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General discussionsteam's "play anywhere" vs gog's "drm-free"(59 posts)(59 posts)
(59 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 02, 2019
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moobot83: valve/steam are to greedy, they will never offer DRM free style games like GOG does
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Pheace: Lol, there's been DRM-Free games on Steam for over a decade or so. It's entirely up to the developer, hence why Witcher for instance is DRM-Free, even on Steam.
Here's the reality: those games can be, and ARE, made DRMed without the user knowing. As one example, Final Fantasy X/X-2, which I notice is no longer on the user-generated list of games that can be made DRM-free on Scheme. By the way, many of those games will try to launch the Scheme client or require other workarounds, at least as stated by the lists online. And yes, user-generated, because the store can't be bothered to mark this (it would be slightly more noble if they at least tried, like Humble).

For a user to know without any doubt that a game they want is still able to be DRM-free on there, they would have to contact the developer and/or publisher. It goes to show that DRM-free is not at all a focus and is pushed as far out of the spotlight as possible. The GOG Galaxy pushing over on this site has nothing on their approach over there. This doesn't even get into all Scheme has done to create, reinforce, and perpetuate a shroud of DRM over PC gaming, aided by the media and braindead masses, to the point that people equate PC gaming with Scheme itself.

If Scheme cared even an iota about DRM-free, they would REMOVE all Scheme-specific DRM from all their games and pull off any non-compliant games where the developers and publishers wouldn't agree to this new term. That is to say, the only DRM the developer would be able to choose would be their own NON-Schemebased DRM, such as an additional proprietary client like Ubisoft U-Rent or EA O-rent-gin. Of course this will never happen since tying everyone into the Scheme system via DRM and proprietary workshop, is the lifeblood of their business.
Posted December 02, 2019
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f1e: Can you say that in German?
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Randalator: Wenn ist das Nunstück git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
Are you trying to kill us all?
Posted December 02, 2019
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Pheace: You also don't lose access to your games if you get banned on Steam community or something and I've seen one legit case of gameban by Steam over the last 5 years or so and that was a guy who worked very, very hard for it.
They might be easier on this now, I don't know.

Back in the day there were several people I know who bought for instance Manhunt 2 (boxed copy) in the UK and tried to play it in Germany. Turned out they couldn't - because even if you managed to buy the game, in Germany Steam won't allow to play it. Those people then tried to use VPN to mask their German IP addresses. Some of them were "caught" and lost their account. That's why many Germans with games like that (which require VPN to work) made a Steam account for each and every of those games, so when that one is busted they don't lose the whole library.
I do understand why Steam would come after VPN users: it allows for cheating regional pricing. However in this case people simply tried to play a game which they legally obtained - at full price right after release.

So I don't know if Steam is still rigorously banning VPN users like that. Manhunt 2 was released in 2009 so it's an old story. Still, for me one reason to not touch that store with a 10 foot pole...
Posted January 14, 2020
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Starkrun: I'm going to win this argument very easily here, please read this closely:

Subscriber Agreement

The Content and Services are licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Content and Services. To make use of the Content and Services, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet.
...
Valve may terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that is illegal, constitutes a Cheat, or otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers. You acknowledge that Valve is not required to provide you notice before terminating your Subscription(s) and/or Account.
...
TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, NEITHER VALVE NOR ITS AFFILIATES GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE CONTENT AND SERVICES, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTION(S) OR ANY INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION THEREWITH.
...
YOU AND VALVE AGREE TO RESOLVE ALL DISPUTES AND CLAIMS BETWEEN US IN INDIVIDUAL BINDING ARBITRATION. THAT INCLUDES, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, ANY CLAIMS ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO: (i) ANY ASPECT OF THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN US; (ii) THIS AGREEMENT; OR (iii) YOUR USE OF STEAM, YOUR ACCOUNT, HARDWARE OR THE CONTENT AND SERVICES. IT APPLIES REGARDLESS OF WHETHER SUCH CLAIMS ARE BASED IN CONTRACT, TORT, STATUTE, FRAUD, UNFAIR COMPETITION, MISREPRESENTATION OR ANY OTHER LEGAL THEORY, AND INCLUDES ALL CLAIMS BROUGHT ON BEHALF OF ANOTHER PARTY.
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Starkrun: See the highlights, see the rest? you don't own anything, they can ban you, disable your account. That means loose access to everything and you already gave up your ability to go to trial to get it back, even monetarily reimbursing you.

Need more? all you need to do is violate just 1 of these in any subsection of the Steam Online Conduct rules and you're done.

As a Steam subscriber you agree to abide by the following conduct rules.

You will not:

-Upload, or otherwise make available, files that contain images, photographs, software or other material protected by intellectual property laws, including, by way of example, and not as limitation, copyright or trademark laws (or by rights of privacy or publicity) unless you own or control the rights thereto or have received all necessary consents to do the same.
-Use any material or information, including images or photographs, via Steam in any manner that infringes any copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret, or other proprietary right of any party.
-Upload files that contain viruses, trojan horses, worms, or any other similar software or programs that may damage the operation of another's computer or property of another.
-Institute attacks upon a Steam server or otherwise disrupt Steam.
-Use Steam in connection with surveys, contests, pyramid schemes, chain letters, junk email, spamming or any duplicative or unsolicited messages (commercial or otherwise).
-Defame, abuse, harass, stalk, threaten or otherwise violate the legal rights (such as rights of privacy and publicity) of others.
-Restrict or inhibit any other user from using and enjoying Steam services, software or other content.
-Harvest or otherwise collect information about others, including e-mail addresses.
-Create a false identity for the purpose of misleading others.
-Violate any applicable laws or regulations.
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Starkrun: So what sounds better, all that or: Download these games, if the publisher says we cant sell them, we will host them forever anyways. Hey go ahead and archive them too, oh and we provide support for you free of change for a game that we never developed.
basically proving my point that u dnt own nothing on steam, so steam is basically just an overpriced rental service i predict a netflix style service for pc games to compete with steam, i know specific companys do this like EA allowing access to all there games for a monthly fee and i think thats far better than paying a full price for agame you dnt even own
Posted January 14, 2020
I can't stand this 'everything has to be connected to everything else' crap, I don't want my stuff to constantly be trying to communicate with everything else and I sure as hell don't care about Steam's glorified rental services.

Streamed games can eat shit and die.
Posted January 14, 2020
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moobot83: valve/steam are to greedy, they will never offer DRM free style games like GOG does
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Pheace: Lol, there's been DRM-Free games on Steam for over a decade or so. It's entirely up to the developer, hence why Witcher for instance is DRM-Free, even on Steam.

You also don't lose access to your games if you get banned on Steam community or something and I've seen one legit case of gameban by Steam over the last 5 years or so and that was a guy who worked very, very hard for it.

There's enough to legitimately criticize Steam over, why bother with all this nonsense?
love how you say YOUR games like you own them your obviously a very dumb person cos you never even read the EULA of steam and someone posted it in this very thread which totally debunks what you are saying
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ReynardFox: I can't stand this 'everything has to be connected to everything else' crap, I don't want my stuff to constantly be trying to communicate with everything else and I sure as hell don't care about Steam's glorified rental services.

Streamed games can eat shit and die.
agree its like you download an app like twitch desktop app you can connect your steam,facebook,youtube,bnet,riot games accounts to it, its just a less intrusive way of companys selling your data cos these companys will often sy you need to connect your accounts to twitch to recieve some sort of r eward etc
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moobot83: valve/steam are to greedy, they will never offer DRM free style games like GOG does
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Pheace: Lol, there's been DRM-Free games on Steam for over a decade or so. It's entirely up to the developer, hence why Witcher for instance is DRM-Free, even on Steam.

You also don't lose access to your games if you get banned on Steam community or something and I've seen one legit case of gameban by Steam over the last 5 years or so and that was a guy who worked very, very hard for it.

There's enough to legitimately criticize Steam over, why bother with all this nonsense?
DRM means u can download the game to your pc without any need of a launcher or external software for it to run, even these so called DRM free games need steam to run, GOG has a launcher also but its not required to play your games, GOG is true DRM free what steam has is not DRM free at all-
Post edited January 14, 2020 by moobot83
Posted January 14, 2020
It's funny, I can't imagine playing games anywhere other than my "game place," which for me is my desktop PC. For others it might be their console. Still the point is when I'm out and about, or on vacation, I don't want to game. I want to do whatever I'm out doing. Same for movies and phones or whatever else. There's literally never been a time where I was like "man I wish I could play my video games here in Florida while visiting my parents" or whatever. Not once.

To each their own, though.
Posted January 14, 2020
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moobot83: love how you say YOUR games like you own them your obviously a very dumb person cos you never even read the EULA of steam and someone posted it in this very thread which totally debunks what you are saying
Ahh, 'love how you' make something up and then refute it, good skills ;)

Either way, you don't own games, neither on Steam nor GOG. On GOG you don't own them any more, you control them more. That's something else entirely from 'owning' them.

even these so called DRM free games need steam to run
No they don't but why inform yourself right ;)
Post edited January 14, 2020 by Pheace
Posted January 14, 2020
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f1e: What feels freer to you?
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ConsulCaesar: Knowing that offline installers are mine to keep forever; that is, on GOG, you buy it, you own it.
I seriously hope Valve offers a skeleton-key patch or a thumbs up to the noCD Fix
when they go down

For many of us though, even when Steam finally bites the turd...there's no way anyone is going to be able to download and backup 5k + count of games
Post edited January 14, 2020 by carnival73
Posted January 14, 2020
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ConsulCaesar: Knowing that offline installers are mine to keep forever; that is, on GOG, you buy it, you own it.
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carnival73: I seriously hope Valve offers a skeleton-key patch or a thumbs up to the noCD Fix
when they go down

For many of us though, even when Steam finally bites the turd...there's no way anyone is going to be able to download and backup 5k + count of games
Valve cannot, and will not be able to un-DRM games they don't own. There would be lawsuits up the ass from greedy publishers.

All Valve could ever do is remove CEG from their own games, they won't be able to force it on the other publishers, that'd be as idiotic and implausible as Superman 4's "I'm gonna get rid of all nukes, whether or not the various governments want to or not' plot.
Posted January 14, 2020
To answer the original question: GOG's DRM free is free as in freedom. Steam generally isn't.

As a Linux user, I find the question of GOG vs. Steam a little more difficult.

On the one hand you've got a curated list of DRM-free games, some of which support Linux, and a vague promise of someday maybe getting the Galaxy client on Linux, but at this point, I'm not sure which will come first: Half Life 3 or Galaxy on Linux.

On the other hand, you've got a company activitly supporting Linux, actively supporting Linux projects outside of Steam, but selling DRM-laden products, with a crappy client-needed model (mostly).

The struggle is real.
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carnival73: I seriously hope Valve offers a skeleton-key patch or a thumbs up to the noCD Fix
when they go down

For many of us though, even when Steam finally bites the turd...there's no way anyone is going to be able to download and backup 5k + count of games
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ReynardFox: Valve cannot, and will not be able to un-DRM games they don't own. There would be lawsuits up the ass from greedy publishers.

All Valve could ever do is remove CEG from their own games, they won't be able to force it on the other publishers, that'd be as idiotic and implausible as Superman 4's "I'm gonna get rid of all nukes, whether or not the various governments want to or not' plot.
Valve generally doesn't use CEG in their own games. I can't speak to the entire library, but certainly the Half Life series run just fine without the client.

This is one of the great irony's of Valve. They provide the platform that brings DRM to the masses, but don't DRM their own games.
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Post edited January 14, 2020 by hummer010
Posted January 14, 2020
For me it's DRM-free or go home.
Posted January 14, 2020
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hummer010: As a Linux user, I find the question of GOG vs. Steam a little more difficult...
I guess this is just "hearsay" but I thought I read in another topic GOG doesn't have much Linux-specific staff. Hopefully other users could provide more detail.
Posted January 16, 2020
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moobot83: basically proving my point that u dnt own nothing on steam, so steam is basically just an overpriced rental service i predict a netflix style service for pc games to compete with steam, i know specific companys do this like EA allowing access to all there games for a monthly fee and i think thats far better than paying a full price for agame you dnt even own
PSnow, XBOX pass, Windows, Uplay, Apple Arcade, Google Play, EA Access, Origin Access, Utomik, and lesser known others are netflix style already... Stadia from Google is going to try and stream a game to you with a promise of no input lag. you dont even see the files you just see a streamed copy you interact with.

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hummer010: As a Linux user, I find the question of GOG vs. Steam a little more difficult...
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rjbuffchix: I guess this is just "hearsay" but I thought I read in another topic GOG doesn't have much Linux-specific staff. Hopefully other users could provide more detail.
Steam on Linux is a silver bullet for games... there are certain technologies that allow games not designed or Linux at all to just WORK and work so well, so beautifully, its a damn crime! Proton is insane, and makes Steam a must have platform for Linux gamers.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionsteam's "play anywhere" vs gog's "drm-free"(59 posts)(59 posts)
(59 posts)