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General discussionSteam now offers refunds, and I'm out of a job(472 posts)(472 posts)
(472 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 02, 2015
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Fenixp: It's more work to purchase a title and then ask for refund than just to pirate it. I wouldn't worry too much.
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jefequeso: I don't ever underestimate the ignorant desire of certain people to "stick it to the man" when they find a loophole. And in this situation, I'm "the man."
"The man" is never the Developer of the game. It is the publisher and the desire to "stick it to the man" comes when people feel they are being abused/tricked/taken advantage of/been lied upon etc.
People are always sympathetic to lone-programmers and small indie developers that have direct communication with them. Even outright protective to them. Because, in the eyes of those people, these are the ones that "stick it to the man", which is the huge gaming industry that attempts to force games to styles of play they dislike, by controlling the production.

I say that you have nothing to fear, if the games you sell are reasonably priced and you do not make people feel cheated with the price they pay.

Now, what makes you think that, just because steam says it, people will feel safer to buy games? I do not think anyone really trusts Steam Customer Support, even when they do not have to pay back money, even more if they are to ask for a refund...
Post edited June 02, 2015 by ThunderGr
Posted June 02, 2015
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Acriz: Are there any conditions regarding implementing cards? Or are you free to do so whenever you like?
I can do so whenever I like. Steam just has to review the cards first.

I actually just went and changed the drop rates for my games (Spoiler: The Music Machine will be getting its first series of trading cards soon). Previously they dropped every 5 minutes in The Moon Sliver, now they drop every 15 minutes. So at least someone looking to card farm won't be able to do the "buy farm cards return" thing.

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jefequeso: I don't ever underestimate the ignorant desire of certain people to "stick it to the man" when they find a loophole. And in this situation, I'm "the man."
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ThunderGr: "The man" is never the Developer of the game. It is the publisher and the desire to "stick it to the man" comes when people feel they are being abused/tricked/taken advantage of/been lied upon etc.
People are always sympathetic to lone-programmers and small indie developers that have direct communication with them. Even outright protective to them. Because, in the eyes of those people, these are the ones that "stick it to the man", which is the huge gaming industry that attempts to force games to styles of play they dislike, by controlling the production.

I say that you have nothing to fear, if the games you sell are reasonably priced and you do not make people feel cheated with the price they pay.
You might be right. I have had people accuse me of just trying to make a quick buck, and even one guy who fet "scammed" because one of my games didn't work with his AZERTY keyboard (which I hadn't even heard of before that).

I think there will still be a few people that will get grim satisfaction out of screwing devs like me over, simply because we have games on Steam that they don't think deserve to be there. But still, my statement was probably a bit of an hyperbole.
Post edited June 02, 2015 by jefequeso
Posted June 02, 2015
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jefequeso: Uh oh.

Steam now offers refunds: http://www.destructoid.com/steam-now-offers-full-refunds-for-any-reason-293176.phtml

Provided you have only owned the game for 2 weeks and have less than 2 hours of playtime. Which sounds fair, right?

Well, currently I make my living off of story-focused games that are under 2 hours. They can be completed in one sitting, easily. So now anyone can purchase one of my games, play it, and return it for a full refund. Effectively meaning that my two games are now free to play, and I'm probably out of a job.
I'm with you on this one as I'm just working on a small arcade game for shorth length gameplay sessions (aimed for speedruns in fact). So yeah when I just saw the 2 hour thing, I immediately thought about the abuse of "binge gamers". In fact, lots of arcade games like shmups would be concerned by this.... And "experience" based games are fucked too.... Oh whatever, I'm gonna drink a bottle of whisky to forget that and keep doing my stuff.... :(
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MikeMaximus: That sucks. I noticed that the developer has control over what dlc is refundable, maybe you can get around this by making your games as a single product with each story being dlc.
Oh yeah on "DLC" : what about soundtracks? If it's refundable, it's easy to copy the music files and then getting a refund.... I'm grabbing a second bottle of whisky.... :(
Post edited June 02, 2015 by catpower1980
Posted June 02, 2015
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jefequeso: You might be right. I have had people accuse me of just trying to make a quick buck, and even one guy who fet "scammed" because one of my games didn't work with his AZERTY keyboard (which I hadn't even heard of before that).

I think there will still be a few people that will get grim satisfaction out of screwing devs like me over, simply because we have games on Steam that they don't think deserve to be there. But still, my statement was probably a bit of an hyperbole.
The guy that could not get the game working, would be right to ask for a refund don't you think so?
People that feel your games do not worth being on...anywhere...will not buy them or want to play them in the first place.
People that enjoy your games, will never think to cheat about it, by asking a refund for something reasonably priced. Now, if your games are expected to give 2 hours of gameplay and you promise 10...I think that would cause quite a frustration. It is all about giving people as much as they expect *or more*(better more than less).

I have a grunge against Goldhawk because they lured me into buying their game in Early Access with false advertizing(promising features they discarded in the process) and their attitude towards their customers *that had supported them in Early access* and criticized them for that, was very bad.
Even though I feel they have screwed me and stole my money, all I wished was to be refunded or, even, allowed to gift that game to anyone that would want it, so that I do not see it again, ever and, of course, I will never again buy anything from that company.

I think that, if you have not been worried about losing customers(which is the real problem) before, you have no need to fear about thieves(because those people you describe, are ill-willed people that want to steal the payment for your work).
Post edited June 02, 2015 by ThunderGr
Posted June 02, 2015
mmm
as the games become shorter as time goes by you can easily finish any full Price game in less than 2 weeks.
Posted June 02, 2015
there always possibilities being cheated on any kind of business. im running my own small food stall whom offering free tea refill and there always one two guys who abusing it (ordering some cheap snack with lot of extra refill), but guess what even counting that is all end up good because is only attract more straight consumer. honestly speaking you should trust your self your product are quallity enough and try to have more positive outlook that the policy might attract people to trying something new and stick with your product hey is better that none at all if they really that dick they already looking up on piratebay anyway
Posted June 02, 2015
See how it goes, and if it doesn't work out, just get a job at McDonald's.
Posted June 02, 2015
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Fenixp: That does, however, bring up a fairly interesting question - how are the refunds issued? Does Steam withold finances from you for 14 days after every purchase? Does Valve just suck up the expences?
I don't think I have the steam contract on this computer but the key thing I rememeber is that you're only getting paid one month after and it's logical because it's to cover the possible credit card frauds within the 30 days legal limit.
Posted June 02, 2015
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jefequeso: Well, currently I make my living off of story-focused games that are under 2 hours. They can be completed in one sitting, easily. So now anyone can purchase one of my games, play it, and return it for a full refund. Effectively meaning that my two games are now free to play, and I'm probably out of a job.
Rest assured that I for one will not be returning any of your games - or anyone else's, for that matter - unless they are actually broken or absurdly sucky. I think most people will respond the same way, actually. The vocal yappy awful ones will probably make such problems seem worse than I hope they actually are.

And I really need to get to Moon Sliver, one of these days - haven't bought the other one yet, but I will soon.
Posted June 02, 2015
maybe you will be able to ask 1 refund per month, that way you need to make it count
Posted June 02, 2015
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jefequeso: The one is $3, and the other is $6. However, both have stories that are intended to be experienced multiple times to fully appreciate, and both have gotten mostly positive reviews from players (in fact, on a Steam I did last night the hosts were amazed that I was only charging $6 for my latest game, saying it would easily be worth more). It's not like I'm trying to get $30 a copy from them, I just want to get some reimbursement for the time and effort I put in.
Links?
Posted June 02, 2015
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ThunderGr: The guy that could not get the game working, would be right to ask for a refund don't you think so?
Sure. Although in his case he decided instead to "call me out" on the forums and write a negative review, and never actually respond to me trying to get more information about his issue. So... :P

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Fenixp: That does, however, bring up a fairly interesting question - how are the refunds issued? Does Steam withold finances from you for 14 days after every purchase? Does Valve just suck up the expences?
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catpower1980: I don't think I have the steam contract on this computer but the key thing I rememeber is that you're only getting paid one month after and it's logical because it's to cover the possible credit card frauds within the 30 days legal limit.
Basically yeah. I'm just not sure what I am allowed to talk about, since their so weirdly secretive about everything.
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jefequeso: The one is $3, and the other is $6. However, both have stories that are intended to be experienced multiple times to fully appreciate, and both have gotten mostly positive reviews from players (in fact, on a Steam I did last night the hosts were amazed that I was only charging $6 for my latest game, saying it would easily be worth more). It's not like I'm trying to get $30 a copy from them, I just want to get some reimbursement for the time and effort I put in.
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mrkgnao: Links?
http://store.steampowered.com/app/329830/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/359040
Post edited June 02, 2015 by jefequeso
Posted June 02, 2015
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Ganni1987: Bad idea, someone could just buy the game, play it with a crack which bypasses Steam tracking time and then ask for a refund in less than 2 weeks.

Who the hell gets such ideas, I know they don't expect people to do such things but it's exactly what happens.
Simply using Steam offline disables the time tracking. No cracks needed. But the people who are going to abuse the system in this way won't likely be able to do it too often before Valve catches on. And aside from that, I suspect the majority of people won't bother being assholes. It'd be less hassle, and less prone to blocking your account from future legitimate refund requests to just pirate a game you want to play more than 2 hours or 2 weeks and not pay for.
Posted June 02, 2015
EDITED :o)
Post edited June 02, 2015 by catpower1980
Posted June 02, 2015
Just a fyi, if you didn't buy the game directly from steam, they wont refund you, eg. If you bought it from Humble or GMG.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionSteam now offers refunds, and I'm out of a job(472 posts)(472 posts)
(472 posts)