It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
delicieuxz: Because backing up hundreds, or even thousands of games, some of which are 50+ GB in size, isn't feasible for many people.
avatar
seppelfred: Ah, come on. External hard drives are not very expensive. If you can buy "thousands of games", you can afford it.
I've spent a lot of money on my PC and know that most people cannot spend that amount. I have 4TB of files on my PC, and multiple backups - but not many game backups. If I aimed to make backups of all my games, I've have to buy many more TB of storage for them, and then double it for a redundant backup.

And owning 1,000+ games isn't nearly as big of a financial feat as you seem to think it is, if a person has been collecting them in big sales, bundles, and giveaways since the advent of digital game retailers.
Post edited September 01, 2021 by delicieuxz
avatar
Glaucos: This is for the SNES ROM installer. DOS version was ~370MB.
avatar
Truth007: btw how do you know it's the snes rom?
Because I downloaded it and installed it.
avatar
delicieuxz: Because backing up hundreds, or even thousands of games, some of which are 50+ GB in size, isn't feasible for many people. And if you want your backups to be safe, you should have at least 2 copies of your backups, and store them in different places. That's costly for an individual, and sometimes people don't even have another place they can store a redundant backup in.
avatar
AB2012: It's understandable not everyone backs up everything due to capacity, but 15MB games like this are fairly small. Much smaller than the typical size of personal data everyone should generally get into the habit of backing up as well ("the cloud" may form one layer of backup, but "the cloud" is not a backup by itself).
The reason for backing things up is that people can't know whether a game will become unavailable from the download source in the future. They can't know whether it will be a 15 MB game or a 100 GB game that they'll need a backup of, so, they have to backup everything, including every 100+ GB game they have. One of the many games they might backup being 15 MB doesn't help alleviate the difficulty in backing up 100+ GB games.

avatar
delicieuxz: A part of the service that GoG provides is backup of people's games for them, while making the previous versions available.
avatar
AB2012: Unfortunately they don't make previous versions available anymore for offline installers. See the issues with Divinity Original Sin where the newest version has an unfixed bug and yet GOG repeatedly refuse to provide people with an older bug-free version. This is exactly why post-Galaxy GOG is really not a "backup" anymore...
I think that's something GoG's customers should pressure them to change. If they start deteriorating their service and principles in one area, it should be expected that it could happen to other areas, too.

avatar
delicieuxz: And if GoG every shut-down for any reason in the future (and I hope that doesn't happen), there would be an announcement of it which could then inform people that they need to download all the offline installers for their games. And the offline installers for all distinct presentations of their games should be available for them to do so at such a time.
avatar
AB2012: That's a lot of if's. If GOG ever shut down, they won't put in any effort for alternative presentations precisely because they'd be shutting down. And if they announced they'd be shutting down in 30 days time, and everyone suddenly tried to re-download everything, I doubt people would even get 20% of their catalogue downloaded due to massively overloading the server. See previous examples of Steam outages on Christmas Day caused by one single game, then multiply by days / weeks due to hundreds / thousands of games. Last minute "panic grabs" are not a wise backup policy at all.
That's basically only one if: If GoG shut-down. I think that GoG's finances are public information, due to being a publicly traded company. If they comes into a financial situation where the business is at risk, people should become aware of it by public reporting even if GoG didn't announce it, themselves. And so, people should have warning to take the measures they need to protect their games.

But I don't think GoG would shut-down without lengthy warning (and as I said, hopefully they never need to shut-down). It would be incompetence and irresponsibility if they suddenly realized they were going to close only 30 days before the fact, and if they failed to notify people before then. I also wonder if they could avoid legal consequences if they shut-down in an irresponsible manner like that.
Post edited September 01, 2021 by delicieuxz
avatar
Glaucos: Come on, I bought this game to play the DOS version. And now they removed it and put the SNES version in the offline installer instead?
avatar
Ice_Mage: Reportedly, the SNES version isn't downloadable as it leads to a 404 error.

They also kept "This game is powered by DOSBox" in the system requirements.

I hope I'm not overly optimistic thinking this is just an oversight that will be corrected.
SNES Version can be downloaded again. Just tested it.

Would prefer the old Doxbox version, too. :(
I'm guessing based on the message on the product page, both versions are supposed to be available:
Both SNES and DOS versions are now available. You can switch between them in GOG Galaxy. Go to 'Manage Installation' -> 'Configure' -> 'Beta Channels'
So, they'll need to just provide installers for the DOS version in the extras section or something. "Never attribute to malice..."
low rated
avatar
seppelfred: Ah, come on. External hard drives are not very expensive. If you can buy "thousands of games", you can afford it.
Depends how big you need.

I have total 7 TB reserved for my GOG offline installers (one 5TB drive and another 2TB drive, dividing the installers on them), and right now I am going beyond their storage space, ie. I should buy a third hard drive, or replace the 2TB drive with e.g. a 5TB drive, pushing the storage to 10TB total...

Having the installers divided to two (or more) HDDs complicates things somewhat when using e.g. gogrepoc.py, ie. I have to divide the gogrepo manifest file manually to two (or more) manifest files, and then run gogrepo twice on the two separate hard drives...

Sure it would be nice to keep all the installers on one big-ass HDD, but I don't think there are that big 2.5" USB-powered HDDs, and even if there was, it doesn't feel nice to retire the perfectly working 5TB and 2TB HDDs just because the collection can't fit into them, barely.

I have several older working 2TB 3.5" SATA HDDs in the closet, I guess I should take them into use and divide my GOG collection on them.

I still need to research how to make one big volume out of several (USB) HDDs, where I could always extend that volume simply by adding yet another hard drive to the mix... I know it can be done, both in Windows and Linux, but if you do it without any parity to maximize the storage space, then it is even more vulnerable than dividing the files to several separate hard drives manually, as losing one of the hard drives would make you lose the whole volume, ie. all your GOG game installers. Not just the ones which were on that specific hard drive.

Oh well, what would be life without some obstacles?
avatar
delicieuxz: But I don't think GoG would shut-down without lengthy warning (and as I said, hopefully they never need to shut-down). It would be incompetence and irresponsibility if they suddenly realized they were going to close only 30 days before the fact, and if they failed to notify people before then. I also wonder if they could avoid legal consequences if they shut-down in an irresponsible manner like that.
I hate to say it, but the exact reverse is likely to be true. If you know you're going to be insolvent in 30 days time, in most jurisdictions you need to stop trading immediately to preserve creditor's funds. Keeping the business running for 30 days (during which time you won't be making sales) just so that people can download files (which will cost the business money) would be considered to be grossly irresponsible in most Western countries. I'm not sure what the Polish law is on this, but in the UK, the Directors could be held personally liable for the costs.

Anyway, long story short, if you can, back-up your installers. If you can't, keep fingers crossed that things like this don't happen.
avatar
Truth007: You should back up your games immediately after purchase, I never understood why people don't.
avatar
delicieuxz: Because backing up hundreds, or even thousands of games, some of which are 50+ GB in size, isn't feasible for many people. And if you want your backups to be safe, you should have at least 2 copies of your backups (though, the saying is, "if your backup doesn't exist in 3 places, then it doesn't exist"), and store them in different places. That's costly for an individual, and sometimes people don't even have another place they can store a redundant backup in.

A part of the service that GoG provides is backup of people's games for them, while making the previous versions available. That security of posterity should be a dependable part of what GoG offers, and in their customers' minds, it is.

If GoG remain true to their philosophy of preserving good old games, then people should be covered by GoG's service. And if GoG every shut-down for any reason in the future (and I hope that doesn't happen), there would be an announcement of it which could then inform people that they need to download all the offline installers for their games. And the offline installers for all distinct presentations of their games should be available for them to do so at such a time.
DRM free means you buy it, own it, and are responsible for it. If you do not backup yourself, then you are in the same boat as any other store, except you pay more and have a limited catalog. GOG are not an archive site, they are not good old games, they are here to make money nothing more. They can switch off the servers now without any problems, only you will lose out, and it’s your responsibility! To note, they did turn off once before already.
If you can’t backup, then save yourself some money and just buy on steam, for most games you can buy keys at a fraction of the price
Again, GOg is not here to provide any service, the library is only there to allow download, they could turn it off any time. There is no security unless it is 100% under your control.
avatar
delicieuxz: The reason for backing things up is that people can't know whether a game will become unavailable from the download source in the future. They can't know whether it will be a 15 MB game or a 100 GB game that they'll need a backup of, so, they have to backup everything, including every 100+ GB game they have. One of the many games they might backup being 15 MB doesn't help alleviate the difficulty in backing up 100+ GB games.
That may well be the case (and many people do that simply because the average is often much less than the largest) but ultimately it's the whole point of buying here vs Steam. To borrow from a previous analogy, it's like going into a high street store, buying 100x DVD's then leaving them all in the store "because I don't have the room for a bookshelf at home" then complaining when they disappear if the store closes, or if the store replaces them with inferior versions. "Lack of room" may be an understandable justification but it then raises the question why bother buying DVD's at all just to leave them in the store vs subscribing to Netflix?...

avatar
delicieuxz: But I don't think GoG would shut-down without lengthy warning (and as I said, hopefully they never need to shut-down). It would be incompetence and irresponsibility if they suddenly realized they were going to close only 30 days before the fact, and if they failed to notify people before then. I also wonder if they could avoid legal consequences if they shut-down in an irresponsible manner like that.
As pds41 said, that's actually normal and at that stage external creditors are usually in charge not the people who passionately started the store. See the number of travel / holiday companies that went out of business without warning even to non-senior staff who worked there. GOG's user agreement (17.3) simply says "we will try to give you notice" not "we guarantee" so no legal comeback. Also, parent companies do not have to go out of business to change something about an unprofitable subsidiary. If CDPR remains profitable whilst GOG make increasing losses, it's entirely possible that CDPR may want to change something about GOG's core business model in future without going out of business, or even sell it off to others who have the capacity and will to run it as a loss-leader to gain more customers for their own stores (Epic Games, Microsoft, etc)). "Never say never".

At the end of the day no-one's forced to back anything up, but the ability to do so really is the entire Unique Selling Point of the store. And there's plenty of reasons to backup anyway other than store-closure (eg, to avoid classic versions being 'replaced' by remasters, avoid GTA-4 style forced removal of soundtracks due to expired licensing, keep an older more desired version of a 'evolving' game that's had unwanted gameplay changes added in a new patch in an era where GOG refuses to make older installers available, etc, none of which give you a nice long advance warning or lets you "rollback" offline installers to older versions).
avatar
delicieuxz: But I don't think GoG would shut-down without lengthy warning (and as I said, hopefully they never need to shut-down). It would be incompetence and irresponsibility if they suddenly realized they were going to close only 30 days before the fact, and if they failed to notify people before then. I also wonder if they could avoid legal consequences if they shut-down in an irresponsible manner like that.
avatar
pds41: I hate to say it, but the exact reverse is likely to be true. If you know you're going to be insolvent in 30 days time, in most jurisdictions you need to stop trading immediately to preserve creditor's funds. Keeping the business running for 30 days (during which time you won't be making sales) just so that people can download files (which will cost the business money) would be considered to be grossly irresponsible in most Western countries. I'm not sure what the Polish law is on this, but in the UK, the Directors could be held personally liable for the costs.

Anyway, long story short, if you can, back-up your installers. If you can't, keep fingers crossed that things like this don't happen.
Good points, but "fortunately" we have some real life examples how the closures of digital gaming stores go: Desura and DotEmu.

It seems in both cases, or at least DotEmu, they were able to offer some kind of grace period for their customers to download their games, but maybe this was possible because they made the decision to stop operation of the store, before going full bankrupt. So at least in DotEmu's case they had already thought about pulling the plug for a longer time, and then made the final decision. The company is still around apparently (www.dotemu.com is certainly online), but their store is not.

I think that is how it would probably go with GOG as well in such a imaginary situation, ie. the parent company would decide to close the store to cut their losses or something, long before the parent company would be on a verge of bankruptcy.

However, that still does not mean there wouldn't be issues then if "everyone" rushed in to download all their games. While I didn't have a Desure account myself, I recall reading here as well about how hard it was to download one's games from the service at that point, probably the servers were overloaded.

With DotEmu I don't recall such issues, but frankly I think that is because DotEmu didn't have much of active users at that point anyway, and not that many games to download... I also had a handful of games there, but most of them I also had on GOG as well. I still downloaded them, and sure there were a few games there that were not available on GOG at least back then.
avatar
pds41: I hate to say it, but the exact reverse is likely to be true. If you know you're going to be insolvent in 30 days time, in most jurisdictions you need to stop trading immediately to preserve creditor's funds. Keeping the business running for 30 days (during which time you won't be making sales) just so that people can download files (which will cost the business money) would be considered to be grossly irresponsible in most Western countries. I'm not sure what the Polish law is on this, but in the UK, the Directors could be held personally liable for the costs.

Anyway, long story short, if you can, back-up your installers. If you can't, keep fingers crossed that things like this don't happen.
avatar
timppu: Good points, but "fortunately" we have some real life examples how the closures of digital gaming stores go: Desura and DotEmu.

It seems in both cases, or at least DotEmu, they were able to offer some kind of grace period for their customers to download their games, but maybe this was possible because they made the decision to stop operation of the store, before going full bankrupt. So at least in DotEmu's case they had already thought about pulling the plug for a longer time, and then made the final decision. The company is still around apparently (www.dotemu.com is certainly online), but their store is not.

I think that is how it would probably go with GOG as well in such a imaginary situation, ie. the parent company would decide to close the store to cut their losses or something, long before the parent company would be on a verge of bankruptcy.

However, that still does not mean there wouldn't be issues then if "everyone" rushed in to download all their games. While I didn't have a Desure account myself, I recall reading here as well about how hard it was to download one's games from the service at that point, probably the servers were overloaded.

With DotEmu I don't recall such issues, but frankly I think that is because DotEmu didn't have much of active users at that point anyway, and not that many games to download... I also had a handful of games there, but most of them I also had on GOG as well. I still downloaded them, and sure there were a few games there that were not available on GOG at least back then.
Maybe it is useful to mention that GOG explicitly mentions in their terms of use what they would do in case of a permanent shut down (notify every user via e-mail at least 60 days in advance).
avatar
delicieuxz: ...though, the saying is, "if your backup doesn't exist in 3 places, then it doesn't exist"...
Why did I read that? My life will never be the same anymore.
avatar
InSaintMonoxide: Maybe it is useful to mention that GOG explicitly mentions in their terms of use what they would do in case of a permanent shut down (notify every user via e-mail at least 60 days in advance).
That does make it slightly more likely that there will be some notice (but as timppu says - there will be a lot of people trying to download a lot in that time - will it fall over?)

However, let's say GoG don't give notice if it happens because CDP goes bankrupt.

What can anyone do? Take them to court? Perhaps, but then you're in the wonderful world of insolvency law. I'm going to base this on UK Insolvency Law as I don't know the Polish equivalent, so take the below with a big pinch of salt, and as just one example of what could happen.

I'm not an expert in Polish laws, but if it was the UK, you might win in court. This won't be clear until months down the line, and the court isn't likely to issue an injunction to turn the servers back on. So, you're more likely to win some compensation. This all sounds good, until you discover that the compensation is an unsecured debt of the company. This means that you get nothing until the secured debt has been repaid (things like bank loans etc). Realistically, you'll get a couple of pennies in the pound for any compensation.

Just to be clear, I see no evidence that there's an immediate risk of close-down/insolvency - CDP is in good financial shape, especially after the release of Cyberpunk last year. However, I remember the 2010 fake site shutdown, and was annoyed enough at the time that I had bought a game the week before that I hadn't downloaded yet. With a much larger library today, I would be raging.

Once bitten, twice shy.
avatar
InSaintMonoxide: Maybe it is useful to mention that GOG explicitly mentions in their terms of use what they would do in case of a permanent shut down (notify every user via e-mail at least 60 days in advance).
avatar
pds41: That does make it slightly more likely that there will be some notice (but as timppu says - there will be a lot of people trying to download a lot in that time - will it fall over?)

However, let's say GoG don't give notice if it happens because CDP goes bankrupt.

What can anyone do? Take them to court? Perhaps, but then you're in the wonderful world of insolvency law. I'm going to base this on UK Insolvency Law as I don't know the Polish equivalent, so take the below with a big pinch of salt, and as just one example of what could happen.
Why would anyone do anything? People who are actually interested in backing up their library should already have it backed up (because why wouldn't you?). I don't understand why someone who cares so much about their game collection that they would sue a company for shutting down their servers prematurely wouldn't actually bother backing anything up after purchase. It doesn't make logical sense to me.
avatar
delicieuxz: But I don't think GoG would shut-down without lengthy warning (and as I said, hopefully they never need to shut-down). It would be incompetence and irresponsibility if they suddenly realized they were going to close only 30 days before the fact, and if they failed to notify people before then. I also wonder if they could avoid legal consequences if they shut-down in an irresponsible manner like that.
avatar
pds41: I hate to say it, but the exact reverse is likely to be true. If you know you're going to be insolvent in 30 days time, in most jurisdictions you need to stop trading immediately to preserve creditor's funds. Keeping the business running for 30 days (during which time you won't be making sales) just so that people can download files (which will cost the business money) would be considered to be grossly irresponsible in most Western countries. I'm not sure what the Polish law is on this, but in the UK, the Directors could be held personally liable for the costs.

Anyway, long story short, if you can, back-up your installers. If you can't, keep fingers crossed that things like this don't happen.
Remember Telltale?
I can still download the games I bought from them from their homepage.
It IS legal to offer that service even after you went bankrupt.

But your suggestion is a good one anyway.