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General discussionSteam Workshop now allowing to sell mods(751 posts)(751 posts)
(751 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 26, 2015
Welcome to the DRMfication of the modding scene. ^_^
Posted April 26, 2015
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Senteria: Welcome to the DRMfication of the modding scene. ^_^
Yes, many women and children wept. And many pockets were filled.
Posted April 26, 2015
I thought a bit about it and combined one or two developments and now I'm waiting for the first pre-order mod, maybe followed by mod DLCs or season-passes for mods. But the next thing might also be Steam exclusive mods. Not sure what will come first.
Posted April 26, 2015
It's socialism vs. capitalism all the way again.

All free (especcially the OpenSourced) community based content is highly socialist, be it mods, decensoring patches, language patches, inofficial updates (like in Gothic 3, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines, etc...), emulators and game engine recreations (DosBox, ScummVM, KeeperFX, Doomsday) etc.. while DLCs, DRM, sold mods etc... are the exact opposite.
I'm rather donating to the first group and actually do so sometimes, I just donated a bit for the Linux and Windows port of Albion which is already finished and working well for quite a while and have donated for other stuff in the past, like a really polished and performant PSX-emulator for the OpenPandora, etc...

I think this development is quite interesting and I'm often amazed that socialist ideals (real ones, not this pseudo shit like in the UdSSR or the modern equivalents) are actually getting stronger thanks to the internet and the few boundaries while some companies are trying the other route even harder every year and have similar success.
Post edited April 26, 2015 by Klumpen0815
Posted April 27, 2015
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DCT: oh brother.

Honestly this whole thing reeks of a cash grab I mean come on a 70% percent split to Valve who does fuck all? They didn't make the game nor the mods but they get a large chunk of the profits? to hell with that and please don't give me the whole "oh they host the content" BS it costs them very little to host the mods.

Honestly Valve should of A. never done something like this or B. make it like a patron type thing where people could optionally decide to kick some money towards the modders and if Valve wanted take a small percent of that and kick some to the actual people who made the damn game in the first place.

So much for all the fanboys cries of "well Monopolies can be a good thing" ..ah well if Valve was smart, which they obviously don't seem to be they would really start to tread carefully and not do anything this stupid for awhile because they only got to where they are based on the good will they gained from gamers and if they keep pissing them off they will go elsewhere and the more they keep doing stupid crap they more people will leave. History is full of examples of this, hell Cable TV is becoming a fairly recent example if trends continue.
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ashtonx: Actually valve takes 30 bethesda takes 45% though that's a rumor.
But yeah cashgrab, i'm guessing some people felt butthurt after the saw falskaar and thought 'shit we could've milked this'
Ahh that would make more sense, I thought it was weird that Valve would of been able to pull that kind of stunt without Zenimax/Bethseda seeing a cut of the profits unless Valve had something in their deal with Bethesda were such a stunt could occur but that would still risk a lengthy legal battle against them and piss off alot of big name publishers with their greedy shareholders who only care about making more money as quickly as possible even if it means cutting their noses off to spite their face and ends up hurting them in the end.
Posted April 27, 2015
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I don't know why people are so shocked. In fact I'm surprised that it took so long for Valve to do a thing like this.

Me and friend had a talk, some 2 years ago, in which we predicted that, sooner or later, Valve will start charging their clients $ for playing hours. Imagine paying 5$ for playing 5 hours on Steam.
Think it's a ridiculous idea? Then give them some time.

Wild capitalism + monopoly will sooner or later turn things into a huge mess. In fact, the entire concept of DRM has always been an abomination and an insult to consumer's rights.

But I'm not even bothering to comment on such issues.
Posted April 27, 2015
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Trilarion: I thought a bit about it and combined one or two developments and now I'm waiting for the first pre-order mod, maybe followed by mod DLCs or season-passes for mods. But the next thing might also be Steam exclusive mods. Not sure what will come first.
Well, we already have Steam exclusive mods, at least the ones that were taken down from the Nexus so that you can only get them via the Steam Workshop. So I guess they're way ahead of you. :P

It's actually kind of morbidly fascinating just how quickly mod sellers adopted some of the worst practices in the gaming industry. Not that it's surprising; even in the case of Kickstarters and Early Access games, some developers proved themselves to be just as shady and underhanded as some of the worst publishers. But even in those cases, it took a while before such examples surfaced. Here, this program has just barely started and we're seeing the negative consequences of it right off the bat.

It'd be funny to see if the end result of all this wasn't so tragic and detrimental.
Posted April 27, 2015
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Pheace: What exclusive distribution rights? The guy can distribute his stuff all he wants. He can't however tell Valve to not give the mod to the people Chesko already sold the mod to through Valve.
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Screamshield: He sold them stolen goods.
Exactly. Valve's entire business model with paid mods is to sell copyrighted material without the consent of the copyright holder.

Coming from the leader in DRM, the irony is off the charts.
Posted April 27, 2015
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Trilarion: I thought a bit about it and combined one or two developments and now I'm waiting for the first pre-order mod, maybe followed by mod DLCs or season-passes for mods. But the next thing might also be Steam exclusive mods. Not sure what will come first.
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Gandos: Well, we already have Steam exclusive mods, at least the ones that were taken down from the Nexus so that you can only get them via the Steam Workshop. So I guess they're way ahead of you. :P

It's actually kind of morbidly fascinating just how quickly mod sellers adopted some of the worst practices in the gaming industry. Not that it's surprising; even in the case of Kickstarters and Early Access games, some developers proved themselves to be just as shady and underhanded as some of the worst publishers. But even in those cases, it took a while before such examples surfaced. Here, this program has just barely started and we're seeing the negative consequences of it right off the bat.

It'd be funny to see if the end result of all this wasn't so tragic and detrimental.
Lots of that shady stuff is already appearing. Midas Magic free had a 5% chance of displaying an advertisement. And, the paid mods are already being pirated. Paid mods, Ads in mods, pirated mods interesting stuff.
Posted April 27, 2015
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mkess: No it's not. For exlusive dirstribution rights you have to pay for the work.
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Pheace: He can't however tell Valve to not give the mod to the people Chesko already sold the mod to through Valve.
Yes, he can, if it uses his copyrighted material he can do exactly that every bit as much as Sony/ Universal/ BMI/ whoever could if a Rihanna song had been added as a soundtrack. Valve has, and is continuing to infringe his copyright by offering it for download, even to (actually, it is worse because it is to) people who have paid for it already. The only reason they're doing so is because they don't want to refund purchasers, they can do it technically and they have an absolute obligation to do so legally- every bit as much as I would if I put Skyrim up for download for $5 without seeking the approval of its copyright holder.

That is exactly the same thing Kim Dotcom/ Megaupload is accused of doing, profiting off copyrighted materials. It's worse than plain piracy because they are making money off of it and refusing a proper response. Of course, as a multi billion dollar company they can probably get away with it due to lawyers and lobbyists if necessary- and because they're pirating off people who do it for nothing and don't have a MPAA/ RIAA equivalent- but it is copyright infringement and if told to remove it they have an absolute, absolute, obligation to do so.
Posted April 27, 2015
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Phasmid: Yes, he can, if it uses his copyrighted material he can do exactly that every bit as much as Sony/ Universal/ BMI/ whoever could if a Rihanna song had been added as a soundtrack. Valve has, and is continuing to infringe his copyright by offering it for download, even to (actually, it is worse because it is to) people who have paid for it already. The only reason they're doing so is because they don't want to refund purchasers, they can do it technically and they have an absolute obligation to do so legally- every bit as much as I would if I put Skyrim up for download for $5 without seeking the approval of its copyright holder.

That is exactly the same thing Kim Dotcom/ Megaupload is accused of doing, profiting off copyrighted materials. It's worse than plain piracy because they are making money off of it and refusing a proper response. Of course, as a multi billion dollar company they can probably get away with it due to lawyers and lobbyists if necessary- and because they're pirating off people who do it for nothing and don't have a MPAA/ RIAA equivalent- but it is copyright infringement and if told to remove it they have an absolute, absolute, obligation to do so.
IF we actually kept our IP then yes, you would definitely be right. However we give them unlimited rights to screw us over. As usual Valve is defending itself by making us sign off our right to breathe oxygen, just in case they need it.

They can do it because of the TOS/subscriber license that gives them pretty much modder's IP and the right to sell it with no compensation even. If people were reading and paying attention to what they agreed on, they'd find out just how retarded the terms are (myself included).
Posted April 27, 2015
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Pheace: He can't however tell Valve to not give the mod to the people Chesko already sold the mod to through Valve.
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Phasmid: Yes, he can, if it uses his copyrighted material he can do exactly that every bit as much as Sony/ Universal/ BMI/ whoever could if a Rihanna song had been added as a soundtrack. Valve has, and is continuing to infringe his copyright by offering it for download, even to (actually, it is worse because it is to) people who have paid for it already. The only reason they're doing so is because they don't want to refund purchasers, they can do it technically and they have an absolute obligation to do so legally- every bit as much as I would if I put Skyrim up for download for $5 without seeking the approval of its copyright holder.

That is exactly the same thing Kim Dotcom/ Megaupload is accused of doing, profiting off copyrighted materials. It's worse than plain piracy because they are making money off of it and refusing a proper response. Of course, as a multi billion dollar company they can probably get away with it due to lawyers and lobbyists if necessary- and because they're pirating off people who do it for nothing and don't have a MPAA/ RIAA equivalent- but it is copyright infringement and if told to remove it they have an absolute, absolute, obligation to do so.
What are you even talking about. If anything Chesko isn't the one to have anything infringed on here. He opted to sell his mod through Steam. He can't then, after doing so, get iffy and try to pull it back from the people he already sold it to. And this is talking about the part of it that was clearly created by him, the part he was arguing he's supposed to have the right to do anything with, including withdrawing it. Perhaps he should've bothered to read the Eula before he entered into this deal? Same thing as he probably shouldn't have started selling a mod that wasn't entirely his creation without contacting a lawyer which they even recommended him to do?

Now Fore, he may have an argument for getting Valve to pull the content if he issues a DMCA, but he hasn't as far as we know. In fact, Chesko choose to pull the mod himself after discussing it with Fore. So as far as Valve knows, the modder is just pulling out and is trying to pull out more than he agreed to (knowingly or unknowingly).

Here's what he should've read before he sold his mod
You may, in your sole discretion, choose to remove a Workshop Contribution from the applicable Workshop pages. If you do so, Valve will no longer have the right to use, distribute, transmit, communicate, publicly display or publicly perform the Workshop Contribution, except that (a) Valve may continue to exercise these rights for any Workshop Contribution that is accepted for distribution in-game or distributed in a manner that allows it to be used in-game, and (b) your removal will not affect the rights of any Subscriber who has already obtained access to a copy of the Workshop Contribution.
Post edited April 27, 2015 by Pheace
Posted April 27, 2015
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Gnostic: Welcome, the first time I see people from my country of birth is joining GoG.

Selamat Datang. Harap anda menikmati dengan suasana di sini.
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cw8: I don't think he's the first.
And I thought you're from SG, lol
Salam sejahtera :)

To be fair, I live near the Malaysian Singapore border....Near JB...I am actually quite excited to see Malaysians or Singaporeans here to be honest....Most of us usually just stick to playing DoTA 2 and/or CS...

Also folks, capitalism is not at fault, monopoly is...What we need to do is break Valve's monopoly on PC gaming and Bethesda's monopoly on RPG modding...If they did not have the monopoly they have right now, they would not dream of pulling this stunt...

To this end...GOG Galaxy and RedKit will be useful...
Post edited April 27, 2015 by Tishen-13
Posted April 27, 2015
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DeathDiciple: They can do it because of the TOS/subscriber license that gives them pretty much modder's IP and the right to sell it with no compensation even.
Where does it say they can sell it?
Posted April 27, 2015
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Pheace: Where does it say they can sell it?
Bits from subscriber agreement, Section 6

You grant Valve and its affiliates the worldwide, non-exclusive, right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, transcode, translate, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and publicly perform, your User Generated Content, and derivative works of your User Generated Content, in connection with the operation and promotion of the Steam site.
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Valve is the sole owner of the derivative works created by Valve from your Content, and is therefore entitled to grant licenses on these derivative works.
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In some cases, Workshop Contributions may be considered for incorporation by Valve or a third-party developer into a game or into a Subscription Marketplace.
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Workshop Contributions are Subscriptions, and therefore you agree that any Subscriber receiving distribution of your Workshop Contribution will have the same rights to use your Workshop Contribution (and will be subject to the same restrictions) as are set out in this Agreement for any other Subscriptions.
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Except where otherwise provided in App-Specific Terms, you agree that Valve’s consideration of your Workshop Contribution is your full compensation, and you are not entitled to any other rights or compensation in connection with the rights granted to Valve and to other Subscribers.
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So if they take all derivative works of the mod, they can incorporate them into marketplace.

Valve is the sole owner or derivatives, "you agree that any Subscriber receiving distribution of your Workshop Contribution will have the same rights to use your Workshop Contribution (and will be subject to the same restrictions) as are set out in this Agreement for any other Subscriptions.", so whatever you may have stated in your license is nil if it collides.
Post edited April 27, 2015 by DeathDiciple
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionSteam Workshop now allowing to sell mods(751 posts)(751 posts)
(751 posts)