDs are smaller than HDDs (totally arbitrary requirement that it must be mirrored onto an SSD, ignores selective mirroring reducing space requirements)

You can buy 64GB USB sticks for ~15 GBP. That's plenty enough space for a full mirror of common packages and all their dependencies for any Linux distro. If not, a 500GB 2.5" portable HDD for ~30 GBP definitely is.

EDIT: Just in case anyone is wondering how I know "offline Linux repo" works fine, at my workplace I'm not allowed to connect my personal laptop to the network but I use it to aid my work, so it is air-gapped.
I install software on it all the time while at work (where it doesn't have an internet connection) using such a mirror.
It has (and only has) a 128GB SSD in it.
It works fine.
Post edited August 24, 2018 by xyem
Posted August 24, 2018
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Trilarion: Sorry if I don't subscribe to this, but it's a bit too vulgar for my taste and also I don't believe in GOG anymore. They did too much for pure marketing reasons lately and most of the changes were for the worst.
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Mr.Caine: What a juvenile marketting stunt. But it's perfect for GOG's audience who only wants to be pandered to.
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Trilarion: I think this summarizes it really very well.
+ 1 Yes it's vulgar. I'm disapointed by this kind of methods. Social medias, Youtube and ect... relies too much on this.

Seriously if DRM free is right just polish it like the jewel it should be, otherwise don't promote it this way... because it sounds like a desperate attempt to bring audience on GOG.

And by audience I mean the wrong one...

Instead of FCKDRM, WHY DRM FREE would have been way better. DRM is not a crime against humanity, people just don't read contracts. It's their fault. Also taking quotes from websites and general rules would have been much more interresting instead of the green and red check table. Even telling DRM history and give numbers about various aspects concerning gaming industry or DRM in general.

Seriously you can do better than that.

N.B: And if you want "to go loud" about DRM FREE, why not a release of the next Witcher only on GOG ?
Even Cyberpunk 2077 ! That would be something.
Post edited August 24, 2018 by DeadjackFr
Posted August 24, 2018
low rated
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xyem: ...
Let me break this down for you.

1. go to website

2. download exe

3. double click exe

4. Archive exe, for it work with all versions and future versions of Windows for years to come.

Linux

do this https://www.dropbox.com/s/hdaevjrrmslkera/Deb-Mint-Cin-18.2.sh?dl=0

References

you have any image to understand the "type of slurping" that you want, in which you can see Mag inside the mouth making a bulge?

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/13393511/

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/21101933/
Post edited August 28, 2018 by Magmarock
Posted August 24, 2018
I'd say the name of the movement completely fulfilled its purpose. All the haters of the FCK don't even realize how much they promote it by hating on it. Way to go GOG!!
And come on... it's 2018. If you are still offended/made uncomfortable by the word fuck, you probably overslept for a few decades. Especially on the internet.

And regarding the DRM, as long as single player is available whenever I want (which is true in GOG's case) I consider the game to be DRM free. You have to connect somewhere if you want to play multiplayer. Why does it matter if it's GOG's servers and not some random guy 285's server or dude 379's game?
Posted August 24, 2018
low rated
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Kevern_Zaksor: Alright, I read pages 1-4 and don't have the time to read 5-25 so take everything I say below with a grain of salt.

I like GOG and buy my games here more often than on Steam. Usually I'll only turn to Steam when it means saving a significant amount of money. I like the idea of DRM-free, especially since I grew up in the 90s when buying a game usually meant you owned it (especially on consoles). I still have all my old PC games on disk, including, for example, TES 3: Morrowind which I bought physically twice (once when it first released, then later when it was bundled with the expansions). Just a few days ago I bought it for a third time here on GOG.

Having said all that, I'm not horribly concerned about DRM. Here's why: (and can someone please tell me why I'm wrong)

1. I don't really give two shits about multiplayer, so in the future if I want to play a game, chances are almost 100% that it'll be single player.
2. If it's a game that's good enough for me to want to play years after its release, chances are other people will too and if Steam disappears and I can't get it through there I'll be able to download a cracked version somewhere.

I have no moral qualms whatsoever about downloading a pirated version of a game I already paid for, with certain exceptions of course. (for example, I paid for Chrono Trigger on PS1 ages ago, but wouldn't pirate the iOS or PC version because additional work had to go into porting it)

So given that I don't care at all about multiplayer games, can anyone tell me why I should be worried about my copy of whatever on Steam? If it goes away, I'll just pirate it and not in the least bit feel bad.
This argument is actually very fair. That being said I offer a few counter points to it.

1. You're first point does confuse since it's often singleplayer games that are hurt the most by DRM. DRM actually makes a little more sense in multiplayer games because it can also prevent cheating. apprenlty the mutliplayer is the reason Doom 2016 wasn't released here on gog. Which is a real shame because if they removed it and released only the singleplayer version of the game I'd still buy it.

2. Let me be 100% clear. I care not at all for copyright legislation. That being said pirate sources have quite a few weaknesses of their own. Sometimes they do contain viruses, other times they are taken down by the law or because Nintendo got butthurt and called the lawyers to bring the pain. Other times they can get taken down due to internal drama. DRM is like a really bad thread point for your games, as long as its’ not disturbed everything should be fine, but once it’s pulled, everything is destroyed.

A prime example of this is a little game called Second Sight. I bought here on gog and thank god I did because you can get it anywhere now. It’s also hard to find a pirate copy, it’s that obscure. However, thanks to me buying it when I did I will always have it. I can also share it with people which I have no problem doing because you can’t find it anywhere now. DRM free means the games because easier to archive and secure their existence for years to come.
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idbeholdME: I'd say the name of the movement completely fulfilled its purpose. All the haters of the FCK don't even realize how much they promote it by hating on it. Way to go GOG!!
And come on... it's 2018. If you are still offended/made uncomfortable by the word fuck, you probably overslept for a few decades. Especially on the internet.

And regarding the DRM, as long as single player is available whenever I want (which is true in GOG's case) I consider the game to be DRM free. You have to connect somewhere if you want to play multiplayer. Why does it matter if it's GOG's servers and not some random guy 285's server or dude 379's game?
I agree with everything here.
Post edited August 24, 2018 by Magmarock
Posted August 24, 2018
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idbeholdME: I'd say the name of the movement completely fulfilled its purpose. All the haters of the FCK don't even realize how much they promote it by hating on it. Way to go GOG!!
And come on... it's 2018. If you are still offended/made uncomfortable by the word fuck, you probably overslept for a few decades. Especially on the internet.

And regarding the DRM, as long as single player is available whenever I want (which is true in GOG's case) I consider the game to be DRM free. You have to connect somewhere if you want to play multiplayer. Why does it matter if it's GOG's servers and not some random guy 285's server or dude 379's game?
connect to a server is true ............ in the past i played on battlenet with d2 and i'm still okay ... so i don't see why all the crying everywhere....., before that a short time using the redalert 2 but that was matching it was not a real server , anyway you do have to connect somewehere.


As for the " offended/made uncomfortable by the word fuck," as you call it:
you'd be suprised how many easily offended people exist, tens of millions , maybe 100 miliions and maybe a billion or more.

Anyway usually its like a one way street: all the traffic comes from only one direction ,: hint: its not right nor center....
its the past of leaving behind....... :D fun part is they usally are quite wealthy and live good lives, seems a very easy live 'softens' people and makes them more vulnerable to crying and feeling hurt easily.

I dont want to play online servers . cause i had that in the past , it was fun in the past, today i only want to game by myself, local on my pc and sometimes play a small browsergame within a clan we joined ofcourse cause its more fun to play in a nice strong clan then by yourself.
Posted August 24, 2018
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idbeholdME: Why does it matter if it's GOG's servers and not some random guy 285's server or dude 379's game?
Because you can still do the last two if GOG's servers go down and/or the world dies off and you're in a bunker with the last two PC's in the world. The whole point is that some third party doesn't control your access to a gaming experience.
Posted August 24, 2018
How does multi-player fit in to the whole DRM debate? All your games MP features rapped into a single GOG log-in.

If you had a dispute with GOG and you've already downloaded your entire games collection, GOG could potentially turn off every online component of the games together. Before if you had a dispute with a publisher only 1 CD-key would be affected, not your entire collection.
Post edited August 24, 2018 by xbeanx3000
Posted August 24, 2018
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Trilarion: I don't believe in GOG anymore. They did too much for pure marketing reasons lately and most of the changes were for the worst.

Regional prices, Galaxy bundled installers, publicly leaking private information of users. I don't think they can really be trusted anymore. This whole thing, apart from being a bit vulgar, looks like a marketing scam to me, much ado about nothing. There is hardly any information present and it's quite unclear what the goal really is, probably just some quick clicks.
Can definitely agree with that as well. Still see any effort against DRM as a good thing, and therefore this as well from that perspective, as I already said, but yeah, not for GOG's sake in itself, but for that of the cause and the fact that they are its banner bearers when it comes to PC gaming.
Still waiting for Fireflower Games to be listed on that site though, since they said they tried to contact them at the listed address.

(As for the sort of user this stunt is aimed at, will say again that when, as you well pointed out, they gave up on all their other principles, it's no surprise that they'd do something aimed straight at those focused, maybe even single-mindedly, on the one they still adhere to... for now.)
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xbeanx3000: How does multi-player fit in to the whole DRM debate? All your games MP features rapped into a single GOG log-in.

If you had a dispute with GOG and you've already downloaded your entire games collection, GOG could potentially turn off every online component of the games together. Before if you had a dispute with a publisher only 1 CD-key would be affected, not your entire collection.
To be fair, GOG never did promise DRM free MP, and even some of their earliest releases required CD keys for online MP, which you had to request. But not sure what you mean about it affecting your entire collection... Would affect just those that require Galaxy for MP, which don't seem to be quite that many yet (depending on how up to date that list is).
Post edited August 24, 2018 by Cavalary
Posted August 24, 2018
Thanks for your reply, Cavalary.

I suppose it's about how many of your multi-player eggs are in one basket, and if that's good or bad.

A single company being the gate keeper for all your online play. Nothing to do with DRM? I suppose.
Post edited August 24, 2018 by xbeanx3000
Posted August 24, 2018
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Magmarock: Let me break this down for you.

1. go to website

2. download exe

3. double click exe

4. Archive exe, for it work with all versions and future versions of Windows for years to come.
Hahaha! Everyone who has experienced more than 1 version of Windows knows that isn't how it works. Sure, the executable is likely to run, but that doesn't mean it'll do anything useful.

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Magmarock: you have any image to understand the "type of slurping" that you want,
Which part of selective mirroring did you not understand?
Posted August 24, 2018
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idbeholdME: I'd say the name of the movement completely fulfilled its purpose. All the haters of the FCK don't even realize how much they promote it by hating on it. Way to go GOG!!
And come on... it's 2018. If you are still offended/made uncomfortable by the word fuck, you probably overslept for a few decades. Especially on the internet.

And regarding the DRM, as long as single player is available whenever I want (which is true in GOG's case) I consider the game to be DRM free. You have to connect somewhere if you want to play multiplayer. Why does it matter if it's GOG's servers and not some random guy 285's server or dude 379's game?
There's a rule in the ICANN (Internet Domain Names Authority) that prohibits profane domain names for websites that aren't porn sites. Not certain if the rule is still in effect, but it is similar to when John Oliver did the 'gofccyourself' bit that sent the mainstream media in a frenzy.

Multiplayer most commonly tends to have a server/client architecture because peer to peer only does not work for many types of games with many players. It would be wonderful if games would open up multiplayer to allow for privately-hosted servers and not lock it only to one service/platform. You'd have your 'official' and 'unofficial' servers. THAT is the type of multiplayer that I'd consider truly 'DRM-Free' and GoG putting the pressure on devs/publishers to do that on a curated storefront is a net postive for gaming.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionThe FCK DRM initiative(760 posts)(760 posts)
(760 posts)