Posted October 08, 2018
Breja
You're in my spot
Registered: Apr 2012
From Poland
Bad Hair Day
Find me in STEAM OT
Registered: Dec 2012
From Other
Posted October 08, 2018
I do like Lynch's movie, I just....well like you said, it's a beautiful grand mess. I really can't describe it any better.
BleepBl00p
New User
Registered: Oct 2018
From United States
Posted October 08, 2018
low rated
@misteryo Your whole point is trying to say that the game isnt all that bad, possibly even enjoyable. It still doesnt justify calling this a classic.
We should turn this around and instead of pointing flaws try to define the qualities (if there are any) that would make it a classic. This goes for the other games as well.
We should turn this around and instead of pointing flaws try to define the qualities (if there are any) that would make it a classic. This goes for the other games as well.
HereForTheBeer
Positive Patty
Registered: Oct 2009
From United States
Posted October 08, 2018
I've played three of those four, plus sequels. Still own three of them on disk from buying them new way-back-when, and have all four in my gOg library. The reason I liked DA:O has nothing to do with playing those other games, though familiarity with the Infinity Engine made it easier to get into the mechanics of this later game. Maybe it felt bland to some, but I came away with a different perception of the game. And would possibly feel differently about the others you object to, as well, regardless of what others think of them. That's why we play them: to enjoy them (or not) for ourselves.
One could argue that BG was flawed enough that many players feel that to enjoy it nowadays all-but-requires folding it into the later BG2 engine. Personally, that's a better use of the later updated engine - BG2 bored the daylights out of me, though I've read posts from many who call it the superior game.
Anyway, not trying to make a big deal out of this, that gOg has used the term as a marketing tool... I don't really see this as a problem, especially when it's mostly a matter of opinion. The term is thrown around so much in so many arenas (music, movies, TV, cars, architecture, furniture, etc., etc.) that trying to stake a firm claim on its meaning is somewhat futile. I can understand a personal feeling that something doesn't warrant the term, but it doesn't really mean that other people should not feel differently and use it even though you feel its undeserved.
xSinghx
Culture Industry
Registered: Oct 2014
From United States
Posted October 08, 2018
high rated
As for the rest of your complaint, GoG allows you to make your own list so maybe try that. Or just be grateful they had a sale and gave away free and cheap games before the typical Nov./Dec events.
Also you could use some help learnng the definitions of words like objective vs subjective.
Linko90
GOG Automated Bot
GOG.com Team
Registered: Jun 2018
From Poland
Posted October 08, 2018
high rated
Let's just clear a few things up:
People are getting angry at lists in a sale. I'm not sure why frankly, but I'm sure energy could be better spent arguing the finer reasons why these games are no contemporary classics, thus creating discussion.
'I don't like it, thus it has no merit' is not a fact, but an opinion. Let's remember this, as it seems to be fading away.
People are getting angry at lists in a sale. I'm not sure why frankly, but I'm sure energy could be better spent arguing the finer reasons why these games are no contemporary classics, thus creating discussion.
'I don't like it, thus it has no merit' is not a fact, but an opinion. Let's remember this, as it seems to be fading away.
idbeholdME
Doomed Space Marine
Registered: Jun 2016
From Czech Republic
Breja
You're in my spot
Registered: Apr 2012
From Poland
Posted October 08, 2018
Post edited October 08, 2018 by Breja
drewpants
New User
Registered: Sep 2010
From United Kingdom
Posted October 08, 2018
Well, thanks for your opinion Bleep, but cry as you might, it's not an objective fact. I really enjoyed Dragon Age and Doom 3. Now I have to deal with the fact that I'm just not critical enough.
I think I'll get by. Somehow.
I think I'll get by. Somehow.
BleepBl00p
New User
Registered: Oct 2018
From United States
Posted October 08, 2018
low rated
@HereForTheBeer I think you're missing the point. Actual classics all boast undeniable qualities, whether you enjoy them or not is up to you. Fallout, Arcanum, BG and PST all have these qualities. These games shine despite their flaws. Same couldnt be said of DAO.
It really seems like we arent arguing about the same thing here so I dont know what to reply. Your main argument is that enjoyment is subjective, but subjective enjoyment isnt what defines a classic.
@xSingh Your comment fails to demonstrate how DAO deserves being called a classic. It seems like people are unable to support their argument so they try to attack mine instead. Typical 'prove that you're right or you're wrong' comment here. Also a top 100 RPG list is bound to be a complete joke since there are so few good RPGs avail most of these lists get filled with games that either arent good or arent even RPGs.
As for Doom 3, you cant call a game a classic just because the devs made some tech improvements. That sound and lighting are nothing but gimmicks in a video game and pretty much everything else about the game sucks. Once again historically important =/= classic.
My complaint is more about GOG disrespecting its customers by promoting some of the worst games ever created as classics. I fear for our future as a society.
@Linko Its more like 'I enjoyed it years ago and now felt like replaying it, thus it is a classic' is not a fact, but an opinion. Let's remember this, as it seems to be fading away.
@idbeholdME Care to elaborate? I would say that its everyone else that is trying to dismiss objective flaws by calling them opinions. Everyone is trying to avoid delving into an objective and critical analysis in fear of being wrong. Its one of the main reason why games are getting worse, any form of criticism is an opinion.
@drewpants Its crazy how illiterate some native English speakers can be. I think you completely misread my post. DAO can be enjoyed, just like Mc Donalds can be enjoyed, but dont try to claim that DAO is some AAA Angus.
It really seems like we arent arguing about the same thing here so I dont know what to reply. Your main argument is that enjoyment is subjective, but subjective enjoyment isnt what defines a classic.
@xSingh Your comment fails to demonstrate how DAO deserves being called a classic. It seems like people are unable to support their argument so they try to attack mine instead. Typical 'prove that you're right or you're wrong' comment here. Also a top 100 RPG list is bound to be a complete joke since there are so few good RPGs avail most of these lists get filled with games that either arent good or arent even RPGs.
As for Doom 3, you cant call a game a classic just because the devs made some tech improvements. That sound and lighting are nothing but gimmicks in a video game and pretty much everything else about the game sucks. Once again historically important =/= classic.
My complaint is more about GOG disrespecting its customers by promoting some of the worst games ever created as classics. I fear for our future as a society.
@Linko Its more like 'I enjoyed it years ago and now felt like replaying it, thus it is a classic' is not a fact, but an opinion. Let's remember this, as it seems to be fading away.
@idbeholdME Care to elaborate? I would say that its everyone else that is trying to dismiss objective flaws by calling them opinions. Everyone is trying to avoid delving into an objective and critical analysis in fear of being wrong. Its one of the main reason why games are getting worse, any form of criticism is an opinion.
@drewpants Its crazy how illiterate some native English speakers can be. I think you completely misread my post. DAO can be enjoyed, just like Mc Donalds can be enjoyed, but dont try to claim that DAO is some AAA Angus.
Linko90
GOG Automated Bot
GOG.com Team
Registered: Jun 2018
From Poland
Posted October 08, 2018
high rated
It really seems like we arent arguing about the same thing here so I dont know what to reply. Your main argument is that enjoyment is subjective, but subjective enjoyment isnt what defines a classic.
@xSingh Your comment fails to demonstrate how DAO deserves being called a classic. It seems like people are unable to support their argument so they try to attack mine instead. Typical 'prove that you're right or you're wrong' comment here. Also a top 100 RPG list is bound to be a complete joke since there are so few good RPGs avail most of these lists get filled with games that either arent good or arent even RPGs.
As for Doom 3, you cant call a game a classic just because the devs made some tech improvements. That sound and lighting are nothing but gimmicks in a video game and pretty much everything else about the game sucks. Once again historically important =/= classic.
My complaint is more about GOG disrespecting its customers by promoting some of the worst games ever created as classics. I fear for our future as a society.
@Linko Its more like 'I enjoyed it years ago and now felt like replaying it, thus it is a classic' is not a fact, but an opinion. Let's remember this, as it seems to be fading away.
@idbeholdME Care to elaborate? I would say that its everyone else that is trying to dismiss objective flaws by calling them opinions. Everyone is trying to avoid delving into an objective and critical analysis in fear of being wrong. Its one of the main reason why games are getting worse, any form of criticism is an opinion.
@drewpants Its crazy how illiterate some native English speakers can be. I think you completely misread my post. DAO can be enjoyed, just like Mc Donalds can be enjoyed, but dont try to claim that DAO is some AAA Angus.
HereForTheBeer
Positive Patty
Registered: Oct 2009
From United States
Posted October 08, 2018
That's what bothered me, too. One might not like how Metacritic comes up with scores, but the site also links to each of the actual reviews that was used to generate the score. So these aren't just users like you and me, but sources that make a living off reviewing these things. Looking at DA:O, out of something like 67 reviews, all but one rated it 80% or higher, and most are right around 90%. That's a solid score based on the views of experienced critics.
----
The other games he mentions as being actual classics, they got good professional reviews and scores, too. And I certainly very much enjoyed Terraria. Whether any of these games will have the legs to make it to a recognized "classic" status is a matter that time will determine, though some of them do have around a decade behind them already. My personal feeling is that the design of DA:O will give it legs, at least in that the engine won't feel overly dated for a good long while. Terraria, too.
But one can look at some other old games that we have loved and now feel that time has not done them any favors. For example, I LOVE me some original Harpoon but the interface now is tough to swallow. Crusader is another game that suffers from time, as the controls were tough to use when released and just as tough today. Some people can get used to them and some can't. Just the way it is. That will make it difficult for many to lump it in with other true classics.
Or hey, MoO2 is usually considered the best of the Master of Orion series but I would personally place the original Master of Orion on a Classics list and leave off MoO2. The original had a certain charm and appeal for me while the follow-up felt more like working on a spreadsheet. Who is wrong? I like what I like, someone else likes what she likes.
----
The other games he mentions as being actual classics, they got good professional reviews and scores, too. And I certainly very much enjoyed Terraria. Whether any of these games will have the legs to make it to a recognized "classic" status is a matter that time will determine, though some of them do have around a decade behind them already. My personal feeling is that the design of DA:O will give it legs, at least in that the engine won't feel overly dated for a good long while. Terraria, too.
But one can look at some other old games that we have loved and now feel that time has not done them any favors. For example, I LOVE me some original Harpoon but the interface now is tough to swallow. Crusader is another game that suffers from time, as the controls were tough to use when released and just as tough today. Some people can get used to them and some can't. Just the way it is. That will make it difficult for many to lump it in with other true classics.
Or hey, MoO2 is usually considered the best of the Master of Orion series but I would personally place the original Master of Orion on a Classics list and leave off MoO2. The original had a certain charm and appeal for me while the follow-up felt more like working on a spreadsheet. Who is wrong? I like what I like, someone else likes what she likes.
paladin181
Cheese
Registered: Nov 2012
From United States
Posted October 08, 2018
By googling the definition
"judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind"
"a work of art of recognized and established value"
First it implies a certain level of quality, which the presented games certainly dont have.
Second it implies that ratings were given over a certain time frame, as in, not those earned by the early hype and popularity.
Games like PoE 2 are way too recent to be fitting in the second category. Even the verified buyer rating is no higher than 3.5 stars. PoE 1's writing is objectively flawed and full of bad English, like it was written by a high schooler and was criticized for that. The very first page of Kingdom Come is all negative.
As for other bad ratings, all the games I mentioned have some very negative critical reviews if you browse past the first page, and its not all related to compatibility issues or the GOG version.
xSinghx
Culture Industry
Registered: Oct 2014
From United States
Posted October 08, 2018
It's you that hasn't supported what you've said with anything more than your feelings - which is fine - you're allowed to feel however you want. It just doesn't merit respect by the rest of us given your pathetic anger directed at GoG and everyone else that doesn't share those 'feelings.'
Sorry both DoA and Witcher2 are well regarded by the public and press and I say that as someone who hasn't played either and isn't invested in how good they are to me personally. You obviously are.
Actually historically important is a metric for why something is a classic. There are plenty of 'classics' that are not necessarily enjoyable by today's standards but are relevant and 'classic,' purely on the bases of an innovation or way something was treated by them for the first time whether that's a video game, movie, book etc.
Again you just conflate your idiosyncratic feelings about what should be considered classic with the wider acceptance of the norms the term is used under..
Given the way you've expressed your complaint (and therefore all the down votes) you should be able to extrapolate, you're not winning many allies in your grievance.
Post edited October 08, 2018 by xSinghx
BleepBl00p
New User
Registered: Oct 2018
From United States