Actually, the way I see it is that it's more like people are using the term "blue" to refer to what is clearly "red". In particular, I have seen the term "RPG" be used to refer to games that play nothing like RPGs. Watch a video of a typical boss fight in an Ys game. Does it look like an RPG boss? I would say no, since the player is constantly controlling the character to avoid contact with the boss's attacks; to me, that's not how an RPG plays.

One other thing: To me, growth systems are not a genre defining feature; otherwise, the term "RPG" would start to apply to games that nobody considers to fit in that genre, like Gradius (don't confuse it with a game like Gladius) and Castlevnia 1.

Genre definitions have to mean something, and when I see "RPG", I want it to be a game where I don't have to worry about things like timing and reflexes; it's the character's job, not the player's. To me, that is what distinguishes RPGs from other genres.

I would disagree. Dragon Wars plays a lot like Bard's Tale 3, and FF2 plays a lot like FF1. Sure, there are differences, but the basic flow of combat is pretty much the same.

Ys games, on the other hand, do not play like RPGs. As I mentioned, a typical Ys boss fight (for example) has far more in common with an action game boss than an RPG boss.

So, what is an RPG for you?

Amazing job. The file size itself explains the amount of work that has gone to it. I have read some of my favorite games with a smile on my face. Very well done!

I am amazed at the people who discuss the meaning of RPG. My personal opinion is, it is utter arrogance to give your own meaning to an Abbreviation that already involves its own description. ROLE PLAYING GAME. If you are allowed to play SOMEONE/ANYONE your way, then it is a role-playing game for me.

Super Mario Bross (the classic one with mushrooms) is NOT an RPG. You are controlling one character but you are not allowed to play YOUR WAY.

Diablo is an RPG. Because, even tho you do not have a say in how the story evolves, you are allowed to play the game with your own style.

I dare to say Heroes of Might and Magic (HoMM) IS an RPG hybrid since you are allowed to play a class and build that class your way.

Those are my own personal view of the subject and it is based on what the Abbreviation is. If you can assume a role and play the game that way, it is a role play. Of course, others can have their own personal opinions but I am losing it when someone describes the genre according to the BOSS fights.

Also, people should stop judging a work that took 4 damn years without even reading the list of the games. That's just....

One possible definition that I feel pretty comfortable with:

An RPG is a game where the player's role is to tell the character(s) what to do, and the outcome of such actions is based on the character's abilities, not the player's. Also, said game must not simulate a real sport (yes, this criterion may seem like it doesn't ft, but it's only there to avoid counting sports games as RPGs).

Note that this excludes games where the outcome of actions depends on the player's ability; it also happens to exclude games that don't have characters (but can anyone think of any character-less game that ought to be called an RPG?).

Actually, in a pure adventure game, the success of an action isn't dependent on either the player or the character; each possible action is scripted to either succeed or fail. In particular, there isn't any rule used to check for success; everything is a special case. Hence, such games don't actually count as RPGs by my definition, but they don't count as action games either.

It's interesting to note that some games that are classified as RPGs are actually RPG/Adventure hybrids; some of the Ultima games (4-7 at least) would qualify. Also, Quest for Glory has enough RPG elements to not be a pure adventure game and could also be an Adventure/RPG hybrid, despite being very different from Ultima 4.

1) I am well aware of your definition of RPG and I almost completely disagree with you. Will get back to you after I finish arguing about ontological nature of games with a friend. Unfortunately, that will take a lot of time.

2) Genre mixing has become so prevalent in recent years, that I find any arguing about it almost completely pointless. Unless of course you are a genre racist.

3) Despite point no. 2, action game was never a genre to begin with.

This definition includes most of the strategy games. You could fix that by specifying what "character" means, but even then there would be some problematic cases.

You're arguing religious. "I say God exist because my book says God exist, and my book is the only true book.".

Your favourite kind of RPG are fancy excel tables with some RANDOM(x, character_value) functions in them. That's fine, really. But please acknowledge that there are other games that don't work like that, and that are probably older than you are, and are still RPG - as the book proves. You mistake the stars reflected in a pond at night for the sky, really.

Gee, that's a very elitist view you have there, thinking that stats-based RPGs are the only true RPGs...

RPGs are a 40+ old genre that have multiple meanings and definitions. Choice wasn't a part of CRPGs until the late 80s/early 90s, but now they're a huge part of the genre. You have veterans like Josh Sawyer saying that Wizardry would't be an RPG by today's standards. You'll NEVER arrive at a definition that pleases everyone or fits every game. That's what makes it so interesting.

Dtgreen your opinion is yours alone, as proven by numerous posts countering your views
according to IGN who's been around 32 years reviewing entertainment for everyone this is the top 100 RPG's
Top 100

And even with those 32 years reviewing entertainment they completely disregard titles - like Gothic I and Gothic II - whose standards in regards to immersive gameplay or clever open-world design in RPGs are still unmatched until this day.

When RPG Codex member calls someone elitist, you know that someone is a bad news!

Just kidding, despite Codex having certain reputation, I respect it. Great book by the way!

Thanks for the ePub version, much appreciated.

Speaking of - any chance for an updated ePub version as well, before the book is taken offline sometime later this day?