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General discussionstop witcher 3 piracy(125 posts)(125 posts)
(125 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 13, 2015
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Tolya: Except you can't measure any of it, because no two games are the same, no two same games sell the same. Therefore it is impossible to throw a number of alleged illegal downloads and say that something/someone has failed.
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ET3D: I feel that you can still have statistically meaningful results. Compare percentages, compare to games of similar categories, that kind of thing. It won't be conclusive, but there should still be something to be gleaned from that.
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DanTheKraut: the publishers/devs taking a big part in why people pirate stuff.
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ET3D: Most of what you say just boils down to "we're not willing to pay the price". Bugged games is a pretty stupid reason, unless the bugs happen to be a result of the DRM. "No demo versions" is the only reason I feel has some validity.
Demos have lost some of their validity since the age of freely available gameplay streams and reviews. You can get a pretty good picture of the game from one.
Posted May 13, 2015
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Tolya: To say it is a failure you would need to take into account how much money was spent on creating/implementing a DRM system. And establish that a DRM free game is more likely to be pirated. Then see if the surplus of illegal downloads offsets the costs of DRM.

Show me those numbers.
Not to mention sales lost due to people refusing to buy the game because of the DRM.
Posted May 13, 2015
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Tolya: To say it is a failure you would need to take into account how much money was spent on creating/implementing a DRM system. And establish that a DRM free game is more likely to be pirated. Then see if the surplus of illegal downloads offsets the costs of DRM.

Show me those numbers.
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jamyskis: Not to mention sales lost due to people refusing to buy the game because of the DRM.
I don't think that the group is large enough to be meaningful in any way.
Posted May 13, 2015
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Tolya: I don't think that the group is large enough to be meaningful in any way.
It's obviously difficult to say for sure in the absence of empirical data, but anecdotal evidence at least suggests that the decline of PC gaming here in Germany (overtaken by PlayStation in 2012; PC had held the majority market share since the early 1990s) has been due to DRM. I can at the very least confirm that it's decimated the LAN party culture here.
Posted May 13, 2015
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Tolya: I don't think that the group is large enough to be meaningful in any way.
It would seem to me that since DRM-free is one of GOG's founding core principles, it must be significant enough to make a difference. Otherwise, what's the point of having that as a core principle of the business?
Posted May 13, 2015
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ET3D: By suggesting that publishers drop DRM once the game has a good cracked version available I'm try to suggest an option that could sound reasonable to publishers without having to convince them that DRM is totally worthless, something that would be rather hard to do.
You do realize that removing/droping an already implemented DRM costs money?
So why would they remove it if it's even more pricier? ;)
Posted May 13, 2015
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mobutu: You do realize that removing/droping an already implemented DRM costs money?
You do realise that selling a game at GOG will likely make a lot more money than the cost of removing DRM?
Posted May 13, 2015
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ET3D: I feel that you can still have statistically meaningful results. Compare percentages, compare to games of similar categories, that kind of thing. It won't be conclusive, but there should still be something to be gleaned from that.

Most of what you say just boils down to "we're not willing to pay the price". Bugged games is a pretty stupid reason, unless the bugs happen to be a result of the DRM. "No demo versions" is the only reason I feel has some validity.
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Tolya: Demos have lost some of their validity since the age of freely available gameplay streams and reviews. You can get a pretty good picture of the game from one.
I personal like to test stuff myself. I don't trust streams and reviews because they can be faked or money is paid to make sh*t look better.
Posted May 13, 2015
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mechmouse: Too long. Digital Distribution allow publishers to sell in a world where they are the main factor in controlling price. The normal factors of Supply and demand, depreciation and used media stop the natural fall in the price of goods.

Steam, and to an extent GoG, are selling games at a much higher value than their new and sealed physical counterparts.

GTA V had 4 days between release and full hacked version being available via torrent. And while those first couple of weeks are the key selling period, I have severe doubt that in those 4 days would be pirates would decide to pay up rather than wait.
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johnnygoging: wtf are you saying? Steam has been fantastic for leveraging the advantages of digital distribution in lowering prices on games. Have you heard of the Steam sale? It's only recently that the publishers have been showing real greed in expecting physical prices for digital.
Steam sales are used to stimulate the economy. 10 days a year a product my be cheap. for the rest of the year the prices are inflated.

From what I remember looking up.

CIV5 £20 on steam. £10 for a disk
Bulletstorm £14 on steam. £8 on disk
Call of Duty World at War: £20 on Steam , £10 on disk

Do it right now. Find games that are older than two years, that are not on sale. Compare the price to what you could get the same game on physical media.
Posted May 13, 2015
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Senteria: there is no graphic downgrade. I really hate that word and it pisses me off. Everything prior to game release is a work in progress and subject to change. It does not reflect the full product, but apparantly people forget this. Only if you receive the game and your graphics get worse by a future patch, you can speak about downgrade.
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johnnygoging: wat?

so it's not willfully misleading then? that what is 2 years old is of seemingly higher quality than what is current? even if you don't think there is any intentional misinformation going on, it doesn't strike you as odd at all that the stuff from years ago surpasses the stuff now?

personally, I don't care about the graphical downgrade. while I lament the loss of the higher options for those who have the hardware to run it fine, I think perhaps that alongside those asset lod tweaks and shader configuration number reductions were tweaks and optimizations to the rendering engine that make it more agreeable to being run well with weaker hardware, so that some people who might not have had the ability to run the game before at acceptable framerates now can. the downside to that is that in this build of the engine it now may no longer be capable of reaching the detail level it once did. I don't know. we'll see what the modders can do once the game comes out. so while my personal preference is to have the game more accessible to people and I'm fine with a graphical reduction, others who aren't do a valid gripe when CDPRED already made something look a certain way for a certain takeaway from doing that.

this vertical slice madness needs to stop.
How do u know that with DSR Ultra HairWorks and ubersamplling the level of in game footage from 2013 is not achivable ?
U might be suprised on that one :D
Post edited May 13, 2015 by danteszzz
Posted May 13, 2015
but when they are cheap! what a deal!
Posted May 13, 2015
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johnnygoging: wtf are you saying? Steam has been fantastic for leveraging the advantages of digital distribution in lowering prices on games. Have you heard of the Steam sale? It's only recently that the publishers have been showing real greed in expecting physical prices for digital.
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mechmouse: Steam sales are used to stimulate the economy. 10 days a year a product my be cheap. for the rest of the year the prices are inflated.

From what I remember looking up.

CIV5 £20 on steam. £10 for a disk
Bulletstorm £14 on steam. £8 on disk
Call of Duty World at War: £20 on Steam , £10 on disk

Do it right now. Find games that are older than two years, that are not on sale. Compare the price to what you could get the same game on physical media.
I also don't doubt that companies don't keep the prices high on digital versions because they know people will wait till a 60 to 75% off sale to buy it so by keeping the price high they can still net more then they would putting it at a lower price point, another factor is retail. Many stores want the digital version to be as high or higher then the retail version and will flat out refuse to carry a game if it's lower, it's one of the reasons why consoles have such a hard time moving to a primarily digital distrubution model since unlike PC which moved to Digital mostly out of necessity as most shops stopped carrying PC titles outside of a small handful of games, Consoles haven't had that issue so it seems they are stuck in this loop.
Post edited May 13, 2015 by DCT
Posted May 13, 2015
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mobutu: You do realize that removing/droping an already implemented DRM costs money?
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ET3D: You do realise that selling a game at GOG will likely make a lot more money than the cost of removing DRM?
I do, the problem is the devs/publishers don't. They believe they lose money by "opening up to piracy" (despite the fact that their games are already pirated and were pirated long before).
Yep, they are that stupid ;)
Posted May 13, 2015
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ET3D: You do realise that selling a game at GOG will likely make a lot more money than the cost of removing DRM?
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mobutu: I do, the problem is the devs/publishers don't. They believe they lose money by "opening up to piracy" (despite the fact that their games are already pirated and were pirated long before).
Yep, they are that stupid ;)
No, I don't think they're that stupid. Well, yes, to an extent, but I see quite often people making assumptions of big corporations which just don't hold true. Like for example that Disney buying LucasArts means that we're unlikely to ever see LucasArts games here.

The point is, when you come to someone and say "you think DRM works because you're stupid, so stop that" I think it's likely to be less effective than saying "I understand that DRM may be helpful for you, but after you've made the bulk of sales and it's already pirated, why not remove that DRM and get some more sales from that?"

Now, I'm sure it's not that easy to convince publishers, or GOG would have a lot more here, but I still think that when it comes to gamers who want DRM-free contacting publishers, it's worth finding an angle that makes them think you're reasonable rather than a fanatic.
Posted May 13, 2015
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ET3D: You do realise that selling a game at GOG will likely make a lot more money than the cost of removing DRM?
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mobutu: I do, the problem is the devs/publishers don't. They believe they lose money by "opening up to piracy" (despite the fact that their games are already pirated and were pirated long before).
Yep, they are that stupid ;)
Of course they are, most large companies are helmed by complete idiots. I always half-joked that large companies don't run on normal logic but the bastardized idiot cousin of it "Business Logic" which we know as stupidity.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussionstop witcher 3 piracy(125 posts)(125 posts)
(125 posts)